My son is being tested...

[Scruit]

i'm assuming scruit posted this with some (if only small) measure of pride that his son performed admirably, and for showing some signs that is son may excel in the field of counter surveillance, and at the very least, ducking poop cams in seedy english bathrooms. i'm sure he didn't admonish his son too harshly for not telling him about the gun.

all in all, i saw this as a "proud dad" post.

it should also be known that any time there is an opportunity to post about secretly filming people pooping, i will do so. i think it's a little... "eccentric" that he films many of the things he drives, owns, lives in, but he clearly has motivation for keeping a high level of security... if it's for his son/family's safety, then so be it. it's not like he's filming me masturbate in the shower while singing Journey and crying uncontrollably.

that was an invitation.

He didn't get into trouble, not at all. In fact he was commended for not touching or playing with it. He explained his reason for not telling me about it, and I accepted that. I asked him to tell the adult in charge if he ever sees a gun out. That was that.

Oh, and invitation declined, sorry... Unless you think there's money to me made by posting on youtube with paid ads...

[Scruit]

I'm assuming that by posting your experiment here in a public forum that you are at least open to, if not requesting the opinions of said public on your experiment. With that said...

Within reason, of course.

From what you've described I would say that it would be very difficult for this kid to succeed in this situation. Hew knew he was being tested and above all other things he did the right thing: he didn't touch the gun. But yet he still got in trouble for a situation that you artificially created. Not sure if your expectations of the kid was fair. But I am certain the situation you created here was definitely not fair.

You didn't fully understand, or I didn't fully explain. Either way... He *did* succeed in that he didn't touch or play with the gun. He did not get into trouble for not reporting it (that assumption is all on you) - I just asked him to report it if he saw a gun again. My expectations were that he not touch the gun and that he tell me about finding it - that is a perfectly reasonable expectation.

[Scruit]

To be honest...This is exactly what I was thinking.

And I am mindful of that. We have an understanding that when it comes to guns, motorbikes, shop tools, the main road out front, and anything else that can kill him that I am responsible for his staying safe. This is how I choose to reassure myself that he is doing the right thing.

I'm open to other ideas. How do you deal with it with your kids? At what age did you let them cross busy roads alone? Or use shop tools? How would your kids react if they found a gun at a friend's house or in the street? (and how do you KNOW that for sure?)

[Simplysix]

Everything here considered, this is a very interesting thread

[jbot]

He didn't get into trouble, not at all. In fact he was commended for not touching or playing with it. He explained his reason for not telling me about it, and I accepted that. I asked him to tell the adult in charge if he ever sees a gun out. That was that.

Oh, and invitation declined, sorry... Unless you think there's money to me made by posting on youtube with paid ads...

i was actually telling the others that i didn't think you yelled at your kid, but in fact, seemed to be proud of him for reacting the way he did.

and with that type of heart breaking rendition of "Any Way You Want It", furious fapping, and all that water, you'd want to put it on a more... "niche" type of site.

[Scruit]

i was actually telling the others that i didn't think you yelled at your kid, but in fact, seemed to be proud of him for reacting the way he did.

Understood - I was agreeing with you and expanding on that.

and with that type of heart breaking rendition of "Any Way You Want It", furious fapping, and all that water, you'd want to put it on a more... "niche" type of site.

Aimed at former prisoners? Could you drop the soap once or twice, for effect?

[idodishez]

You have this attitude in common with the Department of Corrections. Don't worry though...I'm sure Hallmark will fit that into their next Father's Day card :sarcasm

In general, people that are severly non-trusting of other people are that way because, 1) they are severly untrurstworthy themselves and that shapes their view of other people, or 2) they have another underlying psychological issue that needs attention. This is not my opinion...anyone with a Psychology degree will tell you the same thing.

btw...this is me being friendly :notsarcasm.

Haven't gotten a fathers day card or even had it acknowledged in years. Probably since I got full custody. Make you feel better? Doesn't change my belief though. I'm his dad, not his buddy. He's got his mom to coddle him and let him do whatever the f he wants. (which is why I'm in this position in the first place) It's my job to parent, teach responsibility, and accountability. If he lies and proves to be un trustworthy, then he won't be trusted. With that comes loss of freedoms and privileges (phone, tv, Internet etc) Pretty common sense stuff if you ask me. You obviously don't know me, but I am one of the most trustworthy people you would ever meet. But if you lie to me you have lost my trust, and it will take a lot to rebuild it. My son has proven that he lies compulsively. So that is where my distrust (of him or those who lie to me, not everybody like you would like to paint with your broad brush) comes from. Again, pretty much common sense stuff if you ask me.

This is me hopefully being polite and Christian like.

NoBama 2012

[kiggy74]

And I am mindful of that. We have an understanding that when it comes to guns, motorbikes, shop tools, the main road out front, and anything else that can kill him that I am responsible for his staying safe. This is how I choose to reassure myself that he is doing the right thing.

I'm open to other ideas. How do you deal with it with your kids? At what age did you let them cross busy roads alone? Or use shop tools? How would your kids react if they found a gun at a friend's house or in the street? (and how do you KNOW that for sure?)

Nothing is ever certain, and there isn't a single right answer. I'm not even saying that what you here is wrong, or that you should give a turd what anyone here thinks.

But guns, tools, crossing the street or just but a couple of million scenarios that your kid will have to learn to deal with, just as you did when you grew up.

You can't learn it for them, but you can provide them a good environment in which they can learn these things on their own. You're obviously a conscientious parent, and ultimately erring on the side of caution, if erring at all.

I'm just offering this advice: Don't risk losing the value of the lesson by using deceitful tactics.

At the end of the day what's most important is that your kid trusts and respects you. But this goes both ways. A typical 8 yr old probably doesn't have the perspective to feel violated by your test, but eventual he will.

Edited February 20, 2012 by kiggy74

[Tpoppa]

And I am mindful of that. We have an understanding that when it comes to guns, motorbikes, shop tools, the main road out front, and anything else that can kill him that I am responsible for his staying safe. This is how I choose to reassure myself that he is doing the right thing.

I'm open to other ideas. How do you deal with it with your kids? At what age did you let them cross busy roads alone? Or use shop tools? How would your kids react if they found a gun at a friend's house or in the street? (and how do you KNOW that for sure?)

Knowing for sure is the opposite of trusting, right?

The saying 'Trust Must Be Earned, is a valid one. I feel it applies perfectly toward strangers.

With someones own child I happen to feel differently. Their primary influences are mom and dad until they're are old enough to be influenced by peers. Their behavior reflects on you. With my son, I like the approach that 'trust and respect breeds trust and respect.' I realize that statement may come off as liberal, however, I am not a liberal parent, just ask mom.

I was a good kid...church, straight A's, honest as could be, never in trouble, etc. That was until an overly strict step dad came into the picture and decided he was going to lay down the law. I rebelled big time and did a few bad things that I never would done if I had gotten a little credit or respect as a kid. To this day, I have no interest in a relationship with my step dad.

[kawi kid]

This reminds me of a maury episode I watched once.... or was it Springer? Either way it makes for good TV. And internets threads.

[Tpoppa]

it's not like he's filming me masturbate in the shower while singing Journey and crying uncontrollably.

that was an invitation.

Who's brave enough to type 'AZN crying Journey fetish porn' into Google with Safe Search off? Not me

[gen3flygirl]

^ challenge accepted

[Scruit]

Knowing for sure is the opposite of trusting, right?

The saying 'Trust Must Be Earned, is a valid one. I feel it applies perfectly toward strangers.

With someones own child I happen to feel differently. Their primary influences are mom and dad until they're are old enough to be influenced by peers. Their behavior reflects on you. With my son, I like the approach that 'trust and respect breeds trust and respect.' I realize that statement may come off as liberal, however, I am not a liberal parent, just ask mom.

I was a good kid...church, straight A's, honest as could be, never in trouble, etc. That was until an overly strict step dad came into the picture and decided he was going to lay down the law. I rebelled big time and did a few bad things that I never would done if I had gotten a little credit or respect as a kid. To this day, I have no interest in a relationship with my step dad.

Trust is not faith. Or maybe it is... either way, I have to know I can trust him. My parenting style. Faith is not enough when it comes to things that can kill him.

I had the same stepdad experience you did. The day he moved out (after 10 years) he came in and told me be was leaving for good. I told him he was letting all the warm air out so please close the door.

My own father was strict, so much so that he was the enforcer and mom was the comforter. I never rebelled again him. He was strict but fair and always stuck to his word.

I am the same with my boy... strict but fair. If I say I will do something or he will get something then that is what will happen. He knows he can trust that.

Have you ever had a fire drill at you house? If so then that's a test, no? Don't you trust him?

[Scruit]

^ challenge accepted

Rule 34 is gonna pimpslap you upside the head.

[Tigerpaw]

Interesting thread.

OP, your son sounds very trustworthy and intelligent.

Everyone has their own strong opinions on guns and childrearing. My take on this...you could "test" a child today. They may pass with flying colors. Tomorrow they may not. Today they may be alone when tested. The next time they may be with friends, trying to impress each other. Do you know why they passed the test today? Was it fear of the parent, fear of the weapon, just following your guidance, etc, or best...knowledge of weapons?

I guess what I'm saying is...I don't think this type of test is worth it for me and my family. Kids are everchanging and circumstances are never the same. I will continue to teach proper weapon handling to my family. This includes live fire/practice. It definitely takes the curiosity factor out. Hopefully doing that will give them the knowledge to not have a firearm accident.

Also, the filming could cause trust issues. I have no desire to go down that road. In the end you have to have trust in yourself...that you raised them the best you could.

**The original scenario reminds me of an old episode from the sitcom King of Queens. Doug leaves like $4.00 in change on the kitchen counter, in hopes of catching Carrie stealing it.**

[jbot]

Rule 34 is gonna pimpslap you upside the head.

so does this mean you'll be the redbarron of voyeur porn threads in the NSFW section?

[Scruit]

While setting up videoconferencing gear for one company I told a remote team member that I put a camera in the men's room. What I actually did was google image search for toilet, printed the pic and hung it in front of the camera. She logged in to thethe feed and then started calling me a sicko.

Then I told her that someone had gone in there, so go look now! A gave it a minute then turned the camera to face me giving he the finger. The phone rang with he yelling "you're an asshole, you lied!"Does. I said "you're a perve, you LOOKED!"

[jbot]

While setting up videoconferencing gear for one company I told a remote team member that I put a camera in the men's room. What I actually did was google image search for toilet, printed the pic and hung it in front of the camera. She logged in to thethe feed and then started calling me a sicko.

Then I told her that someone had gone in there, so go look now! A gave it a minute then turned the camera to face me giving he the finger. The phone rang with he yelling "you're an asshole, you lied!"Does. I said "you're a perve, you LOOKED!"

i can't believe you didn't goatse bomb her like a good person should.

[ross]

I feel that jbot will do an excellent parenting job and I award him the "Best parent of the thread" award.

[Carwhore]

TL;DR

[Scruit]

Just to clear the air' date=' Scruit... I don't think you film your child in inapropriate manners. I was commenting on your desire to film everything. I would never suggest that your motives were nothing but innocent and honorable. I just find it a little wierd. That's all.

Also, Isaac is taught to never touch a weapon that isn't handed to him by me, orsomeo e authorized to hand it to him by me.

I've tested Isaac's curiosity, too. I left his rifle out of the safe, with the bolt removed, pretending to have left it there absent-mindedly. He just walked by it for days without so much as a second glance. The guns are a way of life at our house. He couldn't care less about hat rifle in the corner. There is no curiosity for him. He knows everything about that weapon and is content to walk past it to get to his video games where he gets to shoot Nazis with bigger guns.

I appreciate what you were trying to prove. I just think you're going about it the wrong way. Isaac was 9 when he got his rifle. He was trained on gun safety with a Crossman BB gun before I even handed him an actual firearm. It's scary and you are right to have doubts about your son's curiosity. I just think there are better ways to go about it.

From one dad to another... Get used to not knowing how/what/why your son is goin to do the things he will do. Just do your best to encourage proper behavior and hope for the best. You can't closed circuit his entire childhood. Even if you could, would you really want to?

Forgive my typos. iPod.[/quote']

I'm confused. You said you've tested Isaac's curiosity in the same way, yet you think I'm going about it the wrong way? The only difference between you and Is that I put my gopro on a nearby shelf - that's the only way I could think of to tell if he touched it. There is not "closed circuit his entire childhood" to it.

How can you tell if Isaac passed the test you gave him? Why even test him if you can't tell if he did the right thing or not?

So I've had pages of being accused of being creepy, having a problem and having/creating trusts issues - yet you and I did exactly the same thing (even removing the bolt) except for you had some as-yet undisclosed way of figuring out if he passed or not and I just hit record on my helmet cam.

[Scruit]

I'm not so sure it's the same thing. I didn't inform Isaac that he was being tested. He is completely unaware of any experiment. I simply put the rifle away. I never mentioned it to him and have not felt the need to bother with the test' date=' again.

You're right, though. I have no idea whether he passed, or not. I'll never know. I just have to trust him.[/quote']

My son knows that I am always cognizant of his behavior. As he gets older it will be less and less so, but during the formative years he has learned that he can't sneak anything past me and I hope the behaviors he learned with that hanging over his head stick with him.

He also knows that when he does something right then I will notice that too and will give him the positive feedback.

The alternative is to not care about what he does. Too many kids in jail today to be too lax as a parent.

Edited February 22, 2012 by Scruit

[ohiomike]

Try all you want scruit, once kids reach their teens and become subject to that peer pressure you can usually kiss all the 'he can't sneak it past me' stuff goodbye. Then is the time that 'trust' comes into play because you are forced to trust their decisions at a time when you are not there and they are not on camera.

[Scruit]

Try all you want scruit, once kids reach their teens and become subject to that peer pressure you can usually kiss all the 'he can't sneak it past me' stuff goodbye. Then is the time that 'trust' comes into play because you are forced to trust :nono:their decisions at a time when you are not there and they are not on camera.

I agree. This is why i'm working hard to get a sense of responsibility and consequences into his head now so he has some kind of guidance to fall back on when someone hands him a joint or something like that.

[ohiomike]

Well I wish you the best!