Stoner to retire end of season

[4DAIVI PAI2K5]

How about bradl so far this season!

[Helmutt]

It's sad to see Stoner go, but at least he's pulling out while he's winning. Didn't Rossi have an offer to go to Repsol after this season? That "might" not be a bad move if he goes for it since it seems Honda has their setup down in getting power to the track for each of their riders.

Tech3 is definitely getting their shit together this season and being very competitive so far, I like that.......good to see some non-factory teams coming up.

Bradl is kind of a surprise to me with his performance, and it's got to be confidence inspiring just riding in the elite class, so with that boost surely comes better finishes......at least for a while But he's on a good team too - and bike setup HAS to coincide with rider talent for the combo to work in getting top 10's in GP.

I have zero clue as to how the CRT's differentiate from the typical GP bikes; other than engine related changes, that is. I haven't researched any of it yet, but from the looks of the finishes - they aren't very impressive just yet.....maybe more development will put them further up front?

[C-bus]

I googled CRT and read about it, now will someone explain what it really means to the sport?

[blue03636]

More bikes on grid to keep gp alive.

[C-bus]

From what I'm reading, it looks like it opens things up for non-factory teams, but leaves large performance differences.

[BDBGoalie]

CRT is designed to allow teams to not have to spend the money on prototype motors, lowering the cost involved in funding a team.

They just aren't competitive at this point. Almost like a ALMS race with multiple classes.

[Harb67]

Quick run-down of CRT bikes:

Heavily modified production motor in a prototype chassis, higher fuel allowance than the prototype bikes, much higher engine allocation than the prototype bikes. Currently employed motors include the lump out of the new ZX-10, the S1000RR's motor, and the Aprilia RSV4 motor.

As has been said, the goal of CRT is to lower the barriers to entry for the sport. MotoGP desperately needs more riders on the grid in order to attract sponsors, fans, media, and MONEY. Prototype bikes are mind-bogglingly expensive: for a sattelite team to run a prototype costs several million euros per bike, and even then they are only leasing (read: renting). Include the cost of a halfway decent rider, a crew, transportation/lodging/etc for all the equipment and bodies etc etc and the cost to race in MotoGP easily eclipses tens of millions of euros.

The problem is that right now, the bikes simply are not competitive when compared to the prototype bikes. Current estimates have the GP12 putting out north of 280 horses at the wheel. Danilli Petrucci's CRT bike is cranking out maybe 185. The most notable CRT ride is currently Aprilia's ART package, which is what Randy DePuniet is currently racing on. The ART bike is a very heavily massaged RSV4 motor, wrapped in a chassis that takes the WSBK platform above and beyond levels not allowed by WSBK rules, and managed by an Aprilia-developed electronics suite that all culminates in a turn-key GP racer that can be purchased for less than the price of leasing a prototype bike. It's still not competitive, though.

Clearly, the CRT concept has a long way to go before it can supplant the current system of factory prototype machines, but like it or not that's pretty much where the sport has to go if we want to see more than processional races between six factory prototypes with a bunch of rich-but-won't-win sattelite teams.

Rule changes are coming that are aimed at neutering the prototype bikes to bring them closer to CRT performance levels, while CRT development is steaming ahead as best it can. A maximum rev limit of somwhere in the 15,000 RPM range is in the pipeline for 2014, and things like minimum weight, engine allowances, and fuel limits are all fair game when it comes to narrowing the gap between prototype bikes and CRT machines. CRT is here to stay, at least for the forseeable future, and the next several seasons will be all about narrowing the performance gap so that you don't have to be megarich to have a shot at a MotoGP podium.

...that was quite long winded, but to the best of my knowledge, accurate. I'm bored at the late shift at work, what can I say?

[Helmutt]

Quick run-down of CRT bikes:

Heavily modified production motor in a prototype chassis, higher fuel allowance than the prototype bikes, much higher engine allocation than the prototype bikes. Currently employed motors include the lump out of the new ZX-10, the S1000RR's motor, and the Aprilia RSV4 motor.

As has been said, the goal of CRT is to lower the barriers to entry for the sport. MotoGP desperately needs more riders on the grid in order to attract sponsors, fans, media, and MONEY. Prototype bikes are mind-bogglingly expensive: for a sattelite team to run a prototype costs several million euros per bike, and even then they are only leasing (read: renting). Include the cost of a halfway decent rider, a crew, transportation/lodging/etc for all the equipment and bodies etc etc and the cost to race in MotoGP easily eclipses tens of millions of euros.

The problem is that right now, the bikes simply are not competitive when compared to the prototype bikes. Current estimates have the GP12 putting out north of 280 horses at the wheel. Danilli Petrucci's CRT bike is cranking out maybe 185. The most notable CRT ride is currently Aprilia's ART package, which is what Randy DePuniet is currently racing on. The ART bike is a very heavily massaged RSV4 motor, wrapped in a chassis that takes the WSBK platform above and beyond levels not allowed by WSBK rules, and managed by an Aprilia-developed electronics suite that all culminates in a turn-key GP racer that can be purchased for less than the price of leasing a prototype bike. It's still not competitive, though.

Clearly, the CRT concept has a long way to go before it can supplant the current system of factory prototype machines, but like it or not that's pretty much where the sport has to go if we want to see more than processional races between six factory prototypes with a bunch of rich-but-won't-win sattelite teams.

Rule changes are coming that are aimed at neutering the prototype bikes to bring them closer to CRT performance levels, while CRT development is steaming ahead as best it can. A maximum rev limit of somwhere in the 15,000 RPM range is in the pipeline for 2014, and things like minimum weight, engine allowances, and fuel limits are all fair game when it comes to narrowing the gap between prototype bikes and CRT machines. CRT is here to stay, at least for the forseeable future, and the next several seasons will be all about narrowing the performance gap so that you don't have to be megarich to have a shot at a MotoGP podium.

...that was quite long winded, but to the best of my knowledge, accurate. I'm bored at the late shift at work, what can I say?

Nice summary, easy to understand and simpler than reading a dozen articles to collect comparisons of the 2 classes - but its hard to believe 185hp is all that a "heavily modified" CRT can produce, when the new S1000RR can put out that much power with little cohercing beyond the factory tune? I'm interested in seeing how well the R&D proves it's worth as the season progresses, but cutting the nuts out of the GP bikes just to help the entire field stay more competitive throughout?......NOT the answer in my opinion. But like you said, it is where its going anyway. I know its another factor in Stoner leaving, but I truly think its not always about factory support and money so much as dialing the bike and rider into each other's best performances on a consistent basis. Tech3 is slowly proving this theory, not that they dont have money so much as showing competitive skill as an independant team by comparison.......AND having Dovi isn't hurting them either.

Although the CRT's are completely different powerplant, its not enough change to drive me away from watching the series, I mean hell.....I watch AMA racing! I'd probably watch pitbike or scooter racing if it was publicized:D

Thanks for the insight man, you've enlightened a dedicated fan right here

[C-bus]

Quick run-down of CRT bikes:

Heavily modified production motor in a prototype chassis, higher fuel allowance than the prototype bikes, much higher engine allocation than the prototype bikes. Currently employed motors include the lump out of the new ZX-10, the S1000RR's motor, and the Aprilia RSV4 motor.

As has been said, the goal of CRT is to lower the barriers to entry for the sport. MotoGP desperately needs more riders on the grid in order to attract sponsors, fans, media, and MONEY. Prototype bikes are mind-bogglingly expensive: for a sattelite team to run a prototype costs several million euros per bike, and even then they are only leasing (read: renting). Include the cost of a halfway decent rider, a crew, transportation/lodging/etc for all the equipment and bodies etc etc and the cost to race in MotoGP easily eclipses tens of millions of euros.

The problem is that right now, the bikes simply are not competitive when compared to the prototype bikes. Current estimates have the GP12 putting out north of 280 horses at the wheel. Danilli Petrucci's CRT bike is cranking out maybe 185. The most notable CRT ride is currently Aprilia's ART package, which is what Randy DePuniet is currently racing on. The ART bike is a very heavily massaged RSV4 motor, wrapped in a chassis that takes the WSBK platform above and beyond levels not allowed by WSBK rules, and managed by an Aprilia-developed electronics suite that all culminates in a turn-key GP racer that can be purchased for less than the price of leasing a prototype bike. It's still not competitive, though.

Clearly, the CRT concept has a long way to go before it can supplant the current system of factory prototype machines, but like it or not that's pretty much where the sport has to go if we want to see more than processional races between six factory prototypes with a bunch of rich-but-won't-win sattelite teams.

Rule changes are coming that are aimed at neutering the prototype bikes to bring them closer to CRT performance levels, while CRT development is steaming ahead as best it can. A maximum rev limit of somwhere in the 15,000 RPM range is in the pipeline for 2014, and things like minimum weight, engine allowances, and fuel limits are all fair game when it comes to narrowing the gap between prototype bikes and CRT machines. CRT is here to stay, at least for the forseeable future, and the next several seasons will be all about narrowing the performance gap so that you don't have to be megarich to have a shot at a MotoGP podium.

...that was quite long winded, but to the best of my knowledge, accurate. I'm bored at the late shift at work, what can I say?

Thank you. Well done.

So now I'm torn. It's kind of like they're striving to meet in the middle, giving up performance. I love AMA Daytona for the unspoiled talent and I love GP for its cutting-edge performance. I hope we don't simply end up with WSBK+. Oh well, I don't race and I'll watch it on Sunday regardless.

[grapesmuggler27]

FIM WSBK > every other series

[Harb67]

Nice summary, easy to understand and simpler than reading a dozen articles to collect comparisons of the 2 classes - but its hard to believe 185hp is all that a "heavily modified" CRT can produce, when the new S1000RR can put out that much power with little cohercing beyond the factory tune?

I should have qualified that statement by saying that the Came Ioda bike that Petrucci rides is a bit of an oddball an is as low as the power gets - it's a completely custom Ioda frame powered by a nearly-stock RSV4 motor. Petrucci was something like 30mph down on the fastest prototype bike back at the Qatar race on the main straight, whereas the fastest CRT was still 14mph behind the same prototype. Most estimates have big best CRT's behind the prototypes by 30-40hp.

I really wish I could watch two versions of race coverage on Sundays: one focusing entirely on the prototype bikes and another all about the CRT group. There is still some serious racing going on in that bunch and it's a shame that it gets lost amongst all the processional prototype racing and is reduced to a post-race numbers game after the fact.

[4DAIVI PAI2K5]

FIM WSBK > every other series

Dunno I love me some WSBK, but Moto2 has been crazy since the get go a few years ago.

I really wish I could watch two versions of race coverage on Sundays: one focusing entirely on the prototype bikes and another all about the CRT group. There is still some serious racing going on in that bunch and it's a shame that it gets lost amongst all the processional prototype racing and is reduced to a post-race numbers game after the fact.

3/4 of the way threw the race they show a CRT bike battle for 20 sec.

[Helmutt]

I should have qualified that statement by saying that the Came Ioda bike that Petrucci rides is a bit of an oddball an is as low as the power gets - it's a completely custom Ioda frame powered by a nearly-stock RSV4 motor. Petrucci was something like 30mph down on the fastest prototype bike back at the Qatar race on the main straight, whereas the fastest CRT was still 14mph behind the same prototype. Most estimates have big best CRT's behind the prototypes by 30-40hp.

Thats more acceptable - still quite a difference but sometimes less is more when it comes to applying the power to the track - so it would be great if they would allow extra weight loss on the CRT or some other exceptional mods to level the field vs derating the proto's. I guess I just hate hearing about possible power restrictions on the highest class of roadracing machines

[Harb67]

I guess I just hate hearing about possible power restrictions on the highest class of roadracing machines

Agreed. Personally I think MotoGP has painted itself into a corner here. The draw of the sport is the fact that it's the pinnacle of motorcycle racing - the very best of everything. Unfortunately, we're way past the point of diminishing returns and every tiny improvement costs a fortune. For example, the satellite Tech3 bikes originally came with Brembo brake one generation older than what Lorenzo and Spies are running. The newer brakes were made available to the Tech3 guys for 60,000 euros (76,000 USD). Dovi paid that cash out of his own pocket, Crutchlow chose to stick with the older brakes. Looking at the standings so far, was it worth it?

Three teams can afford that sort of expense on a regular basis, so whether we like it or not MotoGP is already a divided grid with effectively different classes in the same race. The choices are stick with the status quo and watch the sport die a boring, expensive death, or make some difficult decisions and reel in the big spenders so that the sport as a whole can survive.

[Helmutt]

Agreed. Personally I think MotoGP has painted itself into a corner here. The draw of the sport is the fact that it's the pinnacle of motorcycle racing - the very best of everything. Unfortunately, we're way past the point of diminishing returns and every tiny improvement costs a fortune. For example, the satellite Tech3 bikes originally came with Brembo brake one generation older than what Lorenzo and Spies are running. The newer brakes were made available to the Tech3 guys for 60,000 euros (76,000 USD). Dovi paid that cash out of his own pocket, Crutchlow chose to stick with the older brakes. Looking at the standings so far, was it worth it?

Three teams can afford that sort of expense on a regular basis, so whether we like it or not MotoGP is already a divided grid with effectively different classes in the same race. The choices are stick with the status quo and watch the sport die a boring, expensive death, or make some difficult decisions and reel in the big spenders so that the sport as a whole can survive.

You are definitely on point imo, but I just cant wrap my head around an over $75k Brembo braking system for a bike of ANY kind. Seems almost comical to me, I'm assuming these prices are so driven due to use of precious metals and TONS of engineering labor invested?

[YSR_Racer_99]

I may be dating myself here, but I miss the old MotoGP days of Doohan, Schwants, Rainey, et al. Back when they raced with their skills, knowing that the vicious two-stroke beasts with the scary powerbands could flip them on their heads at any moment. Days when Gary McCoy would leave beautiful long dark blackies coming out of the corners. Too many electronic limiters now. It was much more exciting then. Sure, I still watch, but it seems pretty sterile in comparison. Now its all low-sides in the rain.

[ama146]

beautiful long dark blackies coming

wut.

[Helmutt]

Great......now I gotta poop

[BDBGoalie]

I may be dating myself here, but I miss the old MotoGP days of Doohan, Schwants, Rainey, et al. Back when they raced with their skills, knowing that the vicious two-stroke beasts with the scary powerbands could flip them on their heads at any moment. Days when Gary McCoy would leave beautiful long dark blackies coming out of the corners. Too many electronic limiters now. It was much more exciting then. Sure, I still watch, but it seems pretty sterile in comparison. Now its all low-sides in the rain.

+1