The Vatican lists new sins....

[psyco1]

[PFD2006]

Are you guys serious? I just wanted to set a few things straight before I quit coming here.

First, NinjaNick, I feel sorry for you if someone else giving thanks for the food that God has provided embarrasses you. We are all blessed in this country that we have the freedom to worship as we please, and that God has blessed us all. A little gratitude toward Him should not be an embarrassment, it should be the norm.

Fusion, it is not about growth and control, it is a community. We worship together to praise the God that has given us life. It is not a cult, in that a cult is “a religion regarded as unorthodox or spurious (false)”. Catholicism is neither.

Kawi Kid, Tom Cruise has nothing to do with the Catholic Church, get your facts straight. He is a Scientologist.

Further, the Catholic church has never done the “send me your money and you will be saved” farce, that is the televangelists, who, by the way, are Protestants.

Isac's papa, your caption for the pic with the Pope and Cardinals is just wrong. First, the scandal was overblown by the liberal media, in actuality, <0.2% of Catholic priests have been proven to be abusers, and once found, they were tried, defrocked, and jailed for their crimes. There is no more of a percentage of Priests that abuse than there are teachers in classrooms that abuse throughout the US. Am I making excuses for those who abused? NO! But every organization has it's bad apples, and the Church is doing it's best to get rid of those that abuse.

Jermattak, in response to your post, here is what the Bible says: You say the bible says to repent to God, but the bible says “In truth I tell you, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven” Mathew 18, 18., which is the premise for confession. The bible does not say that God hates religion, it says he hates false religion and hypocrites. We do not “Pray with beads”, we use the rosary as a “place marker” if you will, away to keep our place in this prayer. The Eucharist IS Jesus' body, the wine IS his blood. The bible says “Then he took the bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and gave it to them, saying, 'THIS IS MY BODY given for you, do this in remembrance of me'. He did the same with the cup after supper, and said, this cup is the new covenant IN MY BLOOD poured out for you.” Luke 22, 19-20. Also, we are not praying through Mary, we are asking for her intervention for Jesus' blessings when praying to her. There is a great friend in Mary, and a great friend in faith, her intervention can help out tremendously. The Church is God's house. All of what you describe has a purpose. The size of the church is in proportion to the congregation size. Large churches are necessary for large congregations. The stained glass windows tell a story of our faith, they are not just decorations. Jesus' gold grown is a depiction of his Kingship in heaven, not a representation of what he had on earth. There are many people in all religions who “wouldn't know Jesus if he rolled up on a Ducati and bit them”, so it is not just a Catholic thing. Do not base your view of a religion on a few bad apples.

JRMMiii, do you really want to try to use the father of Communism to argue any point? Further, do you believe that an atheist is the best resource to make a religious argument?

exSRAaron, neither God nor the Church are against fun. At the wedding party at Cana, Jesus turned water to wine, not just any wine, good wine. Why would he do this? So people at the wedding could continue the party! That just goes to show that there is nothing wrong with alcohol, it only becomes a problem in excess.

Catholicism is the only Christian religion that can trace it's beginnings directly back to Christ and his twelve Apostles. Do some research before you just go Catholic bashing. There is a lot of information out there that just is not true. It is not perfect, but what organization is?

[jermattak]

The English word "religion" is etymologically derived from the Latin word religo, meaning to "bind up." Religion binds people up in rules and regulations or in ritualistic patterns of devotion.

Christianity, on the other hand, was never meant to be a religion. Christianity is the dynamic spiritual life of the risen Lord Jesus indwelling the spirit of man so as to create functional behavior to the glory of God. Granted, men have attempted to force Christianity into the molds and forms of religion. That is evident by all the steeples and sanctuaries and ecclesiastical programs that dot the landscape of our society.

It is the propensity of man to formulate religion ­ to take that which is of the invisible God and attempt to make it visible, tangible and controllable. Man-made religion! The apostle Paul refers to it as "self-made religion" (Colossians 2:23), and goes on to indicate that it is of no value against fleshly indulgence. In essence, Paul is saying that "religion is of no value against man's sinfulness." In fact, religion is a co-dependent enabler of the sins of mankind. It is itself an addiction.

"I have had enough of burnt offerings...Bring your worthless offerings no longer...I hate your new moon festivals and your appointed feasts; they have become a burden to Me... So when you spread out your hands in prayer, I will hide My eyes from you... I will not listen..." (Isaiah 1:10-15)

"I hate, I reject your festivals; nor do I delight in your solemn assemblies...take away from Me the noise of your songs; I will not even listen to the sound of your harps." (Amos 5:21-24)

I dont see how you could possibley pray to anyone but God, mary was cool and all, but what is the point of praying to her? how is that biblical? Does mary have spiritual "power" that God doesnt? (i didnt feel like typing, and i only found kings james version online, forgive me for the thees and thous)Therefore he is able to save completely those who come to God through him, because he always lives to intercede for them." Romans 8:34 "Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us."

Plus, Im assuming that you believe mary never sinned, when romans 3:23 said everyone falls short.

I didnt say anything about the literal size of the church, i was talking about the luxerious icons, and expensive things, do you think christ would put up golden statues of himself, or million dollar stained glass windows of his bros? I dont see how you could justify that. So what if it "represents" his life on earth? Thats what the bible is for. I think of a million biblical ways to use a million dollars rather than a huge window.

The blood thing, im not saying that he actually didnt turn it in to blood or his body, whatever, that has nothing to do with my theology. I do believe( and its biblical) that god can use man to do miracles. But what is gained through actually eating christs body, and blood? do you really think God would just turn it into his kids actual body, just for kicks?

and im guessing you trace the church back to peter? if we follow your way of thinking and theology, than peter is Satan! matt 16:23

and please explain how the pope can talk to god, and you cant...

[jermattak]

Further, the Catholic church has never done the “send me your money and you will be saved†farce, that is the televangelists, who, by the way, are Protestants.

what about indulgences? you dont anymore, but you cant say you never did

[kawi kid]

Kawi Kid, Tom Cruise has nothing to do with the Catholic Church, get your facts straight. He is a Scientologist.

you dont really need to have your facts straight when you are just fucking joking.

[kawi kid]

.............

ps there is still no denying that a catholic service is more like a damn aerobics session with all your stand up, sit down, kneel, and turn youself around crap. i think its all cuz they want to keep the congregation in shape for when they wanna buy a new statue or add on to an already to big too ornate church, and they dont want people having heart attacks when they have to foot the bill!

[shittygsxr]

:lol: Everyone here is going to hell

I on the other hand have been blessed by the late John Paul II, yep true story. Just in case the catholic religion is not right, I also took the liberty of being blessed at some of the oldest buddhist temples in the world, including the sites of the golden and emerald buddha man there was a lot of steps, but hey I wont be burning in hell with the rest of you

[2insanezx10r]

Oh shit don't say that I'm scared to go 150mph let alone go down south. Feel me.

[NinjaNick]

Edited May 31, 2010 by NinjaNick

[fusion]

Are you guys serious? I just wanted to set a few things straight before I quit coming here.

First, NinjaNick, I feel sorry for you if someone else giving thanks for the food that God has provided embarrasses you. We are all blessed in this country that we have the freedom to worship as we please, and that God has blessed us all. A little gratitude toward Him should not be an embarrassment, it should be the norm.

Fusion, it is not about growth and control, it is a community. We worship together to praise the God that has given us life. It is not a cult, in that a cult is “a religion regarded as unorthodox or spurious (false)â€. Catholicism is neither.

Kawi Kid, Tom Cruise has nothing to do with the Catholic Church, get your facts straight. He is a Scientologist.

Further, the Catholic church has never done the “send me your money and you will be saved†farce, that is the televangelists, who, by the way, are Protestants.

Isac's papa, your caption for the pic with the Pope and Cardinals is just wrong. First, the scandal was overblown by the liberal media, in actuality, <0.2% of Catholic priests have been proven to be abusers, and once found, they were tried, defrocked, and jailed for their crimes. There is no more of a percentage of Priests that abuse than there are teachers in classrooms that abuse throughout the US. Am I making excuses for those who abused? NO! But every organization has it's bad apples, and the Church is doing it's best to get rid of those that abuse.

Jermattak, in response to your post, here is what the Bible says: You say the bible says to repent to God, but the bible says “In truth I tell you, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven†Mathew 18, 18., which is the premise for confession. The bible does not say that God hates religion, it says he hates false religion and hypocrites. We do not “Pray with beadsâ€, we use the rosary as a “place marker†if you will, away to keep our place in this prayer. The Eucharist IS Jesus' body, the wine IS his blood. The bible says “Then he took the bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and gave it to them, saying, 'THIS IS MY BODY given for you, do this in remembrance of me'. He did the same with the cup after supper, and said, this cup is the new covenant IN MY BLOOD poured out for you.†Luke 22, 19-20. Also, we are not praying through Mary, we are asking for her intervention for Jesus' blessings when praying to her. There is a great friend in Mary, and a great friend in faith, her intervention can help out tremendously. The Church is God's house. All of what you describe has a purpose. The size of the church is in proportion to the congregation size. Large churches are necessary for large congregations. The stained glass windows tell a story of our faith, they are not just decorations. Jesus' gold grown is a depiction of his Kingship in heaven, not a representation of what he had on earth. There are many people in all religions who “wouldn't know Jesus if he rolled up on a Ducati and bit themâ€, so it is not just a Catholic thing. Do not base your view of a religion on a few bad apples.

JRMMiii, do you really want to try to use the father of Communism to argue any point? Further, do you believe that an atheist is the best resource to make a religious argument?

exSRAaron, neither God nor the Church are against fun. At the wedding party at Cana, Jesus turned water to wine, not just any wine, good wine. Why would he do this? So people at the wedding could continue the party! That just goes to show that there is nothing wrong with alcohol, it only becomes a problem in excess.

Catholicism is the only Christian religion that can trace it's beginnings directly back to Christ and his twelve Apostles. Do some research before you just go Catholic bashing. There is a lot of information out there that just is not true. It is not perfect, but what organization is?

I felt like Calvin in your avatar after reading this post.

Are you guys serious? I just wanted to set a few things straight before I quit coming here.

If you quit coming here because of a few comments that you don't agree with you might want to consider moving to a country that is a theocracy and regulates speech.

First, NinjaNick, I feel sorry for you if someone else giving thanks for the food that God has provided embarrasses you. We are all blessed in this country that we have the freedom to worship as we please, and that God has blessed us all. A little gratitude toward Him should not be an embarrassment, it should be the norm.

Do you mean everyone should be gracious to him? or just those that believe in the same version of the Christian god that you do? It almost sounds like you are leveraging your belief upon others.

Fusion, it is not about growth and control, it is a community. We worship together to praise the God that has given us life. It is not a cult, in that a cult is “a religion regarded as unorthodox or spurious (false)â€. Catholicism is neither.

If that brings you comfort that's great. Don't think though that the history of the The Church isn't overly sugar coated and like current versions of biblical texts (gospels, oral tradition, or otherwise...) doesn't suffer from a great deal of revisionist history.

Kawi Kid, Tom Cruise has nothing to do with the Catholic Church, get your facts straight. He is a Scientologist.

That's just funny.

Further, the Catholic church has never done the “send me your money and you will be saved†farce, that is the televangelists, who, by the way, are Protestants.

Actually I believe there was a point in time (maybe medieval) where the church as part of the government did require tithing as law in the form of taxes.

Isac's papa, your caption for the pic with the Pope and Cardinals is just wrong. First, the scandal was overblown by the liberal media, in actuality, <0.2% of Catholic priests have been proven to be abusers, and once found, they were tried, defrocked, and jailed for their crimes. There is no more of a percentage of Priests that abuse than there are teachers in classrooms that abuse throughout the US. Am I making excuses for those who abused? NO! But every organization has it's bad apples, and the Church is doing it's best to get rid of those that abuse.

This is full of fail. While I agree there was a small number of priests that were/are involved in this sort of thing and I also agree that the media helped blow it up a bit, it's well known that the church did not turn over everyone involved and there were priests shuffled and incidents covered up. A few bad apples do spoil a bunch sometimes, but it doesn't help when the organization helps cover up such things.

To add, there's a big difference between the student teacher "scandals" and what happen with the priests.

I'm not going through the effort to start discussing biblical quotes and their context.

JRMMiii, do you really want to try to use the father of Communism to argue any point? Further, do you believe that an atheist is the best resource to make a religious argument?

This is called a an ad hominem, otherwise known as a logical fallacy. You're attacking the person as opposed to the argument. It's one of the poorest forms of response. We just reply to you then by saying, "We shouldn't listen your opinion on the Catholic church since you are Catholic. You can't believe that a follower of that religion could give an unbiased opinion can you?"

exSRAaron, neither God nor the Church are against fun. At the wedding party at Cana, Jesus turned water to wine, not just any wine, good wine. Why would he do this? So people at the wedding could continue the party! That just goes to show that there is nothing wrong with alcohol, it only becomes a problem in excess.

Jesus hung out with his buddies and the whores all the time, what can be more fun than that!??!

Catholicism is the only Christian religion that can trace it's beginnings directly back to Christ and his twelve Apostles. Do some research before you just go Catholic bashing. There is a lot of information out there that just is not true. It is not perfect, but what organization is?

Because they say so right? Let's set aside the fact they can't even pinpoint Jesus' actual existence historically, because there are no other records of it other than the bible. Don't bother bringing up rediculous, discounted sources such as Flavius Joseph, Tacticus or the Acts of Pilate.

[NinjaNick]

Burn!

[jermattak]

im still waiting on a reply to my post, i can use his own bible and nothing else to show its far from truth

[fusion]

im still waiting on a reply to my post, i can use his own bible and nothing else to show its far from truth

Yeah I don't know. Something about that big ass post just rubbed me wrong. Might have even been just the first statement. I don't care what text or religion someone cares to believe in as long as they don't try to interject it into my life.

[kawi kid]

someone pass the popcorn please!!!

[420gsxr1000]

FUSION....very well put!!!!!!!

[vectorvictor]

I agree w all of you that have posted so far and thats why I dont waste my

time w the roman catholic faith that I was raised with. If it makes you happy then great but I have a good idea of how to live my life without someone else telling me if i am right or not. I can make up my own mind. Its called individualism and if your compass works you can guide yourself without someone moving the magnet to where they want it. Its no better than the other side with the church of liberalism and its indisputable truths on global warming.

I guess he agreed with my post or his fingers got tired!!

[Benyen Soljax]

Yeah I don't know. Something about that big ass post just rubbed me wrong. Might have even been just the first statement. I don't care what text or religion someone cares to believe in as long as they don't try to interject it into my life.

it always seems like the people arguing for their religion get the most angry and frustrated. i assume that guy doesnt come here anymore after reading a couple of your posts, either that or he just accepts that it is going to take a lot more time and research on his own to figure out the truth behind many arguments from both sides.

my parents are super religious, and always took me to baptist church until i was 18. i think the leaders in churches closely resemble politicians more often than not because of the nature of the job. ive had a lot of difficult questions get shrugged off by the people who supposedly study the answers, and ive met a lot of people whove really challenged me spiritually who havent been to church in years.

to sum up: you can meet some damn fine girls at church.

[NinjaNick]

There's a guy here at my work that wants to get his college degree at some religious college. Bachelors to preach? No shit! I can't believe that is determined a degree! I wonder how they get their money...from church goers pockets? Hmmm....I think it's rediculous that it's considered a career!!

[Benyen Soljax]

There's a guy here at my work that wants to get his college degree at some religious college. Bachelors to preach? No shit! I can't believe that is determined a degree! I wonder how they get their money...from church goers pockets? Hmmm....I think it's rediculous that it's considered a career!!

i disagree with you. i mean, you can get a degree in politics too. same idea though really, youre trying to make everyone happy, while also living your life and pretending to not be in it for the money. some people look to the government for the answers, and some look to their local pastor/priest/cleric/whatever...

edit: i might venture to say that the latter is a more difficult job.

[fusion]

FUSION....very well put!!!!!!!

Thanks!

it always seems like the people arguing for their religion get the most angry and frustrated. i assume that guy doesnt come here anymore after reading a couple of your posts, either that or he just accepts that it is going to take a lot more time and research on his own to figure out the truth behind many arguments from both sides.

my parents are super religious, and always took me to baptist church until i was 18. i think the leaders in churches closely resemble politicians more often than not because of the nature of the job. ive had a lot of difficult questions get shrugged off by the people who supposedly study the answers, and ive met a lot of people whove really challenged me spiritually who havent been to church in years.

to sum up: you can meet some damn fine girls at church.

I went to Church when I was younger because my mom made me. A lot of things didn't make sense, but considering it was Baptist and in Texas they were all prolly a little crazy anyway.

I dated a girl whose father was a deacon at a church. I won't go into any details on how well I got to know that building.

There's a guy here at my work that wants to get his college degree at some religious college. Bachelors to preach? No shit! I can't believe that is determined a degree! I wonder how they get their money...from church goers pockets? Hmmm....I think it's rediculous that it's considered a career!!

Meh there are a lot of crappy degrees out there. Besides religion is big business. You seen how well off some of those who run larger and mega churchs are?