twowheelsnake Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 The only reason you guys are arguing about this is because large corporations have put millions of dollars into advertising to make this seem like a bad idea. Why? Because they are not interested in making life better for the common man. They are only interested in protecting their profits. And you ask "what's so wrong with that it's capitalism right?". I don't want for profit healthcare any more than I want for profit prisons. It's not a good thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crb Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 The only reason you guys are arguing about this is because large corporations have put millions of dollars into advertising to make this seem like a bad idea. Why? Because they are not interested in making life better for the common man. They are only interested in protecting their profits. And you ask "what's so wrong with that it's capitalism right?". I don't want for profit healthcare any more than I want for profit prisons. It's not a good thing.Who is this common man you speak of? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twowheelsnake Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 The working class, you may have met one before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.W. Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 The only reason you guys are arguing about this is because large corporations have put millions of dollars into advertising to make this seem like a bad idea.The big companies (especially the pharmaceutical companies) have already figured out how to maintain their profits. They have been working on it since this idea was first introduced.The arbitrary scale of "quality" is going to be the real problem here. If X percentage of patients have to have blood pressure in Y range, the doctors are going to push the quickest (but not necessarily best) fix... "here take this pill." Lifestyle changes are the real fix for these problems but if a young MD, still owing from med school, has a salary that is dependent on the government's definition of "quality" then the care will surely not be in the patient's best interest. Why suggest diet and exercise if that won't maintain your salary for the next year? Keep in mind, this is only my complaint about one of these points and certainly not my biggest complaint. It's just one of the easiest to single out. It's also the way that big pharma has already seen that they will maintain their grip on the entire process. The plan changes some procedure but it "fixes" little if anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swingset Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 (edited) The only reason you guys are arguing about this is because large corporations have put millions of dollars into advertising to make this seem like a bad idea. Why? Because they are not interested in making life better for the common man. They are only interested in protecting their profits. And you ask "what's so wrong with that it's capitalism right?". I don't want for profit healthcare any more than I want for profit prisons. It's not a good thing.Profit drives innovation, and lowers costs. When you control the costs, by restriction, you get shitty care because no one wants to invest in medicine...no one wants to slave away in medical school to make crap wages, no one wants to build hospitals and the best care because it's a money pit. It's why our "for profit" healthcare system is as good as it is, even with the burdens of government fucking it in the asshole.I've lived in a country with pure socialized medicine. Have you? I opted to pay above and beyond the government provided care when I was sick, because the government's version was so shitty. Yeah, I went for profit rather than non-profit, and anyone with a brain and a paycheck did too.Anyway, Che, what were we talking about?This legislation is bad, not just because it's a horrible precedent to set, but because it's going to make things bad on people disproportionately more than it will help anyone. It's already fucking up healthcare, raising costs and adding mountains of burdensome bureaucracy, and wasn't that was it was supposed to fix? Edited June 28, 2012 by swingset Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crb Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 The working class, you may have met one before.Aren't most of us on here working class? I sure consider myself working class. I do not consider myself the working poor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twowheelsnake Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 Yeah, they're trying to prevent more of this from happeninghttp://articles.cnn.com/2009-06-05/health/bankruptcy.medical.bills_1_medical-bills-bankruptcies-health-insurance?_s=PM:HEALTH 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad324 Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 in preventing the above they are enabling possibly higher unemployment rate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buildit Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 That's it. Everyone is required by law to have a job. If you don't, you will be fined for not being able to make money.Oh shit I'm screwed. I hear Russia has some awsome riding areas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crb Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 Yeah, they're trying to prevent more of this from happeninghttp://articles.cnn.com/2009-06-05/health/bankruptcy.medical.bills_1_medical-bills-bankruptcies-health-insurance?_s=PM:HEALTHIs there a better reason for bankruptcies? Hospitals take payments. Basically we are making so people don't have to choose health insurance over an iPhone or new car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swingset Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 Yeah, they're trying to prevent more of this from happeninghttp://articles.cnn.com/2009-06-05/health/bankruptcy.medical.bills_1_medical-bills-bankruptcies-health-insurance?_s=PM:HEALTHYeah, and they've failed miserably. It merely shifts the harm and damage, but the damage is still there. There's no free healthcare, and when you play this retard shell game you merely put the burden onto someone who will have to shoulder the increase, or in the case of business provides less pay, less benefits, or won't hire you to begin with (or lays you off).Your Bruce Springsteen, Karl Marx sympathies not withstanding, this is just a completely fucked up piece of legislation that's already having waves of negative impacts, and it's not even implemented yet.It's going to fuck you, if you have any plans on holding down a good job or creating one. And, guess what? Even if you don't have those aspirations and want to play Xbox and smoke weed, it's still going to fuck you because it's going to negatively impact the care you DO get when you get sick. This will hurt the medical industry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twowheelsnake Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 Medical shouldn't be an industry, it should be a service. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.W. Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 Medical shouldn't be an industry, it should be a service.Services don't have mandates. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chevysoldier Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 What else will they force us to buy now? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buildit Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 Next law will be required foods that you must buy because they are good for you. No you can't grow your own veggies to save money either because that doesn't provide funds for people who can't afford their veggies and have had to sit on the couch eating Ho-ho's to the point that they can't move. Oh, beef is off the menu as well as bacon, alcohol and any form of cigarette. But this isn't prohibition or anything so please don't go black market, riot or complain because Nancy knows what you need. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crb Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 Medical shouldn't be an industry, it should be a service.Gas production shouldn't be an industry it should be a service. Education including college should be a service. Food should be a service (free) not an industry. Clean drinking water should be a service not an industry. New cars should service not an industry. Car repair should be a service not an industry. Hell why not make everything a service? Profit is evil! Everybody should make equal wages and receive equal products and services. Slippery slope. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swingset Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 Medical shouldn't be an industry, it should be a service.I hear you, comrade.Now, go to your local government office where they have a monopoly on whatever service you need....DMV, social security office, county health department and soak in the efficiency and awesome treatment you receive. Pay attention the plethora of waste, the long lines, the frustration and incompetence. Oh, look, everyone here looks like a diversity poster! Isn't this magical? Oh, look over there, that lady is asleep at her desk and there's only one window open for 35 of us.Now, that's gonna be your trip to the doctor for routine care when your infantile desires come to fruition.Again, I've lived that bullshit. Healthcare is not served by becoming an arm of a fucked up government...a government, btw, that might be in the hands of politicians completely different than the ones we have right now. Even if you trust THESE fucktards to do it right (they won't), do you trust every government from here on out?If so, you're fucking dumb. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chevysoldier Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 Next law will be required foods that you must buy because they are good for you. No you can't grow your own veggies to save money either because that doesn't provide funds for people who can't afford their veggies and have had to sit on the couch eating Ho-ho's to the point that they can't move. Oh, beef is off the menu as well as bacon, alcohol and any form of cigarette. But this isn't prohibition or anything so please don't go black market, riot or complain because Nancy knows what you need.Gas production shouldn't be an industry it should be a service. Education including college should be a service. Food should be a service (free) not an industry. Clean drinking water should be a service not an industry. New cars should service not an industry. Car repair should be a service not an industry. Hell why not make everything a service? Profit is evil! Everybody should make equal wages and receive equal products and services. Slippery slope.Now that we have crossed the line of the government mandating we buy something, all the stuff listed above is fair game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strictly Street Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 (edited) I'm still not following (and your link brings up a 404-esque error this time).If you're uninsured NOW -- then I want you to buy insurance since I'll still be footing YOUR bill for any medical issues you're involved in. Be it stubbing and breaking your toe, or getting into a car accident, or because you're fat and out of shape, or wrecking a bike while you're daydreaming about Obama being out of office in 6 more months -- unless you have some stockpile of funds that you plan on paying the hospital for your medical care.If you don't want insurance, because you're better at life and health than statistics, then pay your 1% of your income tax -- as a single man making near $70k/yr, you can afford the $695 to keep going w/o insurance.Odd that the link went away. I'm seeing the 404 now too, wonder why?Where did you get the idea that I make 70k?Your right that I don't have coverage now. Of course I haven't asked you to pay for anything in over 10 years even when I did have coverage, I didn't use it. Just lucky I guess.Looks like I'll just have to wait and see how much this is going to cost me. Oh, and thank you for the implication that I'm fat, stupid and clumsy. Way to make a point! You go man, your on a roll!I found another reference to the link, try this one:http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/politics/what-health-bill-means-for-you/# Edited June 28, 2012 by Strictly Street found link Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twowheelsnake Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 We're not in that great of shape for the amount of money we spend on health care per capita.http://rendezvous.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/06/28/u-s-health-care-costs-more-than-socialized-european-medicine/?partner=rss&emc=rss Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.W. Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 You're right, Europe is doing MUCH better Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mykill Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 As someone who has worked for a state ran medical facility for a brief time.... I couldn't believe how poor the care was/incompetent the medical workers were. It was over staffed, poorly managed, and a terrible place to work (no one was happy). I agree with swingset and never want that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crb Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 Odd that the link went away. I'm seeing the 404 now too, wonder why?Where did you get the idea that I make 70k?Your right that I don't have coverage now. Of course I haven't asked you to pay for anything in over 10 years even when I did have coverage, I didn't use it. Just lucky I guess.Looks like I'll just have to wait and see how much this is going to cost me. Oh, and thank you for the implication that I'm fat, stupid and clumsy. Way to make a point! You go man, your on a roll!**************************************************************CAUTION CAUTION CAUTION CAUTION CAUTION CAUTION CAUTION CAUTIONDO NOT FEED THE TROLL. I repeat do not feed the troll!****************************************************************** Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twowheelsnake Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 You're right, Europe is doing MUCH better Lol Europe is not in great shape for other reasons. Guess what...we're next. Analysts are predicting that the house of cards the rich have created is set to collapse worldwide by 2014. The signs are there that it's already in motion. And here we bicker about healthcare Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crb Posted June 28, 2012 Report Share Posted June 28, 2012 Lol Europe is not in great shape for other reasons. Guess what...we're next. Analysts are predicting that the house of cards the rich have created is set to collapse worldwide by 2014. The signs are there that it's already in motion. And here we bicker about healthcare Why do you hate the rich? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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