calling all bass heads/car audio gurus!

[oldschoolsdime92]

I am getting ready to start my box build,and I think I want to go with a ported box. I'm not 100% on that yet but thats why I have come to you folks. I'm planning on building a box that goes between the two jump seats, and under one of them(with the port on the side of the box under the side) The sub will fire into the back of the cab, so its concealed from would be thieves. Heres my sub TS-W252R - 10" Component Subwoofer with 600 Watts Max. Power | Pioneer Electronics USA

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-kIT4uwd4km2/p_130TSW252R/Pioneer-TS-W252R.html

I want to build my box like this. The company that made this no longer produces it.

So my questions are:

How do I figure my port length?

How do I go about figuring airspace on sucha funny shaped box?

is this sub even suitable for a ported box? I've been out of the car audio world for a very long time, and I just always remembered that I prefer a ported box. I have no problem building a sealed box if it won't work with what I have.

Edited July 29, 2012 by oldschoolsdime92

[donkason]

I am getting ready to start my box build,and I think I want to go with a ported box. I'm not 100% on that yet but thats why I have come to you folks. I'm planning on building a box that goes between the two jump seats, and under one of them(with the port on the side of the box under the side) The sub will fire into the back of the cab, so its concealed from would be thieves. Heres my sub TS-W252R - 10" Component Subwoofer with 600 Watts Max. Power | Pioneer Electronics USA

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-kIT4uwd4km2/p_130TSW252R/Pioneer-TS-W252R.html

I want to build my box like this. The company that made this no longer produces it.

So my questions are:

How do I figure my port length?

How do I go about figuring airspace on sucha funny shaped box?

is this sub even suitable for a ported box? I've been out of the car audio world for a very long time, and I just always remembered that I prefer a ported box. I have no problem building a sealed box if it won't work with what I have.

Port length calculator on www.the12volt.com.

Segment off the pieces and figure airspace on the box and each wing. Then add for a total. Make sure to factor in the thickness of the board you're using, it should be 3/4 MDF.

Go to pioneers website and download the manual for this speaker. Off the top of my head I would seal it. Ported boxes produce low grunting bass. Sealed boxes produce tight punchy bass but at a higher frequency. 10's are not built for super low frequency until you get into the high end stuff.

What kind of amp are you running? Ported boxes require less power than sealed but you want an amp that runs right at the top of the speakers RMS power range with the amps RMS power. The manual should give you the wattage specs for both applications.

[Helmutt]

You know more about car audio than I do Oldschool, but I've always been told ported enclosures produce more bass at lower volumes vs acoustic enclosures. I had a 2x12 acoustic box and found I could EQ for most any music type, whereas a friend of mine had a ported setup - he had trouble controlling bass output to gain more full range at higher volumes so its really up to you and your listening tastes.

Donkason sounds like he knows what he is talkin about and good link too, so thanx for that info.

For a 10" acoustic, you wont need much more than the taller center section of the box you've pictured. I'm pretty sure ported enclosures need more space than acoustic boxes do so you could get away without the side wings unless you seperate them from the main box for storage area. I am subscribed in case you need any brainless help:D

[oldschoolsdime92]

Donkason, thank you for your help! Heres my amp.

http://www.fusionpakistan.com/Product-Detail.php?CatId=2&SeriesId=2&ProductId=27

Its just some stuff I have scrounged up, recently wanting to get back into the car audio hobby. When I was younger I started an SPL build with a wall of 3 audiobahn 15s, but I was broke young and dumb, and just took a shot in the dark on box building. Anyways.

I have been using a program called winISD on this setup. It seems I can get a flatter response over a bigger frequency range with the ported box, vs the sealed. Heres a screen shot .

ported

sealed

I posted this up before I found said software.The way I understand this software is that the redline is your flatline, and you want your sub to be as close to that flat line for as long as possible. This sub/amp combo I have now, won't be around for real long, but it got me going cheap. When I replace said sub and amp, I will be getting a sub that fits the parameters of whatever box I build. I want to stick with a 10 due to space.

As for figuring air space, back in the day I always did BxWxH/1728. In my googling adventures on the interwebz that didn't exist in my world when I was playing with this crap before, I found this sweet little calculator that takes the material thickness in!

http://www.rockfordfosgate.com/rftech/box_wizard.asp

Edited July 29, 2012 by oldschoolsdime92

[rawlins87]

Port length calculator on www.the12volt.com.

Segment off the pieces and figure airspace on the box and each wing. Then add for a total. Make sure to factor in the thickness of the board you're using, it should be 3/4 MDF.

Go to pioneers website and download the manual for this speaker. Off the top of my head I would seal it. Ported boxes produce low grunting bass. Sealed boxes produce tight punchy bass but at a higher frequency. 10's are not built for super low frequency until you get into the high end stuff.

What kind of amp are you running? Ported boxes require less power than sealed but you want an amp that runs right at the top of the speakers RMS power range with the amps RMS power. The manual should give you the wattage specs for both applications.

LOL

Donkason, thank you for your help! Heres my amp.

http://www.fusionpakistan.com/Product-Detail.php?CatId=2&SeriesId=2&ProductId=27

Its just some stuff I have scrounged up, recently wanting to get back into the car audio hobby. When I was younger I started an SPL build with a wall of 3 audiobahn 15s, but I was broke young and dumb, and just took a shot in the dark on box building. Anyways.

I have been using a program called winISD on this setup. It seems I can get a flatter response over a bigger frequency range with the ported box, vs the sealed. Heres a screen shot .

ported

sealed

I posted this up before I found said software.The way I understand this software is that the redline is your flatline, and you want your sub to be as close to that flat line for as long as possible. This sub/amp combo I have now, won't be around for real long, but it got me going cheap. When I replace said sub and amp, I will be getting a sub that fits the parameters of whatever box I build. I want to stick with a 10 due to space.

As for figuring air space, back in the day I always did BxWxH/1728. In my googling adventures on the interwebz that didn't exist in my world when I was playing with this crap before, I found this sweet little calculator that takes the material thickness in!

http://www.rockfordfosgate.com/rftech/box_wizard.asp

You seem knowledgable in the subject. One thing with winISD though is its taking into box characterists in a room environment. You could design the perfect box in winISD but place it into a car and your totally off. You can add filters in winISD if youve plotted your vehicles cabin gain, but chances are you havent done that and if your just going to build one enclosure and call it a day its not necessary.

In the picture of the prefab box its good the port is offset to the side to use a corner. My only issue with the prefab box is the sub is located in the center. (i understand its for use of empty space and symmetry) but this WILL cause cancellation. If it were me i would use the farthest corner of the cab from the drivers seat as a loading wall.

Regardless whatever you build vehicles are difficult to build a perfect box for. Ive been building, designing, and competing for almost 10 years now.

Home audio is cake compared to cars

[magley64]

I'd listen to rawlins, he seems to know his shit.

[2talltim]

I just put 2 kicker cvr's in my tahoe and I was worried that they would bu underpowered now I need to dyno mat the whole roof to be able to turn them up..lol..so I guess they have plenty of power

[magley64]

I miss car audio...

don't have the money or patience for it right now, plus caddy's factory nav unit is remarakbly difficult to interface with.

Maybe my next car

[donkason]

If you are going to swap it out later I would just built the box without the wings and go sealed for simplicity sakes. As long as the box meets minimum air space requirements, usually .75 cubic ft or a tad less, you should be good to go. Then spend your time and energy finding a sub to meet the box application, then match an amp to the sub, then lose hearing.

Honestly a low grade 10' and amp will bang the cab of a truck so it should keep you happy while you're specing out the rest of your system.

[oldschoolsdime92]

I could loose the jump seat on the passengerside and put the sub where the port is. I just was hoping to retain a factory look. I have the sub in a 1cuft sealed now, but its just sitting back there and doesn't look clean.

[DTM Brian]

LOL

You knowz nothingz about getting loud and low........

[DTM Brian]

I'd listen to rawlins, he seems to know his shit.

I second this...

I was a made a believer when I heard on of his boxes with 4 8" tang bands get-n-busy on 500 watts. Josh knows his shit.

[rawlins87]

If you are going to swap it out later I would just built the box without the wings and go sealed for simplicity sakes. As long as the box meets minimum air space requirements, usually .75 cubic ft or a tad less, you should be good to go. Then spend your time and energy finding a sub to meet the box application, then match an amp to the sub, then lose hearing.

Honestly a low grade 10' and amp will bang the cab of a truck so it should keep you happy while you're specing out the rest of your system.

I'm still waiting on you to explain why 10s won't produce low frequency notes...as you stated above.

[rawlins87]

LOL

You knowz nothingz about getting loud and low........

Yes sadly this is true.

96 Dodge 3500 speakers don't produce teh lows

[DTM Brian]

I'm still waiting on you to explain why 10s won't produce low frequency notes...as you stated above.

Box is sitting in garage josh if you need it for a "demostration"

[DTM Brian]

Yes sadly this is true.

96 Dodge 3500 speakers don't produce teh lows

[DTM Brian]

Pretty sure my sealed box gets busy at 17 hz.

[oldschoolsdime92]

I almost fell out of my chair over the monkey pic!

[oldschoolsdime92]

Rawlins, when I go to upgrade is there any particular sub/amp combo you would recomend? I used to be all planet audio and audiobahn, and it seems both companies are kind of low end these days. I have been looking pretty heavily at sundown audio, specifically the sax 125.2 amp and the E series 10.

Edited July 29, 2012 by oldschoolsdime92

[donkason]

I'm still waiting on you to explain why 10s won't produce low frequency notes...as you stated above.

They do produce low frequency. I was meaning relative to 12 or 15 they don't go as low. I also mentioned "high end stuff" because all subs are not created equal. On most installs I've seen 10's aren't used in a ported box since 10's tend to be for space conscious installs. So most I've seen are in a small sealed enclosures which means the bass is not as low as a ported or large sealed enclosure.

So if your telling me a 10 can get that low I would assume because I've only heard 10's in certain enclosures I have made assumptions about the woofer that is incorrect and it's more about the box it sits in.

Which is it?

[oldschoolsdime92]

Well per the manufacturer I need 1.5 for a ported box. I can get 1.5 and still keep my jump seats. In the past I've always been partial to ported boxes, but never built one myself.

[rawlins87]

Sundown audio is good. I ran their 4500 (biggest amp at the time now they have a ns-1).

Their subs are good. Jacob usually keeps the t/s parameters around. 4-.6 qts so the subs would work well in a smaller ported box. I recommend the next level up from the E series (can't recall what it'd called at the moment

[oldschoolsdime92]

I've looked at sundown,re, and alpine. I think sundown is going to be the choice when its all said and done with. I'm going to build my box this coming weekend. I think I am still going to go with the center setup just so I don't loose my jump seats. As you said, its hard to build the "perfect" box.

I really dig the sundown sa 8 also. One thing that throws me for a loop is all of there subs have funny ohm ratings. The 8 has a a 3.36 ohm rating. Does that just get rounded to 4 or how does that work?

Edited July 29, 2012 by oldschoolsdime92

[jporter12]

I'm going to try to follow this, as I'm about 10+ years out of the loop on this stuff! LOL I think the subs in my car are over 10 years old!

Back in the day, I used nothing but Kicker for amps and subs. I had a single L7 12 in a sealed box in the Camaro with a DX700 amp pushing it, and a couple ZR120 amps for the mids and highs, which were Kicker, too. Alpine for head unit. Too bad somebody decided they needed it more than I did and ripped it all off, right in my driveway. Glad I moved out of Newark!

[oldschoolsdime92]

I'm going to try to follow this, as I'm about 10+ years out of the loop on this stuff! LOL I think the subs in my car are over 10 years old!

Back in the day, I used nothing but Kicker for amps and subs. I had a single L7 12 in a sealed box in the Camaro with a DX700 amp pushing it, and a couple ZR120 amps for the mids and highs, which were Kicker, too. Alpine for head unit. Too bad somebody decided they needed it more than I did and ripped it all off, right in my driveway. Glad I moved out of Newark!

I'm about 10 years out also. I just started researching again about a week ago to get caught back up with everything. Kicker stuff still seems to be decent, but for what your getting it seems to be very pricey. I always liked alpine headunits as well, and as yours did, mine was stolen.