Bad324 Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 everytime I see the thread title I think to myself "well duh, of course John Holmes has fans...he was a star among loosely moraled ladies" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magley64 Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 self defense is a justifying shooting. just because some asshole loses his mind, doesnt mean he should be allowed to go and kill whoever he wants with immunity.This would take a long drawn out thought experiment, and require a great deal of research that quite frankly, I don't have time for.Your brain is EVERYTHING, your morality, your aggression, your compassion, your entire life experience. If those synopses misfire, or there is a chemical imbalance there, your entire world can change, you could suddenly be in a place where everyone is out to kill you, and you feel the need to arm yourself to the teeth to survive...and that is "reality" to you.I don't think anyone understands the human brain well enough yet.Not that I'm saying, even if this is true for him, that he should be allowed to live... I personally feel that we "save" far too many people on this planet, and it is weakening "us" as a species...but that is a different discussion altogether.my only point was that you have 2 alleged murderers, with possibly the same motive (in their brain) and it seems impossible that someone would support one when you yourself support the other... there must be some sort of cognitive dissonance... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Butters Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 nobody gives a shit what was going on in his brain. he murdered, without a doubt, 12 innocent people in a premeditated attack.zimmerman murdered one person, in what MIGHT be a self defense situation. if it comes out that it was not self defense, then he should face the same penalty. not enough is known about this case to make a clear verdict.the holmes case has no questions to be answered about his actions....there is proof he did what he did, no matter what he believes in his mind (even if its self defense), the murders are not justifiable.theres a huge difference in real self defense, and self defense made up by a paranoid skitzo.assuming he even has a mental problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magley64 Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 nobody gives a shit what was going on in his brain. he murdered, without a doubt, 12 innocent people in a premeditated attack.zimmerman murdered one person, in what MIGHT be a self defense situation. if it comes out that it was not self defense, then he should face the same penalty. not enough is known about this case to make a clear verdict.the holmes case has no questions to be answered about his actions....there is proof he did what he did, no matter what he believes in his mind (even if its self defense), the murders are not justifiable.theres a huge difference in real self defense, and self defense made up by a paranoid skitzo.assuming he even has a mental problem.I'm going to make an assumption, correct me if I'm wrong, but you've got ZERO first hand experience with mental illness...Also, I find it quite amusing that you used the word "paranoid" considering how heavily armed you seem to be.So sir, please tell me what is "real"... Which is REALLY the better flavor, vanilla or chocolate? What is the REAL religion? Everyone doesn't experience the world in the same way, even if they are in the same place. Your mind can play tricks on you, sometimes these are small tricks, and sometimes they are big tricks, but it doesn't make them any less real to you...So please explain the deference between a "real" self defense scenario and "perceived" self defense scenario without the virtue of time travel to see if the defender would've actually died... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swingset Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 Magley's brain: Both guys used a guns. Guns are tools of violence and death. Only cowards and hate-mongers carry guns. If you shoot someone, you're the aggressor. Death is the inevitable result of a man carrying a tool designed for death, as it forces you to act on its inherent design. Thus, equal and comparable acts.Sane person's brain: Magley is scared of guns. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Butters Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 I'm going to make an assumption, correct me if I'm wrong, but you've got ZERO first hand experience with mental illness...Also, I find it quite amusing that you used the word "paranoid" considering how heavily armed you seem to be.So sir, please tell me what is "real"... Which is REALLY the better flavor, vanilla or chocolate? What is the REAL religion? Everyone doesn't experience the world in the same way, even if they are in the same place. Your mind can play tricks on you, sometimes these are small tricks, and sometimes they are big tricks, but it doesn't make them any less real to you...So please explain the deference between a "real" self defense scenario and "perceived" self defense scenario without the virtue of time travel to see if the defender would've actually died...you dont need first hand experience to know that its not OKAY for someone to go on a murdering spree just because they are sick in the head....if you honestly think its perfectly acceptable for someone to commit mass murder just because they have a mental problem, then you really are an idiot.....youre pretty much saying its no problem what he did, guess we should just give him a few more guns and release him from jail...i mean, hes sick and everything, he shouldnt be held accountable for his actionsalso - i like how you compare me to a paranoid skitzo and call me "heavily armed"....i own one firearm....yea...im heavily armedreal self defense is just that, real. if the actions taken directly saved the life of the person taking them, then it was a real self defesne scenario. i did not say that is zimmermans case, hence why i said MAYBE and that there isnt enough evidence being presented yet.perceived is not real. no matter how much you think this guy thought he was defending himself, if he had not opened fire on the movie theater, he would not have been harmed. that is a stone cold fact. nobody there did anything to attack him.are you seriously not understanding the difference between these two cases, or are you just grasping at straws to try and save face?its almost unreal to imagine that someone like you actually exists....i mean....its mind blowing that anybody would stand up for this piece of shit and say its no big deal because he is fucked in the head.go tell that to the families who lost their children and spouses and parents in that movie theater......knowing your dumb ass, you probably would....so make sure to take a video camera so we can all witness the ass beating that ensues. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coyote Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 So please explain the deference between a "real" self defense scenario and "perceived" self defense scenario without the virtue of time travel to see if the defender would've actually died... Just a thought: Assuming all of the events in each case took place (and I know you like to assume)… Pick a stranger, and have that someone pick a number between ‘1 and dead’ (and not tell you)…For the sake of argument, lay on the ground and have the stranger start banging your head against the concrete the unknown number of times. Now, you don’t know if he will continue until you actually die, or stop after the next impact (after which he may help you up and dust you off). At any point, do you feel your life was in danger? Now, think about a bunch of people watching a Batman movie. At any point, do you feel your life was in danger? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Butters Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 head is going to explode from derp overload.after the last couple posts in here.....i now know exactly how you feel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swingset Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 You can't reason with Magz. He's working off of emotion, off of fear.He'll admit it, over and over, just keep him talking.But be careful. If he's cornered, he'll give you the elbow. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad324 Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 He's working off of emotionyou know how else does this and are largely seen as excellent decision makers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magley64 Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 you dont need first hand experience to know that its not OKAY for someone to go on a murdering spree just because they are sick in the head....if you honestly think its perfectly acceptable for someone to commit mass murder just because they have a mental problem, then you really are an idiot.....youre pretty much saying its no problem what he did, guess we should just give him a few more guns and release him from jail...i mean, hes sick and everything, he shouldnt be held accountable for his actionsI made no such judgement, I was simply commenting on the OP's stance that nobody should support an alleged murderer, when he himself has shown support for an alleged murderer...also - i like how you compare me to a paranoid skitzo and call me "heavily armed"....i own one firearm....yea...im heavily armedmaybe you're paranoid, I'm no psychiatrist, but paranoia can build gradually...then again, maybe you're not...not for me to judge.real self defense is just that, real. if the actions taken directly saved the life of the person taking them, then it was a real self defesne scenario. i did not say that is zimmermans case, hence why i said MAYBE and that there isnt enough evidence being presented yet.perceived is not real. no matter how much you think this guy thought he was defending himself, if he had not opened fire on the movie theater, he would not have been harmed. that is a stone cold fact. nobody there did anything to attack him.you're positive of this? you were there? I don't think anything, but then I don't claim to have all the facts or all the answers... I'm just open to possibilities if someone can provide evidence to prove it...are you seriously not understanding the difference between these two cases, or are you just grasping at straws to try and save face?its almost unreal to imagine that someone like you actually exists....i mean....its mind blowing that anybody would stand up for this piece of shit and say its no big deal because he is fucked in the head.The difference? Yeah, I see plenty of differences...but there is one key similarity, both are alleged murderers...I'm not standing up for either one, I'm actually standing against both. Both are alleged murderers, both will stand trial, that's the right way to handle this...go tell that to the families who lost their children and spouses and parents in that movie theater......knowing your dumb ass, you probably would....so make sure to take a video camera so we can all witness the ass beating that ensues.tell them what? hmmm? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magley64 Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 You can't reason with Magz. He's working off of emotion, off of fear.I find this amusing...what emotion? What fear?please elaborate... Am i afraid of holmes getting convicted of murder and getting the death penalty? or am I afraid that he won't...I'm getting all emotional over here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Butters Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 you're positive of this? you were there? I don't think anything, but then I don't claim to have all the facts or all the answers... I'm just open to possibilities if someone can provide evidence to prove it...maybe the dumbest paragraph youve ever typed......maybe.what "evidence" do you need that nobody in that theatre was trying to kill him (especially before he even went there to know who was there)premeditation and self defense dont go hand in hand.its not like this guy got attacked by a mob of people for no reason and then pulled out his gun. he drove to a theater packed full of strangers with intent to do harm to them. the "evidence" is the fact that he carried long guns into a crowded theater, and then attacked people with them. not to mention the tear gas, and the explosives rigged to his apartment door.none of that says self defense. sorry bud, youre really grasping at straws.there was no self defense scenario going on here, real or perceived. i think youre the only person alive stupid enough to actually think he was just defending himself from those awful movie goers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magley64 Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 (edited) i think youre the only person alive stupid enough to actually think he was just defending himself from those awful movie goersI didn't say he was... you're the one making concrete claims, so you're the one with the burden of proof...All I'm saying is that you were NOT there, you have no idea what happened outside of what the media is feeding you.premeditation and self defense dont go hand in hand.what's the difference between premeditation, and preparation? Edited August 2, 2012 by magley64 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magley64 Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 Premeditation and preparedness? Really? Do you purposefully look for shit to ram your car into because you bought insurance?Could be, He said it didn't matter what was inside your head (your intentions/beliefs/etc...), just the actions that count...I could have bought insurance just so I could ram my car into something and be able to afford another car (in my case I hate my car, and it's worth double totalled what I could get out of it if I sold it) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Butters Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 (edited) I could have bought insurance just so I could ram my car into something and be able to afford another car (in my case I hate my car, and it's worth double totalled what I could get out of it if I sold it)and this pertain to this case how.....?also - in that case, you were not "preparing" for anything....buying insurance was a premeditated measure to crashing your own car....you didnt simply buy the insurance "just in case", you bought it will full intent to smash your car and commit fraud (premeditation to commit insurance fraud) Edited August 2, 2012 by Steve Butters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swingset Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 (edited) I find this amusing...what emotion? What fear?please elaborate... Am i afraid of holmes getting convicted of murder and getting the death penalty? or am I afraid that he won't...I'm getting all emotional over here I've already explained it to you, multiple times in fact, not going to burn any more calories telling you what you refuse to hear.I cannot possibly insult or damage you as well as you do with your own keyboard and goofball musings. Edited August 2, 2012 by swingset Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magley64 Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 and this pertain to this case how.....?preparation vs. premeditation Did you buy your gun just so you could use it to shoot someone? How do we know unless we take your mental state into account?also - in that case, you were not "preparing" for anything....buying insurance was a premeditated measure to crashing your own car....you didnt simply buy the insurance "just in case", you bought it will full intent to smash your car and commit fraud (premeditation to commit insurance fraud)I was "preparing" to crash a car...whether I intended to crash a car or not depends upon my mental state, but your argument is that it doesn't matter what my mental state is, only my actions, so anyone who buys insurance is premeditating to crash their car... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magley64 Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 I've already explained it to you, not going to burn any more calories telling you what you refuse to hear.you've explained nothing, you've asserted plenty... I'm willing to bet you're 10 times more "emotional" than I am. I'm not the type that makes "emotional" arguments, you are.You're the one who keeps invoking emotional pleas into your arguments. "should my old grandma be forced to deal with a punk, what about women and children?" blah blah blah all emotional pleas...Great job with the projection though, I think we both know you're the fearful one, justified or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Butters Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 (edited) ** Edited August 2, 2012 by Steve Butters double post lag Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Butters Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 magz has gone full retard.im done.im glad exarch is back, he doesnt seem so bad now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magley64 Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 oh, cause your own words don't support your original claim, "I've gone retard" got it...smells like... cop out 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbot Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 well that seems open and shut, zimmerman's gun, zimmerman's bullet, martin dead...slam dunkyou can't be for serial Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Butters Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 oh, cause your own words don't support your original claim, "I've gone retard" got it...smells like... cop outmy words were all supported, as were everybody else.nothing you say makes any sense at all....i feel like im trying to discuss physics with a rock...it just aint gonna happen, Holmie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magley64 Posted August 2, 2012 Report Share Posted August 2, 2012 you can't be for serialI take it you have doubts that Zimmerman shot and killed martin... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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