No more ding dongs!

[C-bus]

Brother is a Teamster. Cousin is/was Teamster driver for Hostess. It was the Bakers Union that just reduced dues revenue significantly.

[e-flores]

I know plenty of people on plenty of union lines and all of them have the same stories..... But I'm sure someone is going to pick up the recipes/machinery/rights to all of the iconic snacks that have been left by the wayside. I deliver to a place called American Pan in Urbana and they make the baking trays for all of hostes, wonder, and a bunch of smaller bake shops. They've been talking about this mess for the last couple of weeks and they've been saying that they've quoted a few other companies for trays and pans to make said iconic snacks.

[The Punisher]

!

[Kritz]

Seriuosly poser.... They still sell the s//t outta those things along a with a biggy called wonder bread. Ever heard of it....... The union IS what drove it into the ground, just like GM. They are nothing more than an exstortion racket anymore..... More money for less work. Why the hell do ya think everything gets built over seas anymore....... DUH

Heres a kick in the balls.... That same union is in dannon minster where my wife works.

Is she going to the Christmas party Tuesday the 27th? Kritz will be in attendance.

[Reimbrandt]

NO..... Smartass... she is actually in a "grey" area of the plant and isnt actually part of the union. So many who voted it in are smacking themselves now..... No they screwed up a really good thing

[Disclaimer]

Capitalism FTW!

[Kritz]

I never suck one without a contract.

[Disclaimer]

Capitalism is working in this instance. I don't see the issue' date=' honestly. Workers won't do the job for a little less to save the company. They're going out of business. They believe their labor is worth more than it is, and they're paying the price for it.

This should have happened with GM and Chrysler. Too bad it didn't.[/quote']

I agree with you that capitalism worked. But I don't view it in the same prism.

If I were a lineworker, regardless of being a union member or not, and my boss asked me for a 27-32% reduction in wage and benefits, I'd tell him to f*(k right off.

While the company was demanding major concessions from union workers (wage and benefit cuts amounting to 27- 32% overall), the top ten executives of the company rewarded themselves with compensation increases, with one executive receiving a 300 percent increase.

http://www.sacbee.com/2012/11/15/4988697/hostess-in-current-condition-because.html

It's one thing to ask the peons to accept current wages and benefits, it's another to reduce them when they're already working for peanuts. You can read more about the mismanagement and other financial troubles Hostess has had on your own, but capitalism works since people have apparently decided that Twinkies cost too much and therefore need to cease their existence under the Hostess brand.

It's fine line to make the Hostess and GM/Chrsyler analogy because the situations are different and affect a vastly different amount of people, but Hostess is doing the exact same thing GM and Chrysler would've had to've done, given the Chap 11 Bankruptcy they're filing -- it'll be a reorg with a judge deciding whether or not they still have to honor the union contract...

[ReconRat]

So just tell us what the pay rate range was for these workers facing a 27-32% pay cut.

[JohnG]

So just tell us what the pay rate range was for these workers facing a 27-32% pay cut.

[ninjachic]

[Tpoppa]

If I were a lineworker, regardless of being a union member or not, and my boss asked me for a 27-32% reduction in wage and benefits, I'd tell him to f*(k right off.

Were their rates really cut that much or did they just stop getting overtime? 2 different things. Most people couldn't swallow a 30% pay cut. You shouldn't count on OT in the first place.

[Revelstoker]

Unions have a roll in this for sure. If we believe they would rather have a 100% pay cut vs. 8%, then they are stupid.

What is executive pay and how much of a reduction did the executives take to save the company.

If saving the company was really the goal, then everyone should have had their pay reduced to a level that produced a positive balance sheet. If the base rate was $35, $50k a year, then that is what it is.

Hedge fund owners obviously see more in a breakup and salvage than ongoing operations.

Personally, the problems come from the products. They have F'ed with the formulations over the years in attempt to lower costs where the products taste like shit. Hostess Cupcakes used to rock and with the resurgence of cupcakes, Hostess should have been able to capitalize. But, they didn't. Tasteless, plastic frosting crap. Little donuts taste like sand as they are usually so dried out. I used to love those things. Crumbcakes, same deal.

Wonderbread, only wonder is why it ever sold. Shit is like 90% water with little to no nutritional benefit.

Smart people, collectively stupid. How many Union leaders are out of a job????

[ReconRat]

What they turned down was an 8% cut. Where the other percents come from, unknown.

The only pay rate I can find, is that a baker union receiving clerk there earned 48k.

The national average baker wage is 21k to 36k. (25 percentile to 75 percentile)

Baker wages for new hires have fallen nation wide a huge 32% to 46% from the end of 2010.

edit: similar to typists on typewriters, food prep has gone automated and workers aren't needed much anymore.

Perhaps these bakeries still had old school equipment and were not competing well with newer bakeries.

There used to be a bagel makers union, and it went totally automated and gone. Merged with bakers union.

Edited November 16, 2012 by ReconRat

[jester3681]

I'm not trying to choose sides here, and in the interest of full disclosure, I am a dues paying member and official in a Union, but it sounds to me like the ship was already sunk, management came out with a last ditch effort to keep things rolling. The concessions they asked for were unacceptable, so the company folded. Now it looks like the union was to blame because they were the last ones to say "No."

I'm not saying they were right or wrong, but to say it was the union's fault when the company was already doomed seems a bit near sighted. If my work was to tell me my insurance was going up dramatically coupled with a cut in hours and a decrease in pay, I'd be looking for a new job. I honestly don't think there are many rank and file Americans that can afford this type of cut - most of us are more or less living paycheck to paycheck, stashing a little when times are good and having to dip in when times are bad. Union or not.

And not to get all "union" on you, but for those of you that are pissing and moaning about unions, keep in mind that overtime and the forty hour work week, most benefits you may enjoy, most work-place safety programs and most company ethics watchdogs are the results of the unions. And there are still some industries where the unions are not only still there, but are absolutely necessary. If you don't think so, come walk the ballast with me at 3 am on Thanksgiving Day. We'll have a nice talk about it...

[Tpoppa]

And not to get all "union" on you, but for those of you that are pissing and moaning about unions, keep in mind that overtime and the forty hour work week, most benefits you may enjoy, most work-place safety programs and most company ethics watchdogs are the results of the unions. And there are still some industries where the unions are not only still there, but are absolutely necessary. If you don't think so, come walk the ballast with me at 3 am on Thanksgiving Day. We'll have a nice talk about it...

There is some truth to that. But, the 'hayday' of the union has definitely come and gone. I would say that in many (not all) industries, unions have outlived thier usefullness.

[ReconRat]

...the ballast with me at 3 am on Thanksgiving Day. We'll have a nice talk about it...

Sounds like fun, actually. Railroad? Railroads needed unions. It was a dangerous job with a fatality rate awful close to one in four. The union changed that, with a lot of work. Safety can be a good thing if people value life.

[ReconRat]

Yes, unions are declining in membership. I've seen a few charts/maps.

Might as well throw them in here:

Overall, the percent of population in unions has fallen from around 29% in 1964 to 13% in 2010.

Change in Union Representation, 2001 to 2011

http://www.incontext.indiana.edu/2012/mar-apr/images/unionsMap_fig3.gif

http://cdn.theatlantic.com/static/mt/assets/richard_florida/assets_c/2011/03/Florida_Unions_3-10_chart1-thumb-600x463-44295-thumb-570x439-44296.png

Edited November 16, 2012 by ReconRat

[Tpoppa]

sounds like fun, actually. Railroad? Railroads needed unions. It was a dangerous job with a fatality rate awful close to one in four. The union changed that, with a lot of work. Safety can be a good thing if people value life.

osha?

[ReconRat]

osha?

lol, even a union fears OSHA...

[QuikAccord]

lol, even a union fears OSHA...

+1

[cOoTeR]

Why take a pay cut to do the same amount of work when you can take a pay cut and not work at all with unemployment? I've met quite a few people that have gotten on unemployment and felt its better than honest work. Especially if they can find odd jobs under the table some can actually make more money while on unemployment.

[Disclaimer]

I'm still of the opinion that if you were asked to take a wage cut when you knew the upper mgmt wasn't willing to take the same and in fact increased their wages, I would rather force the business into liquidation than to sit there and take it from upper mgmt.

Yea, I'll take my unemployment and find a different job in the interim, but I sure as hell aren't going to make life easy for the management who agreed to the contract in the first place.

Just like the bank doesn't care if I get laid off or business if bad (assuming I'm self-employed), my contract w/ them still says I owe them mortgage each month. If the CEOs agreed to the union contract, then they should be obligated to pay... and if that means increasing the price of Twinkies to $5 a box instead of $4/box then that's what it takes... it's a failure on mgmts part to agree to the contract and not see the market would not bear $5/box for Twinkies.

But, that's fine... blame the union workers, scapegoat them for not working with management... just like how you blame the bank for not working with homeowners when they can't pay their mortgage. Oh wait, no, it's still the little guys fault for entering an agreement where he should've known it was unsustainable. It's ALWAYS the little guys' fault for not working with the "job creators" / fatcats.

[Reimbrandt]

Blood from cupcakes....... ?!?

[swingset]

I don't blame the union. I blame the owner(s). They mismanaged that company into oblivion. Sucks that everyone lost their job' date=' but I guess that happens when you try to squeeze blood from a cupcake. Nobody wants their disgusting treats, or they'd be raking in the dollars.

Same for GM and Chrysler. Mismanaged and poor ownership. Union cost is irrelevant. If you can't afford the union, fire everyone and hire scabs. There's no way anybody would tell me how I was going to run my business. I'd shut that bitch down in a NY minute.[/quote']

You can blame the unions too, that nearly billion dollar pension was the massive creditor in their bankruptcy....far and away the largest drain on the company (and that only represented a portion of their workforce). The union was an unshakable anchor on their bottom line, handicapped them from ever climbing out of financial trouble even if they had great management (which they did not). Several times investors tried to right the ship, but they don't have the market or the latitude to do it with all that dead weight.

Now, it seems they do. The whole thing was a failure, but the free market is a beautiful thing...if Twinkies are what people want, someone will buy the rights and make them profitable again....this time maybe without a bunch of ticks that refuse to let up slurping on a dying dog.