For the pro-AWBers

[Bad324]

Okay, what does that mean?

Everyone needs a government mandated mental health screening before they can buy a gun? before they can vote? Before they turn 21? every 2 years? every 5 years? What rights are dependent upon the results of those screenings? Is this paid for by tax payers? Is this a requirement to live in this country?

lots of questions and details.

just in general. This whole issue is being blamed on a type of gun that from what I'm aware of wasn't used. If I'm wrong on this please let me know as I haven't been able to read up much on what has been discovered because it sickens me far too much. If you ask me, the problem lies within the decision making of not only that mentally ill bastard but also what seems like his moronic mother

Obama will pay for it, he pays for everything else amiright?

Signed,

The Feeble Minded Dego who is only here to fuck shit up with more stupidity, fear and irrational comments

[Brownsfan1]

Pass the popcorn pls

Coming right up.

[scottb]

What would Bob Costas do?

[jbot]

okay, if a AWB won't help, what will?

again, so eager to jump from conclusion to conclusion

remember that i never made a comment about whether an AWB would help in situations like what happened in Connecticut. Only as a response to you saying that if we were to be attacked by a foreign or domestic military, we, the people, would be woefully lacking in fire power. i responded to your point by saying, that a AWB would be counter productive, considering that we are so under equipped as it is. in short, i actually made that reply as a tongue in cheek, cheeky response like i am want to do, and you went full retard in response.

on what you're asking:

the reason i didn't make a vast, over reaching statement at the onset is because i'm not a playing pompous, know it all, over reacting, nut bar who thinks he knows everything.

as it pertains to the most recent tragedy, the proposed and previous "assault weapons (lol)" ban would probably have failed to prevent the shooter from obtaining the guns he used because he just used/had (at the scene) guns that would have been legal to own (hand guns) or rifles that were already owned and would have been grand fathered by prior and current AWBs. every time a AWB is even hinted at, the massholes go out and buy a shit ton of guns. it's kind of counter productive in that way (i'm not saying that that is ALL it is).

as those who do not abide by the law always do, he got access to the guns he used by illegal means. believe it or not, the currently existing laws PREVENTED him from buying a gun via legal channels. an AWB primarily affects law abiding citizens (for obvious reasons). law abiding citizens, statistically, do not commit mass media feeding frenzy murder-sprees... the mentally ill/depraved/handicapped do.

current procedures do an ok job of filtering out those with felonies and have a review process for other "less serious" criminal history (although, those fail sometimes, and are generally too broad, in my opinion... i also think they do not focus enough on violence/intent to physically harm versus just classifying things b ). they do not have a very good way to filter out mental illness because not everyone gets treated and documented... they just go on and on until they snap and do awful things. i have no answer for that particular gaping hole in the system without seriously breaching personal privacy and other issues that I find just as important as having access to equipment for self defense.

generally, if i had to take a stab at it:

education that was more readily available, and very much encouraged for any new and current gun owner (kind of like the MSF). i wouldn't go as far as saying require it by law, but i think it would help.

advertising campaign targeted towards gun owners to be more aware of central causes of how perpetrators of shootings get access to guns, and how they can take precautions against likely occurrences. again, ad campaign should be thoroughly linked to education resources that are readily available.

here's where we get "us vs them" and start infringing on personal privacy, but again, wild ass guessing/reaching for possible solutions. a flagging system for mental health professionals that is accessed when the NICS check is conducted. this is distasteful to me because i abhor the patriot act, but i dunno... it's a real problem. perhaps they can "opt out" of it when they go in for psychological/psychiatric treatment (depending on what they are diagnosed with) but while the specifics of what diagnosis wont be filed but they agree to be automatically excluded from being able to purchase fire arms.

all these ideas are flawed, but i still think it's better than infringing on 2A while not horribly infringing on personal property and privacy.

[speedytriple]

Problem solved the gruberment should ban mental illness.

[magley64]

just in general. This whole issue is being blamed on a type of gun that from what I'm aware of wasn't used. If I'm wrong on this please let me know as I haven't been able to read up much on what has been discovered because it sickens me far too much. If you ask me, the problem lies within the decision making of not only that mentally ill bastard but also what seems like his moronic mother

Obama will pay for it, he pays for everything else amiright?

Signed,

The Feeble Minded Dego who is only here to fuck shit up with more stupidity, fear and irrational comments

I haven't blamed anything on an object. I don't believe it has some magical voodoo powers to make people do things they wouldn't otherwise do. What it does do is make it easier and quicker for someone in a compromised mental/emotional state to do more damage.

(According to the reports I heard, the coroner said the kids were in fact killed with the rifle)

Mental health in general is great, but how do you improve on the system we already have without infringing on people's rights?

[max power]

and 3 year olds? your partial retard is showing

that is because you are a simpleton when it comes to debates like this.

don't let your tard rage get the best of you. it just makes you easy pickings.

That boy is so retarded about the real world he should be a college professor.

[magley64]

That boy is so retarded about the real world he should be a college professor.

I have considered it...

[speedytriple]

"but how do you improve on the system we already have without infringing on people's rights?"

But you seem to be ok with the loss of personal freedoms? Or you only want to remove the rights you don't agree with?

[jbot]

...Again, was written in the 1700s when everyone had access to the same weapons... Please tell me where I can get a SR-71 blackbird (even if I had the money) or purchase a cruise missile...hey I got a huge tax return, and christmas bonus. Where do i go to order an aircraft carrier?

The scale is already absurdly skewed, if the evil government attacked the citizens, assault weapons won't save us.

as far as a potential uprising against a tyrannical government, seriously, you keep saying we'd be really outmatched and out gunned and that the founders did not have JSF's, abrams, ICBMs, smart bullets, unicorns in mind when they drafted the 2nd amendment.

shouldn't, you, mr. libertarian, just be outraged that things got so uneven? to abide by the 2nd amendment, there SHOULD be a wholly non-government owned (but funded, since it IS the peoples tax dollars) militia that is equally matched to serve as a check against the over reaching federal government?

you even suggested it earlier. i think it's a fantastic idear.

[Tpoppa]

Knee jerk reactions are rarely the right answer.

No matter if you love, hate, or are indifferent about guns...a mass killing in an elementary school is scary as fuck.

I've heard the knee jerk reaction to ban guns. From the other side, I've heard the knee jerk reaction to arm all teachers. These are both fucking terrible ideas.

The question everyone should be asking is why would a mother train her son to be proficient with weapons...a son who she, and the school feared was mentally ill??? We are going to hear a lot more about this as the investigation develops.

I think identifying and treating mentall illness is the ultimate solution. But it's not going to happen overnight.

Schools are gun free zones. Apparently, psychos interpret this as a place to inflict damage with little resistance. Onsite security guards or police could change that perception, but that would cause other problems. 1. Schools can barely afford books and they can't afford to pay armed guards either. 2. Do we really want children growing up thinking they need to see an armed guard to feel safe? Of course not.

What if the Air Marshall model was applied to schools? What if 2-3 staff members at each school were trained to be school 'Marshalls?' They could have access to a weapon stored in a safe in a secret location within the school? They would be able to respond faster than the 10 minutes it took for CT police to get to the school? Plus, just like an Air Marshall, their identities could remain secret until they had reason to reveal themselves...which we all hope would never be necessary.

I am not 'married' to this idea, but I think it's worth discussing. It may be enough to make a badguy think twice about targeting a school.

Edited December 17, 2012 by Tpoppa

[kawi kid]

I'll be the first to admit, I don't know a thing about any of the guns.

I never bothered to study them. However, if handed a loaded functioning one, they are so intuitive that I bet I could get bullets to come out the business end towards a target... ultimately damaging or destroying it.

That's funny because I took a new shooter to the range this weekend and got him behind a pistol for the first time. His target was an 18"x30" cardboard with a 5" circle and a 9" circle from 21 feet. The first two mags he never hit the cardboard once. After some instruction from me on proper grip stance and trigger control it got better but not effective enough for for self defense So tell me again how you are going to upload matrix style info and destroy shit.

[Gunner75]

"but how do you improve on the system we already have without infringing on people's rights?"

But you seem to be ok with the loss of personal freedoms? Or you only want to remove the rights you don't agree with?

Hes ok with being a victim and praying that in a situation where he is assaulted with a gun that the police will be able to come and save him.

[CoolWhip]

That's funny because I took a new shooter to the range this weekend and got him behind a pistol for the first time. His target was an 18"x30" cardboard with a 5" circle and a 9" circle from 21 feet. The first two mags he never hit the cardboard once. After some instruction from me on proper grip stance and trigger control it got better but not effective enough for for self defense So tell me again how you are going to upload matrix style info and destroy shit.

It's simple. He's better than us.

[jbot]

I have considered it...

seriously, i'm curious. where is your BA/BS in engineering from? you can't go this far liberal from a normal college education. i recently had to put a puppy down from Yale regarding the use of guns for self protection.

i'm just a dumb ass who went to, as one kid put it a long time ago, "stupid-fuck state university" and nobody there brain washed crazy ideas that infringing on something from the bill of rights is a libertarian ideal.

[Brownsfan1]

Hes ok with being a victim and praying that in a situation where he is assaulted with a gun that the police will be able to come and save him.

Hope the police response time is up to par.

[speedytriple]

He does have super elbows if he is attacked don't you know!

[magley64]

"but how do you improve on the system we already have without infringing on people's rights?"

But you seem to be ok with the loss of personal freedoms? Or you only want to remove the rights you don't agree with?

I'm all for freedom, but we as a society have agreed to limiting destructive power in principle, we're just constantly squabbling over the details.

I'm sure there is a destructive limit that you would place on weapons intended for sale by the general public, yes? (for example do you think RPG's should be carried around by just anyone?)

Each of us draws that line somewhere a little different.

My personal views differ from my political views, but I don't see the need for every day citizens to have weapons intended for war environments.

[Gunner75]

He does have super elbows if he is attacked don't you know!

Yeah totally possible

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICDG24NkYyc

[Brownsfan1]

He does have super elbows if he is attacked don't you know!

Are they full auto or semi?

[Disclaimer]

Where's the line for the Phalanx's? I want one for the roof of my house with RFID tags I can hand out to people for IFF purposes.

All else, trespass at your own risk.

[magley64]

Hes ok with being a victim and praying that in a situation where he is assaulted with a gun that the police will be able to come and save him.

Hope the police response time is up to par.

No, I'm just not afraid of ever being attacked with a gun...

My world is apparently a little more care free than yours.

[Cheech]

The question everyone should be asking is why would a mother train her son to be proficient with weapons...a son who she, and the school feared was mentally ill??? We are going to hear a lot more about this as the investigation develops.

If I may indulge in wild speculation, I'd say she's been doing it since they were a young age, because she enjoyed the hobby and to instill respect for the weapon to her children, just as a responsible gun owner would and many on this forum already do. His mental condition may not have developed until he got older, but who knows. I think you're right, we will (or at least, should) hear more about this as things develop.

[Gunner75]

I don't see the need for every day citizens to have weapons intended for war environments.

Since when was an AR15 or an AR10 an assault rifle? Neither are capable of full auto fire without some serious upgrades, all of which are strictly enforced and regulated.

[speedytriple]

"but I don't see the need for every day citizens to have weapons intended for war environments."

Neither do I But the guns you speak of are not the same that are intended for war environments. Last I checked I can not walk into my LGS and walk out with a full auto chain fed weapon of war. Nor can I walk in and buy a full auto assult rifle. I can (for now at least) walk in and buy a SEMI auto version that was meant for sport/recreational use.