If I were writing a new gun control bill...

[Scruit]

There is allot more to the story that we are not hearing, and we may never know the real truth. There are too many things about the whole shooting and how it was handled that just isn't adding up. The total confusion or "lying/cover-up" about weapons used, people interviewed, 2nd shooter possibility "guy in the woods", Adam's brother, how Adam got the ID, where is the Father, the lack of EMT/Paramedics on scene, Facebook donation pages, the medical examiner acting "very strange", interviews with parents on TV.....etc. I am thinking coverups and smoke and mirrors tactics being used, why the purpose of that is what really bothers me. Today is the big day when King Obama gets to review the weapons bans, we shall see how that all plays out much sooner than later.

- Adam's brother Ryan is a tax dude in New Jersey and was at work at the time of the shooting. http://www.voxxi.com/ryan-lanza-brother-shooter-wrong-id/

- Adam's father claimed the body, so his whereabouts are no longer unknown to the police / of concern. http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/31/us/connecticut-newtown-shooting/index.html

- Had not heard anything about lack of paramedics on scene. i can imagine they were kept back until the shooter was known to be dead and the second shooter was identified or ruled out.

- Second shooter was ruled out but nobody every explained the guy in the woods. Anyone hear the outcome form that?

- I'd heard a suggestion that the medical examiner lied about the AR being the murder weapon, but that's based upon the news reports, and we all saw how confused those news reports were in the beginning. How many guns, what type, was his mother a teach, did she die at the school? All of that was eventually clarified. Not saying the ME is NOT lying, just saying that you'd need more than a disparity between his final report and the original confused news reports to make me think it's anything other than confused news reports.

I'm not seeing the conspiracy here.

Edited January 15, 2013 by Scruit

[swingset]

9. Mass shooting equals public hanging. Just as it says. Bring back public hangings for those who commit these heinous crimes. I vote for that

Most mass shooters off themselves. Do you think this is a deterrent? And, the others are so desperate for attention that they'll murder 30 people so the world can feel their pain. Hanging one that lives through it isn't going to scare off the next Adam Lanza...in fact it might play right into his desperation...expecially if there's a media circus about it.

If you wanna kill them just to have the world rid of them, ok that's an argument but it's not going to stop these things from happening.

The one guaranteed way to end or severely lessen these types of shootings is to stop publicizing them, but then that's never going to happen. The proof of this is every time we have a big one, there's rashes of copycats that get caught or attempt something lamely similar immediately afterwards. The circus fuels the desperate/crazies to want their share of the media attention.

[BDBGoalie]

If I were writing a new gun control bill, I'd include the following:

1. Background checks for all firearms sales. I figured I'd get this one out of the way first since it's going to piss off my fellow firearm brethren. I think the NICS e-check system should be open to the public. It does not return nor validate any personal information. It would not be a security risk to open this system to the public. There could be mobile apps even, so you could run a check right from your smart phone. This is an FBI database already paid for by taxpayer money. Let's open it up. Enforcement of this would be fairly impossible without a gun registry. I'm not okay with that. However, if it's found that you sold a firearm to someone without running the background check and they were not legally able to purchase said firearm, you should be charged. If they committed a crime with said firearm, you should be charged as an accomplice to the crime. I believe this would keep a lot of firearms out of the wrong hands.

It is a good thought, but I'm not a fan of it. IMO, if a personal sale does a background check to verify the buyer is legal, there also needs to be a transfer of ownership in the registration. The serial needs to follow the new buyer, and not stay with the seller.

2. Mental health records from any taxpayer funded databases included in NICS e-check. The common denominator in the majority of the mass shootings is diagnosed mental instability. This cannot be left up to a person to answer honestly on a questionnaire. Veteran records, Social Security records, public health records, etc should all be a part of NICS. All mental health records should be submitted to NICS, and left up to the FBI whether said records should keep someone from owning a firearm. I'd recommend a panel of judges or such. Should you be disallowed firearm ownership for being on anti-depressants? Not necessarily. Shit happens. Should you be disallowed for a history of depression and aggression? Oh yeah.

I agree that the country is too sensitive and mental problems are rampant. This information needs to be reported immediately. No more sealing of mental health records. If you are taking ANY drug that significantly alters your mental state, that should factor into your background check.

3. No more gun free zones. They don't work, and nobody can honestly argue this one. The vast majority of mass shootings in the United States have happened in gun free zones. They're as useless as drug free zones.

Hell yes. Well said.

4. Training, training, training. We encourage pregnant couples to take pregnancy classes. We force teens to take driving classes. My employer encourages me to take training every year. To obtain a CCW permit, we require basic handgun training. We require hunters education training for obtaining a hunting license. Why do we not at least encourage training for the ownership/purchase of sporting rifles and handguns? Ignorance is not bliss when firearms are involved. I received my first official firearm training in Boy Scouts using a .22 bolt-action rifle. The sad reality is that alone put me leaps and bounds above a large number of firearm owners. Training should be much more prevalent and encouraged, and possibly even required to take your firearm out in public.

Training is one of the most important parts. You need to develop the skills used to properly work the firearm, which require repetitive action and muscle memory.

CCW training is laughable. 10 hours of classroom instruction and shooting at a silhouette at 7 feet proves you're not a moron.

5. Military veterans and active duty, along with retired police officers, should immediately be able to obtain a CCW permit without additional training. Some states have this already. It should be across the board.

Police officers and MPs could potentially be exempted from the training courses. That still leaves a void where they don't know the specific laws of the area and CPZs.

Military training is all about combat in a combat zone, and working as a unit. This style of combat is not the same as solo daily carry in civilian populace. ROE and EOF aren't applicable in CCW situations.

The average soldier gets a rifle; only officers usually are assigned pistols. The CCW trainees need to demonstrate proficiency with their selected weapon system.

It is a responsibility to carry a weapon, because you have a duty to defend yourself and others. However, you also have to make the right decisions in those instances based on all factors involved.

CCW training should be a full day of situational shooting (Drawing from a holster, firing from cover, moving and shooting, etc), and another day of psychological training and law coverage. A mental health exam should also be required.

6. CCW reciprocity agreement with all CCW states. The reality is most states require the same training and background checks. These states should all honor each others' CCW permits. For instance, as an OHIO CCW holder, I cannot conceal carry in Georgia. However, if I pay the fee and drop off the application in Pennsylvania with no additional training or requirements, I can then conceal carry in Georgia using the Pennsylvania CCW permit. Does that make any sense? My drivers license is good in all 50 states even though different states have different age requirements, driving test requirements, etc. My CCW, which all states require the same age and basically the same training, should certainly be honored.

Reciprocity agreements across the board would be wonderful, but it will never happen. The laws would have to be exactly the same. That would require agreement from all states as to laws and CPZs, which CA/NY/IL... will never agree to. The federal government will also never agree to a bill for the entire US.

7. Mandatory death penalty for murder. Period. No more prison sentences with chances of parole. Death. You willingly, maliciously take the life of someone else, you lose yours. Whether you use your fists, a knife, a gun, or whatever, it doesn't matter. Murder is murder.

Nope. Death penalty is the easy way out. Life in prison in solitary with no chance for parole forces them to do nothing but think about what they did until they die.

Not to mention the appeals process is more costly than feeding a prisoner for life.

I personally like the idea of dressing them in western clothing with anti-Islam messages, and air dropping them in NE Afghan.

8. Stiffer penalties for crimes committed with firearms is idiotic. Make the penalties stiffer across the board. Whether you mug someone at gunpoint or with a ball-point pen doesn't really matter. The crime was the same, the penalty should be the same.

Agreed. I also like the idea used in VA where if a crime is committed with a weapon your jail sentence is carried out on the other side of the country.

9. Mass shooting equals public hanging. Just as it says. Bring back public hangings for those who commit these heinous crimes.

It won't scare the shooters. Most go in there with intent to kill themselves once cornered. Need a true scare tactic, like if captured alive, we torture you to death. Or ship you to Afghan.

I'm sure I'll come up with more. Please, give me your input and your suggestions. Gun owners, what would you be willing to concede in order to work together on logical, meaningful, useful gun legislation? What do you want to see? Gun opponents, what say you? Let's let this be a civil conversation.

+

Background checks through FFLs. Not ideal but it makes sure ownership and registration is correct and follows the right owner.

Unseal and report mental health records.

Create a functional system for all felonies/mental records that can be quickly accessed and is constantly updated.

-

AWB is stupid. The type of weapon isn't to blame. The nut jobs will use anything they can to accomplish their task.

10rd mags are stupid. I can change a mag while staying on target in about .5 seconds. This will have no effect.

Of course, all gun laws will only effect law abiding citizens. So this is all a moot point anyways.

Edited January 18, 2013 by BDBGoalie
Grammar

[zx3vfr]

If I were writing a new gun control bill, I'd include the following:

4. Training, training, training. We encourage pregnant couples to take pregnancy classes. We force teens to take driving classes. My employer encourages me to take training every year. To obtain a CCW permit, we require basic handgun training. We require hunters education training for obtaining a hunting license. Why do we not at least encourage training for the ownership/purchase of sporting rifles and handguns? Ignorance is not bliss when firearms are involved. I received my first official firearm training in Boy Scouts using a .22 bolt-action rifle. The sad reality is that alone put me leaps and bounds above a large number of firearm owners. Training should be much more prevalent and encouraged, and possibly even required to take your firearm out in public.

no no no no no, owning a firearm is a right, driving is a privilege and pregnancy classes are a joke, women have given birth for millions of years without any classes

5. Military veterans and active duty, along with retired police officers, should immediately be able to obtain a CCW permit without additional training. Some states have this already. It should be across the board.

again no, they are citizens as well and should have the same standards as anyone, its helping create the 4th socio-economic class know as the protected government worker, they are called civil servants for a reason

7. Mandatory death penalty for murder. Period. No more prison sentences with chances of parole. Death. You willingly, maliciously take the life of someone else, you lose yours. Whether you use your fists, a knife, a gun, or whatever, it doesn't matter. Murder is murder.

and no me has the right to play God, except when defending your own life

8. Stiffer penalties for crimes committed with firearms is idiotic. Make the penalties stiffer across the board. Whether you mug someone at gunpoint or with a ball-point pen doesn't really matter. The crime was the same, the penalty should be the same.

i hope you are also for getting rid of hate crimes too

9. Mass shooting equals public hanging. Just as it says. Bring back public hangings for those who commit these heinous crimes.

again, you want to play God, lead by example

Oh lord

[Pokey]

The hell if we don't have the right to play God and severely punish those that have lost all of their rights to the generally public. If you are on death row you need to die....if you have a life sentence with no possibility for parole you need to die. Think of the money that tax payers would save, think of the criminals that might think twice about committing a violent crime, rape, molestation, murder etc!!!!

[crb]

Not accurate huh?

This page: http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2013/01/14/poll-gun-control-that-americans-support/

Links to this study: http://www.people-press.org/2013/01/14/in-gun-control-debate-several-options-draw-majority-support/

Which says:

Every study we come up with to show that gun control is not wanted, they will come back with one that shows it IS.

That's because people believe in biased medias reporting on "gun show loop hole"

Ask someone if their father should be able to give them or sell them a firearm without a background check and see what their answer is. Sheeple envision guys in scary outfits selling full auto assault weapons via the "gun show loop hole". Of course the sheeple believe AR stands for Assault Rifle instead of ArmAlite Rifle.

[speedytriple]

My gun control option is use both hands to better hit the target.

[crb]

My gun control option is use both hands to better hit the target.

Yep! Although I tend to shoot revolvers one handed.

[zx3vfr]

The hell if we don't have the right to play God and severely punish those that have lost all of their rights to the generally public. If you are on death row you need to die....if you have a life sentence with no possibility for parole you need to die. Think of the money that tax payers would save, think of the criminals that might think twice about committing a violent crime, rape, molestation, murder etc!!!!

Using that logic, there should be no murders being committed as people are still executed in this country.

You want to talk about devaluations life, I pray every night for an end to abortion and an end to the death penalty.

You say if you are in prison for life without parole you need to die. They will go when it is their time, they made a huge mistake by doing what they did to end up there, but do they really need to die? That is playing God, the bible teaches it is wrong, like for real. The bible teaches forgiveness and while a murderer played god, no one has the right to, not me you or the state, just lock them up for life, 99.9% are going to live the rest of their days with their crime on their conscious.

And if you want to talk about saving tax payer money, I sure hope you're writing your legislator and gov. Kasich every week asking for the complete decriminalization of marijuana and all non violent drug offenders to be set free. The money wasted on small time personal use drug offenders is reidulous.

Edited January 20, 2013 by zx3vfr

[zx3vfr]

A good read, talks a lot about costs, but at the end has some good points

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29552692/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/t/execute-or-not-question-cost/#.UPvn3Hy9KSM

Edited January 20, 2013 by zx3vfr

[4DAIVI PAI2K5]

Using that logic, there should be no murders being committed as people are still executed in this country.

You want to talk about devaluations life, I pray every night for an end to abortion and an end to the death penalty.

You say if you are in prison for life without parole you need to die. They will go when it is their time, they made a huge mistake by doing what they did to end up there, but do they really need to die? That is playing God, the bible teaches it is wrong, like for real. The bible teaches forgiveness and while a murderer played god, no one has the right to, not me you or the state, just lock them up for life, 99.9% are going to live the rest of their days with their crime on their conscious.

And if you want to talk about saving tax payer money, I sure hope you're writing your legislator and gov. Kasich every week asking for the complete decriminalization of marijuana and all non violent drug offenders to be set free. The money wasted on small time personal use drug offenders is reidulous.

Exodus 21:24

"Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot"

[4DAIVI PAI2K5]

A good read, talks a lot about costs, but at the end has some good points

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29552692/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/t/execute-or-not-question-cost/#.UPvn3Hy9KSM

A noose has a one time cheap cost if you take them out the court house door and to the gallows. Its cheap and fast.

[zx3vfr]

Exodus 21:24

"Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot"

And then came Jesus and we follow the laws of the new testimate now

[zx3vfr]

A noose has a one time cheap cost if you take them out the court house door and to the gallows. Its cheap and fast.

You just can't do that, there are innocents in prison and in death row because of lack of evidence and judges and prosecutors up for election.

[Coyote]

And then came Jesus and we follow the laws of the new testimate now

Who is "we"?

[4DAIVI PAI2K5]

And then came Jesus and we follow the laws of the new testimate now

Who is "we"?

Certainly not the man who had killed the young woman or elderly or child. That is now facing the death penalty.

[zx3vfr]

Murder is wrong either way.

But 2 wrongs do not make a right.

This is the problem with our political institutions, everyone sees the other side as a crazy nut.

[Pokey]

You just can't do that, there are innocents in prison and in death row because of lack of evidence and judges and prosecutors up for election.

Yeah you are right, they all claim they are innocent. So those on death row do die huh, well maybe "eventually" but it is not in a timely manner. You seriously have issues with the death penalty and putting people to death? So you think those that commit cold blooded murder/rape/molest should stay in prison and enjoy 3 hots and a cot, join gangs, make money while in prison, and get to stay in there forever with no possibility of getting out? So I am sure you are against war or a person defending themselves to the point of where they must take a life? If you don't have a problem then why not, isn't that playing God? The BIBLE is full of war and death and punishment all at the hand of God or at his will, and don't twist that around and say that there wasn't. Lets see how you feel should somebody you love be a victim, I would bet you might feel a bit different. There are people in this world that are damaged goods, they cannot be fixed, they cannot be reasoned with, they have little to no conscience, and are not worth keeping alive. What happens to a dog that goes crazy or that is violent and attacks people......they tend to get euthanasia. These are caged animals in prison "pets", nothing more and nothing less. Rehabilitate those that will eventually get out and give them a second chance, prisons are totally over capacity in every single state, don't you see that as a problem? Eye for an eye, and let God sort them all out. Abortion is murder and should be outlawed totally, how can it be viewed as anything else and how can many have no problem with that?

[Pokey]

Murder is wrong either way.

But 2 wrongs do not make a right.

This is the problem with our political institutions, everyone sees the other side as a crazy nut.

I will say this as nicely as I can.......you are very naive, and give way too much credit to mankind. If 2 wrongs don't make a right, then how can anything ever get done, what is your magical solution for curing the evil in this country? God doesn't intervene bud, but he helps those that help themselves. And there are not that many innocent people in prison, especially with DNA testing and all the other technology to prove otherwise. But there will always be collateral damage, the system is far from perfect. Allot of people don't believe there is an almighty God "for lots of reasons", and you cannot fault them for that either. It gets to a point where somebody has lost all of their rights in my opinion, so ya simply give them a dirt nap in return.

Edited January 20, 2013 by Pokey

[4DAIVI PAI2K5]

Murder is wrong either way.

But 2 wrongs do not make a right.

This is the problem with our political institutions, everyone sees the other side as a crazy nut.

But two odds make and even.

[buildit]

But two odds make and even.

So do two evens.

[4DAIVI PAI2K5]

shhh. That is a secret.

[BDBGoalie]

The hell if we don't have the right to play God and severely punish those that have lost all of their rights to the generally public. If you are on death row you need to die....if you have a life sentence with no possibility for parole you need to die. Think of the money that tax payers would save, think of the criminals that might think twice about committing a violent crime, rape, molestation, murder etc!!!!

No. The appellate process for a death sentence is more costly than life in prison. That is also a needed balance, because without it you run the risk of executing a innocent person.

Life in prison without the possibility of parole removes all hope of ever getting out. If the crime is really heinous, lock them in solitary for the whole time. They'll go crazy and kill themselves in a few months of never talking to other people or seeing the outside. Problem solved.

Or the airdrop into Afghan idea...

Edited January 21, 2013 by BDBGoalie

[BDBGoalie]

Exodus 21:24

"Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot"

Yes, because some 2000 year old religious drivel writing is always right....

Edited January 21, 2013 by BDBGoalie

[4DAIVI PAI2K5]

but are we not holding strong to a writing made 200 years ago?