candybluzx6 Posted February 18, 2013 Report Share Posted February 18, 2013 I have 2008 zx6r and was wanting to know the pros and cons of revalving my rear shock ( race tech gold valves). Will it make much of a difference for the money? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r1crusher Posted February 18, 2013 Report Share Posted February 18, 2013 I think the consensus will be to keep saving some coin and just replace it.That's what I would do anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongDogRacing Posted February 18, 2013 Report Share Posted February 18, 2013 agreed. the racetech pieces are nice, but for a few bucks more you could spring (pun intended!) for a nice aftermarket shock that has the right spring rate. personally, Elka's have never done me wrong on the racetrack, and have saved me quite a bit as compared to the big "O" or a penske. PM me for the name of a good Elka vendor. (or, if you do want an Ohlins, PM me for the name of a good vendor) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
candybluzx6 Posted February 18, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2013 Yea ruben said he could do the valves and respring for $350-450. Or get me a penske for $800 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongDogRacing Posted February 18, 2013 Report Share Posted February 18, 2013 penske double or triple clicker for 800? Ruben is good people. It's handy to have him local for servicing of components, and having him trackside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
candybluzx6 Posted February 18, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2013 penske double or triple clicker for 800? Ruben is good people. It's handy to have him local for servicing of components, and having him trackside.That is just the entry level one ( i think double with no reservoir) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongDogRacing Posted February 18, 2013 Report Share Posted February 18, 2013 That is just the entry level one ( i think double with no reservoir)sounds about right. There's nothing wrong with double-clicker shocks. unless you are a top club dude, you have all the adjustment you need in a double-clicker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
candybluzx6 Posted February 18, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2013 Far from top notch. Lol. This will be my first year racing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
candybluzx6 Posted February 19, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2013 Here is another question. Should i rebuild and respring the front or just save up and do the cartridge kit? The suspension is all stock and the bike feels good but its the only bike i have had on track so nothing to realy compare itto. Or should i do the shock first? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongDogRacing Posted February 19, 2013 Report Share Posted February 19, 2013 seat time is king, my friend. if you are just getting started (in racing), then the shock upgrade and freshening the forks would be a good way to begin the season. no sense in upgrading until you are out-riding your current setup. others may disagree, but i've been racing for a while now, and wish I hadn't spent so much in my initial years.jump on in, the water's fine! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
candybluzx6 Posted February 19, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2013 Thak you for the help long dog! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moto-Brian Posted February 19, 2013 Report Share Posted February 19, 2013 My suggestion is to not go the Elka way. The elkas are a good track day shock and not really a race shock. They typically are undersprung and do not have the right valving. Buddy had one and had to spend something like $500 to get it to "race spec"...Racetech? The stuff is OK, but the reality is that for a few hundred more, you can buy a MUCH better quality shock and be done with it, grow into it and excel with it. Now, the Racetech cartridges are getting some positive reviews and are being compared to the feel and workings of an Ohlins 25mm kit which is impossible to find easily.Buy a used Penkse or Ohlins TTX and be done with it. Take it to Reuben and get it refreshed and you'll be golden. You can find a used Penske all day for $500-$700... Issue will be your brand and model of bike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RHill Posted February 19, 2013 Report Share Posted February 19, 2013 Have you played around with your adjustment ranges or kept track of suspension movement with a zip tie?I ask because I didn't realize how much I was bottoming out my forks until I threw a zip tie on, cranked in preload and started turning up compression. Before making the adjustments, the way the front end collapsed and smacked bottom under braking on the front straight at PIRC was frightening. After it was not nearly as bad, but it would still bottom. The suspension made the decision for me about getting heavier fork springs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
candybluzx6 Posted February 19, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2013 Yea i called ruben and had my bike set up for me and i like it a lot. Bike feels great to me but just curious if there is more to be gained by after market since this stock set up is all i have rode. And forks havnt been serviced since i bought it new in 2010 ( left over 08 modle) so figured i would atleast refresh and re spring the front for this year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
candybluzx6 Posted February 19, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2013 My suggestion is to not go the Elka way. The elkas are a good track day shock and not really a race shock. They typically are undersprung and do not have the right valving. Buddy had one and had to spend something like $500 to get it to "race spec"...Racetech? The stuff is OK, but the reality is that for a few hundred more, you can buy a MUCH better quality shock and be done with it, grow into it and excel with it. Now, the Racetech cartridges are getting some positive reviews and are being compared to the feel and workings of an Ohlins 25mm kit which is impossible to find easily.Buy a used Penkse or Ohlins TTX and be done with it. Take it to Reuben and get it refreshed and you'll be golden. You can find a used Penske all day for $500-$700... Issue will be your brand and model of bike.What do you think of the low end model penske? Parts are tuff to find for a 08 zx6r and when they do come up they are gone fast Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moto-Brian Posted February 19, 2013 Report Share Posted February 19, 2013 Have you played around with your adjustment ranges or kept track of suspension movement with a zip tie?I ask because I didn't realize how much I was bottoming out my forks until I threw a zip tie on, cranked in preload and started turning up compression. Before making the adjustments, the way the front end collapsed and smacked bottom under braking on the front straight at PIRC was frightening. After it was not nearly as bad, but it would still bottom. The suspension made the decision for me about getting heavier fork springs.If you are bottoming out and cranking in preload, you need suspension work. Springs are not just what you need. My suggestion would be and has been to have you get suspension work done properly. What I won't allow is poor info being spread to those guys like the OP who is asking legit questions and looking for answers and possibly falling into poor info and going down the wrong track...Suspension needs to work well and work correctly. If you have to do the crank in the knobs to get it to feel better, you have issues. The zip tye or rubber o-ring idea is to see the travel being used and to understand the travel better. But, just looking isn't the solution. Some bikes have bump stops that limit the travel more than others, but the idea is to get the most use of the available travel of your suspension and yet it working correctly. The right springs, the right valving, right shim stacks and the right oil viscosity and level are all things that go into proper suspension setup. Springs alone are a mask for some other serious issues. You can buy springs and band aide the issue and yes, spend less money. Or, you can get something like the GP Suspension cartridges and an entry level Penske and be good to go for years.Proper suspension will net you far better results than any exhaust system, motor build or fancy bolt ons. ergonomics to get you where you need to be in terms of body position and suspension are things to focus on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohdaho Posted February 19, 2013 Report Share Posted February 19, 2013 I bought a used Penske Triple about 1.5 yrs ago for $550 newly refreshed. Check the boards and be patient for great deals...esp since we're in the off-season up north, i figured you have the luxury to sit back and wait. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moto-Brian Posted February 19, 2013 Report Share Posted February 19, 2013 What do you think of the low end model penske? Parts are tuff to find for a 08 zx6r and when they do come up they are gone fastThe double clicker is great. Better than an Elka.The idea needs to be equal work on both ends. Think of this - would you run a street tire on the front and a race compound on the rear to race with? Or a street rear and a race front? Point is that the front and rear need to work together to get the best balance. Cartridge or suspension work to the front and a stock rear with maybe a spring? Won't work well together. You'll band aide the rear to keep up with the front or vice versa if you do a rear shock and springs only up front.Spend money now and get it done right. You'll be amazed. Now, I will agree that if you are just starting, springs, proper oil and oil level and even new spacers to adjust tuning and a freshening rear of the shock and a spring can be a lot better than stock. To start out on and move up, but you will be limited. Tire wear, the ability for it to keep up with a track and then of course if you advance in ability... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moto-Brian Posted February 19, 2013 Report Share Posted February 19, 2013 Can one assume you are not sponsored by the long list of industry names in your sig? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
candybluzx6 Posted February 19, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2013 Not really sponsored just "rider support". Just discounts but hey got to start somewhere right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RHill Posted February 19, 2013 Report Share Posted February 19, 2013 If you are bottoming out and cranking in preload, you need suspension work. Springs are not just what you need. My suggestion would be and has been to have you get suspension work done properly. What I won't allow is poor info being spread to those guys like the OP who is asking legit questions and looking for answers and possibly falling into poor info and going down the wrong track...Suspension needs to work well and work correctly. If you have to do the crank in the knobs to get it to feel better, you have issues. The zip tye or rubber o-ring idea is to see the travel being used and to understand the travel better. But, just looking isn't the solution. Some bikes have bump stops that limit the travel more than others, but the idea is to get the most use of the available travel of your suspension and yet it working correctly. The right springs, the right valving, right shim stacks and the right oil viscosity and level are all things that go into proper suspension setup. Springs alone are a mask for some other serious issues. You can buy springs and band aide the issue and yes, spend less money. Or, you can get something like the GP Suspension cartridges and an entry level Penske and be good to go for years.Proper suspension will net you far better results than any exhaust system, motor build or fancy bolt ons. ergonomics to get you where you need to be in terms of body position and suspension are things to focus on.What you won't allow?I asked a simple question, if he has felt out the adjustment range of his current suspension.Poor info? I gave a concise example because I didn't feel like typing out a bunch of words no one would bother to read because it gets into my own bike and is not the point of this thread.You are making assumptions that you have no information to back up.Springs are a band-aid.....you have to be shitting me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moto-Brian Posted February 19, 2013 Report Share Posted February 19, 2013 What you won't allow?I asked a simple question, if he has felt out the adjustment range of his current suspension.Poor info? I gave a concise example because I didn't feel like typing out a bunch of words no one would bother to read because it gets into my own bike and is not the point of this thread.You are making assumptions that you have no information to back up.Springs are a band-aid.....you have to be shitting me.And you've been racing how long? The point I was making was that yes, he needs to sort a setup. But, your info is very confusing to a new rider/racer. Springs are a band-aide when talking racing. Until you do a cartridge kit and a proper shock, you are doing band aide style stuff to your suspension. Same with the stock rear.Stock stuff isn't good enough to race on with simply replacing the springs and oil. At a track day pace? Sure. Race pace? Not so much. Then, if you do the bare minimum based on budget which is fine, to feel it isn't a band aide is simply trying to justify what you did. The reality is that when you have the budget to do proper suspension, you SHOULD. Thus, your ability will increase and you will learn more vs fighting the bike.You can say the new components on a bike are great and they are actually very good. But, they limit the pace that you'll need to be competitive. Limiting yourself will force pushing the limits. If you are an entry level racer, this can be a bad thing. Limits and possibly not having the reserve needed for when you get into situations can cause body to meet ground. Of course, this is all just my lame opinion an you can do whatever your heart desires. I won't be on stock shit out on the track. I've done it and know the differences. Trust me when I say good setup and decent at worse suspension can make a world of difference in not only lap times, but your ability to ride/race more efficiently and effectively. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
candybluzx6 Posted February 19, 2013 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2013 I believe ya brian lol. I dont have much money to throw at the bike but when i get money it is going to suspension and not power parts cause i know that is not what is holding me back or os the suspension lol. I know i still have a ways to go and a lot to learn but want suspension dome before anything ( minus stuff to make the bike legal to race) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RHill Posted February 19, 2013 Report Share Posted February 19, 2013 And you've been racing how long? The point I was making was that yes, he needs to sort a setup. But, your info is very confusing to a new rider/racer. Springs are a band-aide when talking racing. Until you do a cartridge kit and a proper shock, you are doing band aide style stuff to your suspension. Same with the stock rear.Stock stuff isn't good enough to race on with simply replacing the springs and oil. At a track day pace? Sure. Race pace? Not so much. Then, if you do the bare minimum based on budget which is fine, to feel it isn't a band aide is simply trying to justify what you did. The reality is that when you have the budget to do proper suspension, you SHOULD. Thus, your ability will increase and you will learn more vs fighting the bike.You can say the new components on a bike are great and they are actually very good. But, they limit the pace that you'll need to be competitive. Limiting yourself will force pushing the limits. If you are an entry level racer, this can be a bad thing. Limits and possibly not having the reserve needed for when you get into situations can cause body to meet ground. Of course, this is all just my lame opinion an you can do whatever your heart desires. I won't be on stock shit out on the track. I've done it and know the differences. Trust me when I say good setup and decent at worse suspension can make a world of difference in not only lap times, but your ability to ride/race more efficiently and effectively.My racing experience or lack thereof has no bearing when I suggested: observe and act on your observations.Yes, I followed up with the spring example, but it was to reiterate the above; observe and act on your observations. Why don't you quote and point out where I told anyone to band aid or half ass their suspension setup? Maybe I missed the part where I gave equipment suggestions and bad info.I think your use of "band aid" is completely incorrect. Lets use my respringing as an example:Temporarily cranking preload and compression dampening to compensate for bottoming is the band aid in this scenario, but what is the proper corrective action? Stiffer springs or adjust the spring spacer(I'd consider that a band aid, unless you are fine tuning).What did I say my action was going to be? Stiffer springs.Will it fix all my suspension issues? Doubtful, valving is going to be too soft judging from the brake dive, but I won't know for sure until I test the adjustment range with the new springs.Will my choice to respring be beneficial? Hell yes, it will put the preload in range and allow me to make proper adjustments for sag allowing the valving to act over a longer stoke. So even if the valving is too soft, it will have more range to act on. Is respringing a band aid? Hell noDid I tell the OP to go get new springs? No, I asked if he has adjusted and observed his suspension. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madcat6183 Posted February 19, 2013 Report Share Posted February 19, 2013 I can't find the "Well that escalated quickly" icon, so that has to work.I love OR winters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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