jarvismb

ok, let's get some nomenclature straight - I realize the RAM is not IN the CPU. It's an ARM. ARM's don't have RAM IN the CPU. What it does have it two RAM substrates wire-bonded to the CPU bus inside the same package. This is what's unique.

I just went into a reply without seeing this post, but I assure you, it is unique. Just because someone says SOC, doesn't mean the same thing, and this is one of those cases.

Unfortunately, the term system-on-chip is used more often than I go off-roading, and it's always in refernce to different things each time. The SOC that the A4 uses refers to the only ARM architecture I know of that is self-sufficient in terms of basic operation (i.e. not dependent on external memory), and has the additional benefits of the media decoding and graphics decoding of the Cortex-A8. The chip used in the Nexus One is called a SOC by Qualcomm, but it's just referring to cell and wifi transceivers and some graphics & media decoders. It's not in reference to having built-in memory, like the A4. And I should've know better, honestly... Here's where perhaps I've been a bit liberal with my exclusive use of the term kernel. I think maybe I should have been referring to the OS in general, because you are right, the underlying kernel is decently sound, but it's the kernel's peripheral interactions that (to be honest) kind of suck so far in current devices. Examples: The UI animations aren't as fluid as they should be, so there's some sort of process priority preemption that needs to be sorted out between the base kernel and the thread scheduler. The touchscreen (and thereby the base UI input tasks) reactions aren't what they need to be. Again, maybe this is driver-related, therefore it's more upper level, but it could also be a lower-level problem in the thread scheduler. This kind of thing requires a more gifted Android knowledge base than I have, but it still a question I have. But I will say that the multi-tasking nature of the kernel is where it should be able to shine, and in terms of running the underlying system, and memory management, it does great, so the potential is there. I think they just need some time to get their peripheral interactions right before I buy. This also goes right into my agreement with your point of shitty 3rd party coding in general, but I also think this furthers my thought that I'll just wait out Android in general until it has some more time to ripen.

you could bang 55 fat chicks for $100 apiece. or 5.5 really fat chicks for $1000 apiece

Jeremi, let me also add an aside that one of the big opponents of this new iphone that we've been discussing is the EVO 4G, which uses a different processor altogether, and a lot of points about hardware are directed at these devices in particular. I realize there are competitors that use the same processor and competitors that use different ones, but I still hold steadfast to the A4's proprietary unique use of the best core out there (Cortex-A8) that makes it the best platform.

I've figured it out since the day they were announced, it's no big revelation that they use the ARM Cortex-A8, anyone with a brain would, it's an incredible platform (0.9VDC core voltage, holy shit, that's amazing). The A4 just took it a step further and created a system-on-chip with the A8 as the heart, and the others didn't. Obvious to you and me both, but I thought I had to make point since I was getting the impression not everyone in this thread had this in mind. I refer to my previous point(s) about what you do with the core, both in terms of hardware and software that matters, and the software point leads into my (repeated) belief that Android's kernel isn't mature enough yet to be "more capable" than Apple's. As of now. I repeat, I have all the faith in the world that one day it will be, but it ain't that day yet.

absolutely - the age of customer service is going to come around again whether businesses are ready for it or not. The fact that you got hosed, and everyone in the area from their prime demographic will know about it in 24 hours means that they (and businesses in general) need to think long and hard about any decision to not put the customer first. Hopefully they see this and try to rectify the situation, and good for them if they do, but if they don't we'll all know about it. And these days, the internet can make or break people overnight, it seems. Just look at butter jesus....

simple CPU core speed is certainly a good litmus test for the overall performance of a given system, but it surely isn't the end-all factor. To make a system perform well overall, you need the proper software running on your given hardware platform. It's how the two interact that makes the best result. For example, use the same computer and load Vista and then Red Hat Linux. The software is completely different, but the hardware is the same. Still, the computer will have completely different benchmarks because the software matters. This is where the iphone shines. Everyone's opinions on the GUI aside, the kernel blazes, even on inferior hardware, which results in things like faster page-renderings. This is impressive, and it's what makes the iphone what it is. Now they even have the big-gig A4 to run that streamlined kernel, so hold on to your tits, because it'll be fast. I have no doubt that Android will get better and better as people have more time to develop it, and it matures as a whole, but it isn't there yet, so I don't use it. Yet. Apple has had more time to refine their product and it shows. This kind of thing ain't easy. If it was, it'd be your mom, and everyone would be doing it.

my musk is actually #74 on that list...

I get that, and that is the way of technology for sure, but by the same token, you should be arguing that the iPhone 4 is better than the EVO because it came out later, no? I'll never understand this kind of thing. Everyone and their mother says that having AT&T is like watching jbot curb-stomp puppies. Maybe it's just me, but I've never had a problem with it making calls. And to an extent they did slightly neglect the whole reception aspect of the design, but that's why the new idea of case-integrated antennas will be the new tits for the iPhones. Don't get me wrong guys, read my previous post and realize I'm just waiting for the Android community to mature. The Apple community has better support and application diversity than Android does as of now, so that's where I'm sticking. The hardware doesn't hurt, but I'm keeping my eye on everyone's development.

the only thing that processor has going for it is the PowerVR graphics rendering. The core is actually ARM-cortex based (same as A4), but it's actually significantly slower than the A4 - 1GHz > 720MHz. Unless they over clocked the core to 1GHz, but even then, they're stretching to even match the core speed. Plus I have to point out the same memory-based improvement the A4 has over this thing that I said in my previous post. Droid X out.

i have to be on my way to a bachelor party by noon that day, so i need my little brick of awesome in my pocket by the end of the morning. so it's crowd surfing for me, unfortunately.

magz, we can't get into a real debate over why a chip is better simply because they might be able to overclock it later. The point is, the A4 is better than the snapdragon right now. I can't possibly type out the explanations of why having your main system operating memory flip-chip wire-bonded to the silicon of your main CPU is incredibly awesome for high-speed memory stability, but i assure you it is. Just because they will probably overclock the snapdragon doesn't give it any clout right now. Plus who says they won't over drive the system clock in the A4 later. It's just as easy as it sounds, and with the memory bus directly attached to the silicon substrate of the CPU, I'd give more credence to that system than the snapdragon anyway. Also, to say the iphone was great when it came out, but it's been bested seems like a silly argument. Are you comparing the original iphone to the new EVO? If you are, then hells yea it sucks. But if not, then the new iphone is nothing like the old one. As everyone else has gotten better, so has the iphone, so I don't completely follow that argument. I fully admit, maybe I misunderstand what you mean, so my bad if so, but I think if we're comparing the new iphone to the EVO, it's a better overall device. hollywood - i'm preordered as well. Here's to fighting the crowds at 7am next thursday morning...

BOOOOOOOO.... i guess GLWS, but still boooo

i think you're all taking this too literally.... it was butter jesus. god wanted pancakes. what else do you start with besides melted butter?

bbd/bbc - whatever you want to call it, you'll know it when you see it...

Black Tod Says:

oooooooohhhhhhh snap Nick

I teach a class out of my basement, you should come. no charge...

and i'll actually completely agree with those, I'm just saying 'tech-wise' i still think the iphone 4 has an edge over the EVO. The supporting market and application framework is another thing entirely - and don't think for a second that my plan hasn't always been to keep a weather eye on the developing maturity of the Android platform as a whole, and pounce once I think it's gotten to the point where it's taken over Apple as the techno-niche weapon of choice. They have the potential, but that kind of thing takes time. I just like where Apple sits for now, so I contently play in that pool until construction across the street has finished...

I feel like the only thing 'tech spec' wise that the EVO does better is expandable memory and a better camera. I realize this is just my opinion, but a better processor (A4>Snapdragon) and a better screen are far more important to me than a camera. The memory thing I'll give to the EVO, but that's it. I'd have a tough time going along with saying the EVO has better tech specs...

i have a reeeeaaaal easy way to explain it....

you and Sinner should use this as the new secret weapon on the drag strip. nitrous is played out - the coke/mentos bottle is the new hotness....

:lol: