chevysoldier

Interesting. Didn't even think about the holiday. I do know I haven't been on as much, think I'm just trying to adapt to the changes, and there hasn't been a whole lot of topics that interest me.

Is it just me or does it seem like since the makeover, there aren't nearly as many postings?

Crazy funny read. Lol In Virginia's Fairfax County, Robbing Banks for the CIA By Tom Schoenberg April 18, 2013 4:39 PM EDT In a white-walled interrogation room in a small Virginia police station last June, two detectives were trying to get Herson Torres to crack. Surveillance video tied him to two attempted bank robberies in the area during the past week. The skinny 21-year-old didn’t have a criminal record and seemed nervous, but he wasn’t talking. The detectives showed him pictures of his brother and father. They told Torres he could be sent to prison for as many as 25 years. “If I tell you, you’re not going to believe me,” Torres said. He was crying as he told them an incredible story about being recruited by the Defense Intelligence Agency to participate in a secret operation testing the security of Washington-area banks. He said he’d been assigned to rob a half-dozen banks over four days. And he told them about Theo, the man who hired him and gave all the orders—even though Torres had never met him. Angry, his interrogators accused him of making up a ridiculous story. Still, Torres persuaded them to look at the text and e-mail messages on his cell phone; he also gave them the password to his Facebook account and urged them to retrieve a copy of the Defense Intelligence Agency immunity letter from his glove compartment. The police locked up Torres on a charge of attempted robbery and examined the evidence. By the end of the night, they weren’t sure what was going on, but they suspected Torres might be telling the truth. Torres’s unlikely entry into the covert world of retail bank security testing had begun seven days earlier, he said. He had returned home from unloading trucks at Target when his phone lit up with a text message from an old friend. “Hey, I got this job for you where you’re going to get paid 25K,” Carolina Villegas wrote. “Doing what?” Torres asked. “Robbing banks,” she texted. Torres started laughing. “Is this a joke?” he wondered. Soon Villegas was on the phone explaining that it was a government job. And it was legal. The thought of making $25,000 was seductive to Torres, who was earning $11 an hour at Target. Since graduating from high school in 2008, Torres, who goes by the nickname Geo, hadn’t changed much. He spent most of his time hanging out with friends, collecting Batman comic books, and working part-time jobs. Twenty-five thousand dollars would be enough to start community college and move out of his parents’ house. Three hours after talking to Villegas, Torres was climbing into her gray Jeep Cherokee in a Dick’s Sporting Goods parking lot in Bailey’s Crossroads, Va. He hadn’t seen her since high school, though the two had been chatting on Facebook recently. Villegas was a supply specialist in the U.S. Army Reserve and also worked as a cashier at a Carter’s baby clothing store, according to Torres, police, and the military. (Villegas declined to comment for this story.) When Torres arrived, Villegas was talking on her phone while writing down text messages. She was wearing a black glove on her right hand. Her Army fatigues and combat boots were in the back seat. Villegas introduced Torres to the man on the phone, Theo. He didn’t offer a last name. Theo said he worked for the government and was recruiting Torres to test the defenses of Washington-area banks. The plan was simple: Theo would tell him which bank to target, and Torres would give a manager a note demanding money. Armed security officers, threats to call the police, or a wait that exceeded five minutes would be cause to flee. If he left with money, he’d be paid $25,000. Successful or not, he was guaranteed $2,500 for taking part. Torres would deliver any money recovered to a location near Richmond. If arrested, Torres should stay silent. Federal authorities would get him out in 24 hours. “Is this real?” Torres asked. Theo was reassuring: The entire operation was government-approved. Torres was even vetted before being approached, Theo said, mentioning a misdemeanor theft charge against Torres for stealing from a J.C. Penney store when he was 15. Torres said he was in. To his surprise, the operation started immediately. He put on the hooded sweatshirt Villegas had asked him to bring, and she drove him to a strip mall three miles away. The hoodie would hide his face and cover the ambigram-style “Breathe Music” tattoo on his forearm. Torres was sweating as he entered the SunTrust branch in Alexandria, Va. As Theo instructed, Torres wore a single black glove to avoid leaving fingerprints. Keeping his head down, he handed the manager the note: “I need your help. I need money. My family is being held hostage and a bomb will go off at 4:30 if you don’t help. Don’t call the police or the FBI.” When the manager said the only way he could help was by alerting the police, Torres hurried out. Villegas was in her car with Theo’s next assignment: a Capital One branch five miles away. After concluding Torres was serious, the manager there asked him to wait a few minutes. Torres watched as the manager herded the other employees behind the teller window. Realizing things weren’t going according to plan, he sprinted through the parking lot to where Villegas was waiting. “I think he called the feds. We’ve got to bounce,” Torres said. Theo was listening—Villegas had him on speakerphone. He ordered them to proceed to the next bank. As they drove away, police cars sped by in the opposite direction. A helicopter buzzed in the distance. “Go hide out. I’ll get the helicopter off your back,” Theo said calmly. While keeping Torres and Villegas on the line, he called the Fairfax County police to lead them astray, saying he’d seen the robbery suspect get into a gray Ford Focus. Theo then ordered Villegas and Torres to hide in parking garages for the rest of the day; several hours later he told them they were cleared to go home. Hearing Theo lie to the Fairfax County police gave Torres pause. “Is this really happening? Is this what’s going down?” he wondered. But he had to admit that the day was fun: “Something about it—I went in, I came out, I was running. It felt good.” That night, Villegas called Torres with instructions from Theo: More banks tomorrow. Bring friends. Torres was scheduled to work, but Villegas said it wasn’t a problem: Theo would take care of it. After a call to Target and a faxed doctor’s note, Torres was free to focus on his new job. When Torres tried to recruit some friends and his brother for the mission, no one believed him—until Villegas gave him the letter from Theo. The document, on Defense Intelligence Agency stationery, explained that the agency was conducting “Operation Downstrike” with the help of “civilian volunteers” who “will be immune from civil and criminal action.” The letter helped persuade Torres’s brother-in-law to join Villegas and Torres on Wednesday to attempt more robberies. Torres stashed a copy of the letter in his glove compartment. As the three drove from bank to bank along the Capital Beltway, Theo was on the phone giving a critique of the previous day. He said Torres had left fingerprints on the Capital One door and the branch had captured his picture. “Don’t worry,” Theo said. “I’m going to fix that.” Theo said he was looking into getting the men government-impounded cars to use for the bank jobs. He also said he might be able to find Torres a permanent government job. Neither of the two robbery attempts on Wednesday succeeded. Theo called Torres that night and said Villegas wouldn’t be available the rest of the week, though the operation needed to continue with additional operatives. The following day, Torres and his brother-in-law entered a BB&T bank in Alexandria. It was packed, so the pair quickly left without making an attempt. On Friday, Torres made what would be his last—and worst—attempt. He, a cousin, a friend, and his brother-in-law tried to rob the same BB&T branch. It was again busy. While Torres waited in his Honda Civic, the other three entered the bank unarmed. Mayie Libby, a BB&T account manager, knew right away the men were robbers—and inexperienced ones. They wore baseball caps and hooded sweatshirts despite the 85F weather. They demanded money but hadn’t brought a bag. As Libby went behind the counter for money—and a bag—two of the men fled, diving into the waiting Civic. Torres was on the phone with Theo as police cars screamed into the parking lot. “Theo, I don’t know where these cops are coming from. I need a getaway,” Torres said. Theo told him he was looking up safe houses, but Torres didn’t wait. He sped home, leaving his cousin inside the bank to be questioned by police. Friday night a detective called Torres. He hung up and called Theo, who told him to hide out. Torres fled to a friend’s house. A few hours later, Theo sent him a text message: “You’re in the clear.” Tuesday evening police entered Torres’s home and, mistaking the remote control in his hand for a gun, drew their weapons and brought him in. Six hours after Torres was arrested, Detective John Vickery of the Fairfax County police got a call on his cell phone from an unfamiliar number with an Oregon area code. It was Theo. “Where is he? What have you done with him?” he demanded. “You can’t make people disappear—only we can.” Theo told Vickery he was a federal agent working with the Central Intelligence Agency. He requested a meeting with Vickery and his supervisors, whose names he knew, promising to explain the operation. He used law enforcement terminology and familiar acronyms and appeared to understand security clearances. But his demands for the meeting, such as not wanting to go through the police department’s metal detector, didn’t make sense to Vickery, a 20-year veteran of the force. “When we do deal with the CIA, we usually go to them,” he said. “We didn’t know whether we were dealing with a federal agent or a nut.” Theo started calling Washington-area lawyers asking them to defend Torres. He told criminal defense attorneys David Dischley and Michael Robinson that he worked for the CIA’s national resources division, which recruits citizens and foreigners to assist the U.S. abroad. He explained that Torres had been arrested during a government training operation gone bad. Torres, he said, was being tested for an eventual mission in El Salvador to infiltrate the criminal gang MS-13. Theo offered Dischley and Robinson $45,000 in cash to take the case. The lawyers asked Theo why his agency couldn’t use its own authority to get Torres out of jail. Theo said the CIA wasn’t allowed to conduct operations in the U.S. “Everything I asked, he had an answer for,” Robinson said. Dischley, an ex-Marine who said he has an intelligence background, said the whole thing sounded absurd, “but the logic behind it made a little bit of sense.” And the CIA lingo “just rattled off his tongue.” Still, the lawyers asked for proof. Theo e-mailed the same DIA document that he’d sent Torres. They took the case. The lawyers had trouble pinning down Theo for the money. He failed to show up at Robinson’s office and a planned meeting at a Red Robin hamburger restaurant. At Fairfax County police headquarters, Theo was a no-show for the meeting Vickery assembled with his boss and Torres’s defense team. He would instead meet investigators at the courthouse during Torres’s arraignment hearing on June 15, he said; he’d be wearing an American flag pin on his black suit. José Torres, Geo’s 25-year-old brother, was also looking for Theo at the courthouse that day. Since his brother’s arrest, José had been speaking frequently with Theo, who assured José he had everything under control. During some of those calls, José remained on the line, listening while Theo called the police, judges, and even members of Congress seeking information on the case or to rant about Torres’s arrest. As José looked around for Theo that morning, he instead ran into Dischley and Vickery—both of whom had become more suspicious of Theo in recent days. The three had a lot to talk about. “I want to know what the f-‍-‍- is going on because this is weird,” José demanded. After comparing notes, Vickery helped arrange Torres’s release on bail while he continued his investigation. Later that day, Vickery took Villegas out for pizza. She tried to stay silent at first but finally opened up: She had met Theo that spring through the website sugardaddyforme.com, which offers “direct dating between sugar babys, sugar daddies gay or anyone else who likes dating online for free.” Within days the two were talking on the phone and texting regularly, and Theo had convinced her he was a military intelligence officer running Operation Downstrike. If she succeeded in recruiting others to join the mission, he said, she could get a government job. If she refused, he threatened to put her fiancé on the no-fly list and “cause issues” for her mother and grandmother, according to court documents. Villegas had believed him, although she had never met him in person, but now she was beginning to waver. She gave Theo’s cell phone number to Vickery. Theo had used an Internet program to conceal his number—the number Torres, police, and lawyers had was not his real one—but Villegas had figured a way around it. Investigators quickly traced the number to a 26-year-old named Joshua Brady living in Matoaca, Va., a quiet town of 2,400 more than 100 miles south of Washington. Brady was sleeping on Aug. 17 when federal agents entered the dingy ranch-style home he shared with his mother, grandmother, and 10-year-old brother. Investigators seized computers and found several books about the CIA. Prosecutors charged Brady with impersonating a government official and three counts of attempted bank robbery. Each crime carries a maximum penalty of 20 years in prison. With crooked teeth and an acned face, Brady doesn’t look like a confidence man. Yet his voice—mild, almost monotonous, with a hint of Virginia drawl—conveys professionalism, experience, and sincerity. In an October 2012 jailhouse interview, Brady appeared calm, insisting he was an intelligence agent. He claimed he was being penalized for trying to blow the whistle on the CIA for letting Torres take the fall. “This was not the kind of operation I wanted to work on,” he said from behind a glass partition in the Northern Neck Regional Jail in Warsaw, Va. Brady said he ran an information technology consultancy from home, “keeping you free from hackers.” As a boy, he said he suffered from a digestive tract disorder and was bullied in high school, which he left at 16, earning his diploma online. Brady was diagnosed with post-traumatic stress disorder. He claims he joined the CIA before turning 20, providing “technical services” and training civilians. “I can’t go into great detail on initial contact or my background,” he said. The purpose of Operation Downstrike, he said, was to train Torres for clandestine work. “When they pull the alarm, then you have a short time to get out of there,” he said. “You need to be able to escape, and that’s going to be stressful. If you crack under stress, then you’re useless to the agency.” The rules of the operation dictated no weapons, according to Brady. Stolen money was to be turned over to the government. Brady refused to identify anyone else involved in the operation, saying disclosure was barred by the Intelligence Identities Protection Act. Documents on his encrypted hard drive—seized by the government—could prove all of this, he insisted. Other operations would follow, he said. “This is real.” According to federal prosecutors, Brady was awaiting trial for using a forged federal judge’s signature at the time of his arrest. In the past, Brady had posed as a computer security consultant, a hacker, and a University of Virginia law student, federal prosecutors said in court papers. Court filings in Virginia sketch a repeat offender whose father was in and out of prison. Since 2005, Brady had been accused of posing as an entrepreneur seeking multimillion-dollar deals for computer hardware, stealing $1,100 from a woman to whom he promised an Xbox 360, and writing bad checks. In the past seven years he was charged in three criminal cases: He was found guilty in one, pled no contest in another, and pled guilty in the third. He was released in 2012 after a year in prison for violating the terms of his sentence in the Xbox case. Dan Christman, who works at a general store about a mile from Brady’s home, said he used to spend a lot of time with Brady playing EverQuest, an online game involving wizards, warriors, and dragons. About eight years ago Brady was caught by game administrators stealing virtual money, Christman said. “Josh is a really smart guy,” Christman said. “He has a lot of energy in that department but nowhere to funnel it.” After Brady’s arrest, some of his Operation Downstrike tricks were revealed. The letter that Brady sent Villegas and the defense lawyers bore a close resemblance to one posted on a fired CIA agent’s blog. Vickery’s cell phone number is available on the Internet. Neither Villegas nor any of the other robbery participants were ever charged. In October state prosecutors dropped the case against Torres without explanation. Vickery said it was because police were convinced Torres was tricked. The CIA and federal prosecutors in Virginia declined to comment. Torres agreed to be called as a witness against Brady, though he may not get to testify. On Jan. 29, Brady reached a plea deal with federal prosecutors. Under the agreement, he pled guilty to one count of using a forged federal judge’s signature. The government agreed in exchange to drop the bank robbery and impersonation charges. His lawyers argued he suffered from mental illnesses that made him unable to form the intent to commit the crimes he was charged with. Brady has PTSD, paranoid schizophrenia, and schizotypal personality disorder, according to the doctor hired by his lawyers. After conducting an additional mental exam, the government’s doctor diagnosed Brady with a delusional disorder that could have posed problems during the bank robbery trial. Brady could have faced up to five years in prison for forgery, but the government is recommending he be sentenced instead to three years of supervision in his mother’s home. He’s agreed to seek mental health treatment, and he’s back in Matoaca. He may even get his seized computers and the encrypted Operation Downstrike documents back. http://mobile.businessweek.com/articles/2013-04-18/in-virginias-fairfax-county-robbing-banks-for-the-cia

There are advantages and disadvantages to each style. Honestly, when I'm off duty I tend to carry my Bodyguard 380 since I carry an M&P 40 5 days out of the week, It's just easier and lighter. But I have OC'ed quite a bit. I've dealt with criminals bg's Yes there are exceptions, but more often than not, a bad guy isn't going to pick off the guy with a visible gun. Would I open carry while walking down the streets of Chicago at night? Hell No but then again I wouldn't be walking in Chicago at night anyways. I take into account the area I'm going to be in. I've OC'ed because it's my Right, because maybe it'll help ease the "evil gun syndrome" for a few people, because in certain instances I want a deterrent rather than surprise.... I've had this for a while. A good read IMHO. The Open Carry Argument My primary goal when I‟m out and about, besides whatever I went out and about to do, is to go about peaceably and not be the victim of a violent crime. To that end I carry a firearm whenever I go out as well as follow all the other standard safety practices like maintaining situational awareness, staying out of high crime areas, and avoiding confrontation. I also have a larger overall goal of making it through my life without shooting anyone. Simply put, I don‟t want to be responsible, legally or morally, for another‟s death. Those two goals might appear at first blush to be mutually exclusive, and with concealed carry it would be a difficult set of goals to realize. Carry of any firearm or other weapon for defensive purposes is a solemn responsibility. Those of us that do (openly or concealed) are mortified by the idea, constantly promoted by the pacifists, that our behavior is more reckless because we are armed. In other words, because we carry a handgun we take more risks than we would if we were unarmed. While it would be dishonest to claim we are all responsible gun owners, it is my belief that the vast majority of us are. Regardless of what or how you carry, you need to come to the realization that you are setting yourself up to lose. Whenever you are placed in a defensive situation, you will always lose; it‟s only the degree of loss that‟s negotiable. Ayoob hits on this in his book, In the Gravest Extreme. He suggests tossing the robber a small wad of cash and moving off, even if you could prevail with a weapon. There‟s a very good reason for this. Regardless of how skilled you are at drawing your weapon, you are going to lose. It may be only a minor loss, like being very shaken up and not sleeping well for a few days, or it may be a major loss, like becoming fertilizer, or (most likely) it may be somewhere in-between, but you always lose. Your life will not be the same even if you prevail. Carrying a concealed firearm presents to a criminal that I am unarmed. Every study I‟ve ever read, not most but every study, says that criminals will avoid an armed person or home when selecting a victim. That only makes sense, right? Robbers, rapists, or carjackers might be dumb and opportunistic, but they have the same instinctual sense of self preservation we all have. Hyenas don‟t attack lions to steal the gazelle the lions have just killed. It‟s all about risk management; are the potential gains (a tasty gazelle dinner) worth the risks (pain and damage the lion‟s teeth will cause), and does the hyena really need to test the lion to figure out the answer? No, the hyena can see the lion‟s teeth and knows to stay well clear. Deterrent Value: When I‟m carrying concealed I feel like my „teeth‟ are hidden, and thus of no real deterrent value. If I appear unarmed then I am unarmed in the eyes of the robber, I appear as easy a target as almost anyone else out on the street. My probability of being a victim of a crime, violent or otherwise, is completely unchanged by the fact that I have hidden beneath my shirt the means to defend myself. My goal, however, is not to be a victim in the first place, remember? I don‟t want to be a victim that fought back successfully and triumphed; I prefer to not be victimized at all. I recognize that there are some people who (think they) want to be victimized so they can whip out their concealed firearm and „surprise‟ the mugger; that is, in my opinion, foolish immaturity. Concealed carry is good; it throws a wrench in the works for criminals who might see the teeming masses as a smorgasbord of financial gain. This deterrent effect is, nonetheless, indirect and often nil. At some point the thug will weigh the risks vs. the gains; is his current desperation for money/drugs/booze/gold grille greater than the gamble that one of those people might be carrying a gun? If he decides to play the odds, which helped along with surprise tip the scale in his favor, he will attack. Will his attack allow enough time for me to draw my concealed firearm to affect a defense? Maybe, but then again, maybe not. Remember, I don’t want to be a victim and I don’t want to shoot anyone. So how do I realize both goals; or how do I make them inclusive? I can do that through open carry. By making it clear and obvious that I am armed, that I have teeth, I tip the risk scale to the point that the criminal‟s gains are far outweighed by the risk. There is no ambiguity when the thug is doing his risk assessment, there‟s something right there in plain sight that can quickly and painfully change or terminate his life. You may not think his life has much value, but as I mentioned before, he has the same sense of self preservation as any other living creature and to him it‟s every bit as valuable as yours is to you. It would be foolish to ignore this indisputable fact when you develop your overall tactical strategy. The Five Stages of Violent Crime I am a firm believer in this defense theology and urge anyone who carries a firearm for protection (and even those who do not) to follow the link and read it carefully. Please, for your and your family‟s sake, read that. Drill down into the hyperlinks for better explanations; absorb as much information as you can. A violent crime does not begin at the point where one person with ill intent draws a weapon or attacks another.Quote: The Five Stages of Violent Crime: Crime and violence are processes that take time to develop. The attack is not the first step, the preliminary triangle must be built. There are five distinct stages that are easily identified:1) Intent2) Interview3) Positioning4) Attack5) ReactionI do not believe the act begins after the BG has made his intentions known by drawing on you (attack); it began when he formed the intent. Well, there‟s not a lot I can do personally to stop another‟s intent, so I need to look a little farther along in the sequence and try to derail that train before it gets to the attack. For the sake of argument, let‟s remove weapons from the equation for just a moment. A 5‟2” unarmed attacker isn‟t going to choose a 6‟6” victim over a 5‟1” victim, right? He‟s going to attack the easier target. Now let‟s come back to the reality of violent crime and add back the weapons. Concealed carry presumes it is better to wait until the opponent has drawn his knife or gun and then try to „fix‟ the situation. It‟s seems a bit foolish to promote the idea that it‟s better to attempt to stop a violent crime in the fourth stage when you could instead prevent it in the second. A concealed weapon cannot deter an attack at the „interview‟ stage; it‟s completely ineffectual in that role. Open carry is the only method that provides a direct deterrent. Let‟s say the bad-guy missed the openly carried pistol and holster during the interview stage, and has proceeded to the „positioning‟ stage. Chances are pretty good he‟ll see it at some point then, right? Then, let‟s say the planets have all aligned just so and he, for whatever reason, has begun his attack despite your openly carried sidearm. At this point, the OCer is on level footing with the CCer, the attack has begun. Who has the advantage? Well, I‟m going to say that with all things being equal (skill level and equipment) the OCer has a speed of draw advantage over the CCer. First One To Be Shot: There are some who criticize open carry and claim it will make you more of a target or „the first one shot‟ when a robber walks into the 7-11, despite the absolute lack of credible evidence that this has ever happened. If the robber walks in and sees that you‟re armed, his whole plan has encountered an unexpected variable. In bank robberies where he might expect to see an armed guard he will have already factored that possibility into his plan, but only for the armed guard, not for open or concealed carry citizens. No robber robs a bank without at least a rudimentary plan. Nevertheless, being present for a bank robbery is an extremely remote possibility for most of us regardless of our preferred method of handgun carry, so let‟s go back in the 7-11. If the robber sees someone is armed he is forced to either significantly alter the plan or abort it outright. Robbing is an inherently apprehensive occupation, and one that doesn‟t respond well to instant modifications. He is not prepared to commit murder when he only planned for larceny. He knows that a petty robbery will not garner the intense police manhunt a murder would. He doesn‟t know if you‟re an armed citizen or a police officer and isn‟t going to take the time to figure it out. Either way, if someone in the 7-11 is unexpectedly armed, how many others might be similarly adorned and where might they be? Does this unexpectedly armed individual have a partner who is likewise armed nearby, someone who is watching right now? Self preservation compels him to abort the plan for one that is less risky. So we see that the logic matches the history; open carriers are not the first ones shot because it doesn‟t make sense in any common street crime scenario that they would be. If your personal self protection plan emphasizes “Hollywood” style crimes over the more realistic street mugging, it might be best to stay home. Surprise: Probably the most common condemnation of open carry comes from the armchair tacticians who believe it‟s better to have the element of surprise in a criminal encounter. Although this was touched on in the previous paragraph about deterrence, I‟ll expand on it specifically here because there are some important truths you need to consider before you lean too heavily on this false support. Surprise as a defensive tactic is often based on unrealistic or ill-thought out scenarios, and seems to exist only in the minds of concealed carry firearms proponents. The circumstance where several street toughs surround and taunt you for a while before robbing you, like in some Charles Bronson movie, is not realistic; the mugger wants to get in and out as fast as possible. In most cases you will have only seconds to realize what‟s happening, make a decision, and react. Imagine you‟re walking along the sidewalk when two gangsta looking teenagers suddenly appear at the corner coming in the opposite direction. You have only seconds to react if their intent was to victimize you. Do you draw your concealed firearm now or wait until there‟s an actual visible threat? If they are just on their way to church and you pull a gun on them, you are the criminal and you will likely forever lose your firearms rights for such a foolish action. If you don‟t draw and they pull a knife or pistol when they‟re just a couple steps away, your only options are draw (if you think you can) or comply. Imagine staring at the shiny blade of a knife being held by a very nervous and violent mugger, three inches from your or your wife‟s throat and having to decide whether or not you have time to draw from concealment. The element of surprise may not do you any good; in fact the only surprising thing that might happen is that your concealed carry pistol gets taken along with your wallet. The thug will later get a goodchuckle with his buddies about how you brought a gun to a knife fight. The simple truth is that while surprise is a monumentally superior tactical maneuver, it is exclusively an offensive action, not a defensive one. What many internet commandos call „defensive surprise‟ is nothing more than damage control, a last ditch effort to fight your way back out of a dangerous situation. I am not aware of any army that teaches using surprise as a defense against attack. No squad of soldiers goes on patrol with their weapons hidden so that they can „surprise‟ the enemy should they walk into an ambush. It Will Get Stolen: Another common criticism of open carry is that the firearm itself will be the target of theft, prompting a criminal to attack simply to get the gun from you. Like the previous example of being the first one shot in a robbery, above, this is despite the fact that there is no credible evidence it happens. It also blindly ignores the more obvious fact that anything you possess can make you the target of a crime, be it a car, a watch, or even a female companion (girlfriend, wife, or daughter). Crooks commonly steal for only one of two reasons; to get something you have that they want, or to get something that you have so they can sell it and buy something they want. I don‟t claim it could never happen; just that it‟s so remote a possibility that it doesn‟t warrant drastic alterations to our self defense strategies. If you believe otherwise, leave your wife, children, watch, sunglasses, jewelry, and cell phone at home, hop into your Pinto wagon, and head out to do your thing. Very often, someone critical of open carry will cite some example of a uniformed police officer whose gun was taken by a violent criminal, and yes, this does indeed happen. The argument, however, breaks down when they assume the officer was targeted solely to steal his firearm. What is more likely is that the officer was targeted merely for being a police officer and the gun was stolen as a byproduct of the attack. More often, the officer‟s gun is taken during the struggle to get the suspect into custody due to an entirely unrelated matter. However, let‟s suppose, for argument, that a police officer really was attacked just to get his firearm. What actions did the police department take to prevent it from reoccurring? Did they demand that their officers carry concealed? No, of course not. You should, like the police, prioritize your defense strategy for the most likely threat first, and the least likely last. It Scares People: One other statement against open carry I hear is that it damages public perception of firearms owners, or that by carrying openly we are not being good ambassadors to the public. While there are some people who have a genuine fear of firearms, due either to some horrible past experience or anti-gun indoctrination, the majority of people are either indifferent to them or quite fascinated by them. I‟ve never kept track of the dozens of fellow citizens I‟ve encountered who have marveled at the idea of open carry, but I do know exactly how many have expressed displeasure at it; one. People are scared of many things for many reasons; however, pretending those things do not exist only perpetuates the fear. Someone who is disturbed by open carry is going to be every bit as disturbed by concealed carry. The only effective way to overcome a fear is to come to the intellectual realization that the phobia is based on emotion and not on fact. By being a firsthand witness that a firearm was carried responsibly and peaceably, and wasn‟t being carried in the commission of a crime, one who was apprehensive about firearms discovers their fear is not fact based, but emotional. Thus, open carry can be a very effectual way of helping to overcome theemotionally based fear of the firearm. After all, you‟d be much more likely to believe in ghosts if you saw one rather than if you listened to a ghost story around a campfire. In other words, we give significantly more credibility to the things we experience than we do to the things we hear. The bottom line is that this argument is made by people who don‟t, cant, or haven‟t carried openly; those of us who do so on a regular basis have an entirely different experience. I’m Not Comfortable Carrying Openly: This is really the only reasonable argument against open carry for an individual. We all have a comfort zone for any aspect of our lives and we prefer to stay within that comfort zone. We all agree that it‟s better to be armed and never need the firearm than it is to need it and not have it. There is a point where concealing your firearm becomes so problematic, due to conditions like temperature or comfort, that some choose to either leave it behind or carry in such a way that it would be difficult or impossible to draw it quickly. If it takes me five or six seconds to draw my firearm from deep concealment and I had sufficient time before hand to actually do so, I would prefer to use that five or six seconds to avoid the entire encounter. I‟m glad we have concealed carry laws in most of the states; it empowers and protects not only us but the general public through the offset deterrent effect. Some of us, however, choose the more direct deterrent effect of open carry. Conclusion No, open carry is not the be-all-end-all of self defense any more than concealed carry is. The purpose of this essay is not to convince you to carry a firearm openly, but to merely point out the reasoning I used to determine that it is often the best option for me. If you think otherwise, please feel free to write an essay of your own outlining the reasoning you used. I would suggest that you avoid the intellectual mistake of emphasizing rare or unlikely defense scenarios that many of us will never experience. I believe one should prioritize for the most likely threat, not the least likely threat. I don‟t put Hollywood style bank robberies high on my threat list because I rarely go into a bank and those types of robberies are very rare themselves. I live in the most crime riddled city in the northwest; the most likely threat here is some young male with a knife or gun trying to carjack me or mug me on the street, in the park, or in a parking lot. With this knowledge I build my personal self protection plan based on that manner of attack. This may not suit you, especially if you live in Hollywood.

Have you ever open carried? I doubt out since the ones who make those statements usually haven't. Most bad guys want an easy target, easy get away. They don't want to risk dying over a few bucks. The risk of sneaking up on someone that is openly carrying is too high.

Will do. Btw, cool feature to get notified when someone quotes you.

okay, I have no idea how this stuff works lol. Hopefully they'll convert. I'm digging the mobile version, much easier to navigate. And I'm only ever on on my phone anymore. Good job Ben

I noticed that previously embedding YouTube videos are only links now, can't click them and they look like this: [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LksBJbjGP3A]Unorthodox Shooting Positions Demo Drill - YouTube[/ame Is this a mobile thing or stuff didn't transfer over correctly? Just noticed ask the videos and some pictures in the gun info thread aren't showing up correctly

How many reports of an open carrier being actively targeted are there?

How do you rep and multi quote in the mobile version?

You should trade me for my fzr. Or sell to me cheap.

Damn triple post....

Hi. I always thought it was FNG, not NFG.

Damn triple post....

No smellavision, MT and a few others would bring a whole new meaning to the word "troll"

Holy piss casperman! Hell of a change! Looks really good, can't wait to check it all out.

One shower for everyone and make everyone wear swim suits, problem solved.

I use diesel, kerosene or wd40 sprayed into a cup.My understanding is its the propellant that's bad for the o rings ?

Don't always trust video, you're only getting part of the story.

One period in that entire post...

Hell yeah, repped

Yeah the Chris Kyle thread is what did it for me. Lack of respect for someone that's done more in a year than someone has his entire life. That thread Magley was out of line

No surprise there. Glocks are way overrated.

I'd imagine you could, I think theirs enough room for your glasses. I'll have to check and let you know.