Bubba

Not gonna get into the middle of this argument, but the coroner can rule a death homicide without it being an indictable offense. Homicide is the legal definition of "death of a human caused by another human"…. Completely different from murder or criminal or negligent homicide (which would be legal charges brought by the prosecutor in a death ruled homicide by the coroner). Technically, an inmate put to death by the state is a homicide, albeit a legal one. EDIT: Rats! You beat me to it.

They can lay brick/block all winter, even down below freezing. They'll add a little CaCl to the mortar to keep it warm and from freezing; it weakens it a bit, but you're just setting block, not pouring a foundation. Should be good to go into the low 20s or even teens.

True, if you 1) can write off the loss/depreciation costs, and 2) have a need to drive the latest/greatest/newest vehicle all the time. Realistically, the monthly payments are based on the lease duration and residual value, and so you end up paying for the bulk of the vehicle's early years depreciation and then have nothing to show for it after 3-4 years….and that's if you don't blow your mileage allotment. Sorry, but unless you REALLY need to be driving a vehicle that's less than 2-3 years old, buying--and keeping--makes more sense. Your argument for leasing holds true only if you buy and then sell and upgrade every few years.

You mean leasing as in long-term, i.e., 2-3-4 years? Vs rental as in by the hour or the day? Biggest issue I see is that leases typically appeal to the buyer wanna-be who has OK disposable income but no free cash saved for the down payment. Not sure how that would work for a bike buyer. Seems like the greater risk of loss would require a large dp, but then you might as well just buy outright. This comes with the disclaimer that I've never leased a vehicle and never understood the mindset of renting a rapidly depreciating asset and then returning it after the majority of the value loss has been realized. I suppose there are advantages for business tax write-offs. Don't know if that would apply to a MC….

Hmmm.…not really sure that's certifiable evidence that she's sane and intelligent, but by golly, she sure is outspoken…. I lean to the side of the officer in the Brown shooting. There's enough evidence to vindicate the shooter. MB's actions directly led to his death.

Fascinating how this works…. You weren't involved in any way other than as the aggrieved party, and yet you're the one dancing on hot coals…. Interesting. Things that make you go "Hmmmmm..."

Not really weird. My State Farm auto policies actually have a listing of all the names of insured drivers on the semi-annual renewal statement, and the rating specifically excludes any drivers under the age of 25. Keeps my rates low. Obviously, I'm not one to freely loan my vehicles out.

I guess that's pretty much my point. If the kid HAD been a shooter intent on putting some bullets into a cop, one or both of the responders would have been dead before they got out of the car. Just seems like a reckless and stupid move that screams incompetence on the part of the officers. Of course, we're all analyzing this scenario with the wisdom of 20-20 hindsight….

Actually Ebay sells a lot of Chinese plastic, some of it crap and some of it pretty good (for aftermarket). Prices range from $225-250 for the really cheap stuff to $500-600 for the pieces that will prolly fit pretty well. The stuff to avoid is labelled "vacuum formed" or "vacuum molded" and is the stuff selling for under $300. Look for the wording "injection molded" in the ad--that's the stuff you want. Much of the higher priced stuff is pre-drilled, but won't come with any attachment hardware. Hardware kits can also be found on Ebay and some of the stuff is even made in the US. None of the Chinese body kits are gonna be OEM quality, but this is definitely one of those things where the saying "You get what you pay for" is accurate.

Cooter: I AM aware that a car door isn't bullet-proof, unless you're Bruce Willis…. ….although I'm pretty sure that a wooden dining table will stop military rounds from an automatic assault rifle. On the other hand, I wouldn't have wanted to be the poor cop sitting in the passenger seat--probably belted in--watching out the side window as the reported gun-wielding suspect started to move toward him. I'll take a 25-40 foot separation with time to unbuckle and assume a shielded crouching position over that anytime.

Is it OK if I point out that you guys are debating the Cleveland shooting in the Michael Brown thread? I agree that the kid (Tamir Rice) shouldn't have been shot for his actions shown on the video….Michael Brown, on the other hand, probably caused his own death. I still say that the REAL trigger of what appears to be an overly quick shooting was as a direct result of the driver-cop's actions. If he hadn't pulled up with his partner's door less than 10 feet from a reported 'kid with a gun' the shooter wouldn't have had to make a snap decision. If the car had been stopped further back and angled in a position where the passenger door could have been used as a shield, there would have been additional time for the shooter to assess the situation and take a defensive position. In this case, it appears to me both of the officers were incompetent….at best.

I'm not gonna say that indictment in either the NY chokehold case or the Cleveland shooting case was justified or unjustified since I lack facts, but…. ….did you ever stop and consider that the DOJ is just as corrupt, just as politically motivated, and just as much of a tool as most of the prosecutorial departments that you're railing against? Our nation is suffering from deeper racial divides than 10-20 years ago. IMHO, Obama's presidency--rather heal and uplift the black community--has done potentially irreparable harm to unbiased racial judgment and created the black-white schism we are experiencing today. Feds are in it up to their asses along with the rest of our incompetent public agencies.

Gotta be a fake. Looks like a seriously bad 'Photochop'. If real, however, that'd be motivation enough for me….

NP. Hell, I didn't even notice; I never give any thought to that anyway. Pretty sure the only folks that pay attention to the negs are the moderators. Honestly, I didn't know you could follow who gives out the +'s and -'s. Good to know, tho--I can start my stalking campaign immediately….

Hmmm. Interesting rant. What exactly does it mean? The world is full of pussies and thugs, and the only thing keeping them apart is the cops? I'm conflicted…. I'm with you on the 'fewer cops' idea, tho, especially when I'm hooning the backwoods.

Oh believe me….I get it. If I was the cop, I wouldn't want to face that 'piece' down not knowing it was a toy. More to my earlier post, I'm not blaming the shooter. With the clarity of 20:20 hindsight, I think a less abrupt approach by the officer driving the patrol car could have possibly prevented the tragedy. Still convinced it could have been avoided with a more judicious approach. I've seen the entire video posted previously, and while the kid appeared to be aggressive, he hadn't done anything more than bluster. I don't think a personal video cam worn by the cop would provide any additional information to vindicate the cop.

This seems the most likely path that will be taken after the recent spate on cop shootings, but cameras can be a double-edged sword. There will always be grey areas with every person-to-person interaction, which once captured on digital media can be used both for and against each party. Let's make the premise that everything in life is recorded. A busy mom or dad forgets the kid in the car seat and a child dies in a hot car. Almost certainly a horrible accident, but do we indict? A teenager reaches for something in his car and crosses the center line and kills another driver. Accidental or indictable? A hunter drops his rifle and kills his hunting partner. Accident or negligent homicide? In all these incidents, a camera would show when and where things went terribly wrong, but would it prove innocence or guilt? Show malice of forethought? Record a human lapse of judgement? Who's gonna interpret the data? From which viewpoint will the person behind camera be judged? Can we realistically achieve a sufficient level of training for police to ensure no error will ever be made? Human beings are susceptible to making mistakes, and yet do we hold an officer accountable to a higher standard of 'infallibility' than we do ordinary people?

I'm definitely standing with Magz on this one. zx3vfr is painting with a pretty broad brush…. No evidence the kid was associated with gangs in any way or that his parents were negligent. 12 year old kid is still young enough to be playing in a park with a toy gun.

I see this as a much greater tragedy than the Ferguson incident. Again, the only info I have is the video, but where I see a procedural failure and in my opinion, the direct cause of the shooting, is the actions of the officer DRIVING the cop car. He pulled up within feet of the suspect, with the passenger side door in direct line of fire with the gun. If I was the cop riding shotgun, I'd be freaking out immediately too!!! It seems to me that if the driver had approached at a head-on angle, where the open door could be used as a shield, or at the very least, stopped the car farther away from the suspect so immediate engagement wouldn't be necessary, the cop/shooter wouldn't have felt he was in imminent danger when he exited the car. Disclaimer: I'm not trained in law enforcement, nor have I had active shooter training, so maybe what happened is exactly what cops are trained to do in such a situation, but it doesn't make a lot of sense from my armchair. The reality of a cop's job--where they interact with the lowest common denominator of society (NOT a racial comment, btw) and encounter kids with guns on a daily basis--is that, if they have a desire to survive and to go home to their families at the end of their shift, I can see/understand the the impulse to shoot first before being shot at. That doesn't make it right, but it sure is a fallible human response, and cops are both fallible and human. We gotta stop 'creating' tragedies like this if the US is gonna move forward. Whether it means more guns and cops on the street, better police training, or stricter gun laws, I don't have a clue. My sympathies are with the cop, the kid, and their respective families. Shouldn't have to happen this way…

Magz: That was clearly NOT simple jaywalking. You got quite a penchant for obfuscating the facts and turning other's words into a left-wing jab. I admit that I know little of the details of the incident other than what is shown in the video, but I can assure that if it was me in that car with my wife and kids, I wouldn't have stopped in the first place. If you watch closely at the end of the video after the confrontation, it's evident that the protestors had smashed the windshield, tried to rip off the front and rear wiper arms, and were violently banging on the car. Any harm done to the rioters in the crowd (See, I can play that game, too ) is clearly self-defense in that instance. If that had been a husband--or wife--with CCL, the vehicle prolly wouldn't have been the only deadly force used.

Actually surprised they were still standing around waiting for the cops. Almost zero chance they have insurance. Sorry about the hassle, but even more sorry about the 'Stang! Beautiful machine.

No idea if this warning is in reference to my post, but I made no mention of race whatsoever. As a matter of fact, the news broadcast showed there were as many white protestors playing in traffic as there were black. I believe the term I used used was "fools" and I stand by my assessment.

Bunch of fools are running around downtown Cinti waving signs. At one point, a fair number wandered out onto both the north- and southbound lanes of I-75 near the District 1 police HQs and tried to shut down the interstate. Now mind you, this was during the end of the rush hour surge about 6:30-7ish in the mostly pitch black darkness. Haven't heard if there were any casualties, but you gotta be pretty stupid to put on dark clothes and a weird mask and rush out into 4 lanes of traffic, most of which is commercial truck traffic. I'm guessing a phalanx of 18-wheelers 4 wide at about 45-50 MPH would do a way better job of clearing the freeway obstruction than a whole squad of police….

Yes, the Boomers have paid far more into SS than any other generation; when the Boomer generation matures--and that'll be happening imminently--it'll also collect more than any other previous generation. However, if you really feel the need to blame SS problems on the disparity of how much was paid in vs how much was collected, look no further than your parents and blame them. The amount they've collected and are collecting still vs what they paid in is FAR GREATER than any gen to come after. But if you have a smidgen of common sense and can do the math, turns out it isn't your parents that are the problem; it isn't the Boomers that are the problem, either--Boomers are the folks that are SOLELY responsible for the decades of SS fund surplus (if you believe we have one). It's our damn representatives than have ignored the obvious problem of underfunding for several decades, kicking the can down the road, and using the SS revenue for general fund items. Sure, there's a US government bond guarantee on the borrowed funds, but it's backed by the same government that is trillions of dollars in debt and have been running deficit budgets for years to the tune of hundreds of billions of dollars. These are the folks we voted for….and voted for again….and blindly reelected again and again. We the voters have been paying them huge salaries to sit in Washington and accomplish NOTHING for years!!! Look in the mirror, folks. There's the problem.

Very true. Can you imagine how bad the end zone touchdown dances would suck if it was a white guy doing the celebrating?