Bubba

If you decide to roll and the weather is on the cold side, I have a pair of e-gloves you can borrow. They use a proprietary Widder connector but all you have to do is wire the leads directly to the battery for the trip. Not water proof and not the best for rash protection, but warm enough. As I said earlier, you can buy a couple packs of hand warmers and stick them in the backs of your winter gloves and it keeps your hands pretty toasty. I looked at your route. Easily doable in a day. Leave as early as you can in the morning after dawn, i.e., roll by 8:30-9ish, and you'll easily get to your destination before dark. #3 is a non-issue. I've ridden down in southern KY and rural routes in TN and had no problems. They'll respect you as long as you respect them. Now, if you were doing an enduro/off-road//trail mix down in southern KY and you happened come across a well-maintained field in the middle of nowhere, it's always a good idea to turn around and quietly head back the way you came in. Riding down in DBNF several years ago, I ran into a couple of guys in suits standing next to a Lincoln Mark V parked in the middle of a rutted out, gravel path W-A-Y out in the boonies; when I asked where the trail went further on, they said "It dont go nowhere so you might as well just turn around"…. I did. On the road, no problem.

Depending on how far north you plan on wandering, you may find some of the higher elevation routes impassable still. Of course, a lot depends on the harshness of the winter, but certainly roads like the Beartooth highway and Going-to-the-Sun highway usually don't open until late June-early July at the earliest. Pics of Logan's Pass Visitor Center June 4, 2011 (helicopter flyover): https://www.flickr.com/photos/glaciernps/5806258692/in/photostream/

350 miles of backroads is an easily doable length for a day ride, poor weather notwithstanding. That's a pretty accurate time for that distance, too, given that you will likely encounter some traffic that will keep you at or close to the speed limit. Plan to take a butt break and/or a fuel stop every 2-3 hours or so and take water or a sports drink along to stay hydrated (yes, even in the winter). If the temps are much below mid-40s, you'll have to make sure you're wearing the right gear, whether that's Gore-Tex/heated/layered. Hands and feet are the toughest to keep warm, especially if it's wet. An easy trick for a one-time ride--where you really don't want to invest a metric shit-ton of cash in cold weather endurance clothing--is to hit Bass Pro or other hunting supply store and pick up the "wearable" heat packs for your boots, hands and even your torso. The large adhesive wraps made by Therma-Care (available in the pharmacy) can add heat to your core for 8-10 hours under your riding gear. I think that either of your bikes would be fine for this type of ride; take the one you're most comfortable on and go for it.

I'll be there to drink a beer with you before you head off for your tour. Only date I can't make is the 13th.

Joe: You always have the option of reporting the alleged abuse to either the police or the county humane society. Unfortunately for the animals, it takes a pretty high level of abuse/neglect/cruelty to trigger an intervention. Got one of those neglected dogs next door to my sister and called Ham Cty SPCA a couple of times. Bottom line, if the dog has adequate shelter and access to food and water, not much can be done. Lack of socialization isn't one of the criteria.

Shoot Brian Mullins (Kanatuna on AFJ) a text. He owns a shop in Cinti and does a metric shit-ton of work on the old, loud dirty stuff. I'll PM his cell # to ya.

Day-um. Yer good. BTW, it's we're…and disregard

Ouch! And "Zing!" C'mon, they are actually pretty good folks for the most part. Plus, we southerners are a LOT CLOSER to great riding in NKY. Sure, they've got their douche nozzles and winter drama-fests….just like another regional OH motorcycle forum I know, hmm?

I guess I missed these posts--haven't seen them. While I don't agree with those opinions in ANY way, he appears to me to be unrelentingly liberal. There was a time that I could have been swayed by Obama's rhetoric and I actually thought he might be good for this country, as much by becoming our first black president as for his diametrically opposed views of another 4-more-years-of-Bush-policy-as-usual that McCain was espousing. That was before his election in '08. As I've stated here previously, I believe now that Obama has done more to widen the black-white schism in this country than any other public figure in recent decades.

I'm gonna step up and defend Magz here….at least in defense of his unwavering liberal views. The reason he doesn't go with the majority isn't simply due to a perverse inclination to argue--as far as I can tell from reading his posts, he's pretty much firm in his anti-gun/anti-conservative posts. The fact that the majority of posters on OR are staunch gun rights advocates is the main reason he always seems to be espousing an opposing viewpoint. He may be in the minority here, but he's got a right to his opinions, and he's stuck to them--blindly or not--in the face of ridicule and criticism on this forum. I'm OK with him stating his case--that's what makes this an interesting world.

That's not gonna work. They'll know he doesn't have any cool stuff to steal...

Joe: Check out Eastern Beaver. Lots of options for pre-wired blocks w&w/o relay. http://www.easternbeaver.com/Main/Wiring_Kits/Fuseboxes/PC-8/pc-8.html

…in a twist on the infamous words of Crocodile Dundee, "That's not lane sharing; now, THIS IS LANE SHARING!" Apologies if this is a repost…. <iframe width="640" height="360" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/Wq_6toXQCdk?feature=player_detailpage" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe> Dammit, I keep screwing up the embed link. You smart guys will figger it out.

PM'd you

^ ^ ^ This is good advice ^ ^ ^ Winter is a tough time for a new rider to get quality riding experience quickly. Ride times are usually short and few and far between. Roads are slippery with grit, gravel, salt, and sometimes the slimy calcium chloride they use to pre-treat for ice. Cold tires have far less grip on cold pavement than they would in summer. Moisture frequently condenses on cold road surfaces, making tar snakes slippery and in the worst case scenario, freezing into black ice. Take your time and slow down. All the experienced motorcyclists who roll thru the winter when the weather cooperates ride more slowly than in warm temps, and you should too. Drop your tire pressures down to around 30 psi front and 30-32 rear to help with traction (unless you plan on riding extended distance at high speed or heavily loaded). This will wear your tires a bit faster, but you're not gonna get that many miles in over the winter anyway. Watch out for hypothermia; even if you just feel cold enough to start shivering, your reaction times are reduced from the ideal. Don't be "THAT GUY" who spent $8000 on a new bike but is too cheap to buy him/herself quality gear. No, you don't need a $1700 Aerostich suit or Klim riding gear to roll around town as a newb, but you can find decent budget riding jacket and pants with CE armor at on-line discount stores like Jaffrum, Cycle Gear, Motorcycle Superstore. And in case you haven't taken the MSF course, do so at the earliest possible timing. You'll live longer and enjoy your rides more!!!

One of the other questions I need answered--prolly a pretty simple answer for those that have a CCW license--is what laws apply to carry, either open or concealed, when you're riding? I don't have any secure, lockable storage on my bike--soft luggage only--so my assumption is that the ONLY LEGAL OPTION TO CARRY ON A BIKE is with a CCW license. Without the license, I can't picture how a rider could comply with the regulations that apply to transporting firearms in a vehicle. Any informed advice would be welcome.

Funny, but when I think about Dayton Mall (I've only been there a few times and it was quite a few years ago) I envision a typical middle-class, small town suburban environment. Guess things change quickly. My daughter and family lived in Springboro--and now in Lebanon--and she said that ever since Dayton Metro put in a bus stop close to the mall, things have dramatically changed in terms of security. She basically said she'll no longer go shopping there after dark. I can't understand how the owners/management of a high-dollar investment like a mega-mall can allow their customer base to dwindle over an issue like parking lot security.

Magz is right, with a few cautions…. If you bought the bike from out-of-state, you'll need to take the bike and the title to either the BMV or a dealer to have it inspected and the VIN verified. Just a bit of formality and another piece of paper. I assume you bought a "new" bike from a dealer (meaning "brand new" not "used but new to you"). If the dealer was in-state and provided a title, you're good to go. A long time ago, I bought a new vehicle and only received the MCO (Manufacturer's Certificate of Origin) from the dealer. In this case, you will also need to take the bike and the MCO to the BMV and have it inspected and a new OH title issued. Both of those scenarios are unusual, as typically an OH title in hand is all you need to plate a vehicle.

Meef: Thanks for the response. Appreciate the insight. With respect to your first para, the obvious flaw is that I'm applying the typical moral-view-of-the-world thought process where a contract is written and followed by both parties. This is obviously NOT THE CASE in a bad guy confrontation. No guarantee that the contract will be honored once the transaction--the surrender of the valuable(s)--has been completed. That comes from me having lived a long time and not being placed in a situation as described. And to your second para, you can see my previous posts on the Brown and the Cleveland shootings. I'm firmly on the side of the officer/shooter in both the MO cases, based on the information revealed so far. As for the Cleveland case, I agree that the officer/shooter was left with little response time or escape options as a result of his partner driving the car to within 5-10 feet of the suspect. Something that was terribly unfortunate and perhaps avoidable with a different approach to the situation unfolding. Again, easier to judge and assess with the wisdom of 20:20 hindsight. It's with an eye to the above cases that I asked my initial question. Not sure how I would respond….something I guess I better explore as I go forward with my training. Thanks!

Aww, c'mon….let's stop being so stingy and gift 'em all: Hillary, Britney, Miley, Nicki Minaj, Lady Gaga, Iggy Azalea, Katy Perry, Al Sharpton, Reverend Jesse Feel free to add to the list. After all, it's Christmas!!!

A follow-up question for any of the posters: It seems to me that the decision to shoot would have to be made immediately when the threat was imminent where the attackers are actually invading your personal space. To me, this means not closer than 3-4 feet. Each of you has stated you wouldn't shoot merely to protect a material possession, and yet once faced with a gun and three attackers (as reported in the link above) you have only an instant to make the decision whether to hand over the shoes/your wallet/whatever, or draw and fire. This was made painfully evident in the Cleveland shooting, possibly in both the MO shootings, and in the Middletown case. I realize every situation is gonna play out differently, but what bothers me is….if it's that difficult for a highly trained professional LEO to make a reasoned and justified split second decision, how are average citizens supposed to perform carefully and sanely under the same stress?

Here is a link to the incident: http://www.springfieldnewssun.com/news/news/crime-law/would-be-teen-robber-shot-to-death/njYqM/#__federated=1 Disclaimer: I don't currently hold a CCW license. I am signed up for handgun training classes at Point Blank here in Cinti and am considering continuing with CCW training. Most importantly, I really don't want this to devolve into a black-v-white racial discussion. Just trying to gain some perspective from anyone who currently carries, preferably someone who has law enforcement or military background, or at least has years of carry experience and significant formal training. What I'm trying to come to grips with is how to reconcile the right to carry with the knowledge that if you DO carry, you have to be willing to use your gun and lethal force in such a situation where a threat is made. Second guessing isn't something I often do, and of course the clarity of 20:20 hindsight is easy to come by…. So, I'm trying to wrap my mind around the obvious challenge of whether it's rightful to shoot someone who is engaged in trying to rob you of your $200 shoes. I understand that the reports are the teen was using a handgun to rob the shooter. How does an average person walk around a midwest suburban shopping mall in broad daylight while carrying and have the mental preparation to be willing to use lethal force to prevent a robbery? Obviously, if you put the gun in your hand (draw) you MUST be willing to pull the trigger, but I can't ever picture myself as having the mental state of mind where my FIRST REACTION would be to pull my gun--honestly, I would simply give the shoes up first, under the assumption the "transaction" would end there. Of course, the other fly in the ointment here is that the mall has a policy that prohibits concealed carry, so it sounds likely that the shooter will at least be charged with some type of violation, whatever that entails. I presume it's private property, but I have no clue as to whether the shooter could face felony charges or a simple misdemeanor, or whether the mall owners would have to bring the charges…. I'm not trying to stir up a shit-storm with this question, and I think the final answer to my question--for me--will be "If I can't draw and fire, then don't carry" but that seems too simplistic. Are there degrees of judgement/varying options with the privilege to carry? Or is it totally a shoot-or-be-shot world? Does the right to carry also subject you to the burden of "kill upon first provocation" as the only solution? Please no flaming in this thread. Reasoned answers would be appreciated. Thanks--Bubba

Link: http://theweek.com/article/index/274141/speedreads-gun-control-psa-urges-kids-to-steal-parents-guns-and-give-them-to-teachers Quoted from Yahoo The controversial Dec. 13 clip from Sleeper 13 Productions in San Francisco, titled “Stop Gun Violence - PSA,” shows a teenage boy take a handgun from his mother’s dresser drawer, stash it in his backpack, and bring it to class. Walking up to his teacher after the period ends, the student slaps the gun on her desk. “Can you take this away?” the child actor asks the shocked teacher. “I don’t feel safe with a gun in my house.” Then the messages “Our children deserve a safe world” and “Stop gun violence now” are plastered onscreen before production credits run, notably lacking any sponsors or collaborating organizations. The Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms even put out a press release detailing the number of crimes depicted in the piece. “We’re talking about felony theft of a firearm, illegal possession of a handgun by a minor, having a gun in a school, illegal concealed carry by a minor, brandishing and maybe one or two other crimes, depending upon the jurisdiction,” wrote chairman Alan Gottlieb on Dec. 22. “… At the very least, the boy in this video would wind up being arrested and face felony charges.” As should the creator, Gottlieb continued: “The message of this video is so monumentally stupid that if any youth does something like this after watching it, the producers should face charges.”

Damn Joe! That is Sa-WEET!!! . . . . . Ummm, ya wanna trade me for a Z1000? When are you headed to CO? Front range might not be closed quite yet…. FYI, that's WAY TOO PURTY to get dirty. Better let me store it in my garage for ya.

Wow!!! Great day with a big turnout. I didn't do an official count, but I'd bet there were close to 20 riders that headed out from Milford. First things first: Kudos to Scott Hyflyer for taking the lead and showing the group the backroads of the east side of Cinti on both the ride out and the return. Couldn't have done it without you!!! :thumbsup There were lots of guys I've never met and didn't get to speak with individually, so I won't try to name everyone, but both LocalRiders and Assfault Junkies were well represented. There was the usual swarm of WeeStroms--at least 5 that I counted--plus the typical suspects riding a couple of BMW twins, a Duc MS, at least one KLR, an FZ6, a vintage Wing, a couple of Connies, and a few others I can't quite remember. The morning was DAMN COLD, but the air warmed up enough to make the return trip a bit more tolerable. I left the house about 9:30 and took CC/RR Hwy to Montgomery and then wiggled thru the back roads in Indian Hill--just about bought the farm on Kugler Mill Rd when I found some of that black ice BC was hatin' on yesterday--and snuck into Milford the back way. Finally got home about 3:30 after covering just about 200 miles. Grabbed a tall glass of Crown whiskey and went to sit in the sauna for about 30 minutes to thaw out when I got home. :beer Here's some photo-documentation that proves there are folks crazy enough to think riding in sub-freezing weather is fun…. Suiting up at Cracker Barrel…iiiiiiinnn Milford!!! At the Mound… Glissom was definitely in the holiday spirit… Scott was warning us we had to make a break for it quickly, as the Wiccan's were beginning to outnumber us… Bannister is planning on buying a Ural to go with his hat, as soon as he grows up…. ...and NO!!! Woody (prickbastardthatheis) didn't feel like sharing ANY of HIS holiday spirit with the rest of the group... The reason we rode today….