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Was the bike stolen on the 12th, or just reported stolen on the 12th. OP?

Someone ask them what color it is?

Dude - your phone has Tourettes

Interesting. Investigators have gone on records saying that Z profiled, chased and murdered M, simple as that. That makes three things clears to me: - self defense is still permissable, they just don't think this is self defense - SYG is irrelevant because they don't think it is self defense. They don't believe the "second encounter" line. - Z had better be able to prove his injuries etc. If he can then this will be a short trial.

Learn to speak in generalities. You cannot condemn someone for doing something legal just because you would not do it. Let's you and me head down to my dojo and I'll pin you in the way we are envisaging based upon Zimmerman's version of events - we'll see where your elbows get you against folks of different fighting abilities. We have whitebelt JJ guys (me included) who know how to keep an untrained person on the deck, all the way up to a state champion who could could knock you down, keep you pinned, choke you out and do his taxes all at the same time. Do you do any fighing sports? Your confidence suggests you are a younger guy with more confidence than real-world exprience. I just got done debating with one of our blackbelts who said guns are for wimps, hand-to-hand is the way to go. A quick chat about how any empty-hand fighting style would fare against a gun-toting bad guy who knows about range and retention changed his mind, thankfully.

I dispute the assertion that an unarmed person is incapable to being a deadly threat. I've said it before and I'll say it again - Zimmerman following Martin was unwise, but not illegal. Beyond that, it's all in the hands of the courts. Our justice system is not perfect but it's better than "trial by tv".

Semantics. 6'3, 160lbs is adult-size.

It should also be noted that in order for Zimmerman to clain that he withdrew and that martin started a new encounter, there has to be a seperation of time and / or distance that would allow a reasonable person to cool off. Zimmerman must convince the judge/jury that any encounter that was precipitated by his following martin was completely separate from any encounter that Martin may have started. Zimmerman claims he stopped following Martin and turned around and walked away: - Where was Martin when he became aware that Zimmerman had truned around. - Where was Zimmerman when Martin initiated the alleged second encounter? If we are talking about less than 20' then the court may consider that part of the same encounter, started by Zimmerman. IF we are talking 100' or more, then Martin will likely be considered to have had plenty chance to cool off and depart, making any second encounter a separate thing, started by Martin, re-establishing Z's right to self-defense. How much time passed between those same two points? 5 seconds? Probabyl will be ruled the same encounter. 2 minutes? Probably a new encounter. This is the level of detail the investigation has to be lookign at - and even finer. Where did the bullet hit M? Why did the gun not cycle? Was M holding the gun too? (proves a struggle for the gun but does not prove wether the gun was a the cause of, or in repsonse to, a deadly-force attack). Was the bullet found? through-and-through? Was the bullet found embedded in a nearby object thereby help establing M's position when he was shot? Did the bullet hit in in the gut/chest on Z's dominant side (suggests Z and M were face-to-face, less than a foot, and Z was unable to present the gun and take proper aim)? GSR on M's torso would also support that. Was the bullet wound straight-on with no GSR on M's hand or body, suggesting at least a 3-4' separation, making it difficult to claim he was pinned down. Too many questions. My head is spinning.

If the trial bears out the assertion that he disengaged and walked away, and that martin initiated a new confrontation, then self defense is back on the table. This was never about SYG. Either Zimmerman initiated the deadly confrontation (which is not self defense) or Zimmerman disengaged and Martin initiated a new encounter that became deadly force when Z was pinned to the ground (no ability to flee) OR what happened was halfway between, and the prosecutor knows a game-changing fact that we don't. The charge sheet indicates the weapon was drawn early in the confrontation. I want to know ecaxtly when. - IF it was drawn PRIOR to any type of assault (by either party) then it could easily become felonious assault in and of itself. - IF it was drawn during a confrontation that Zimmerman initiated then self-defense will be a tough sell. - IF it was drawn after M initiated a new deadly-force encounter then Z has a good case for self defense. The only time SYG would be relevant is in Martin assaulted Zimmerman, and Zimmerman HAD A CHANCE TO FLEE but did not. Then, and only then, is SYG a factor. Regardless, the dems want SYG gone and will knowingly misapply this case in order to futher their goal.

A similar perspective: Some of the folks I do Karate and Jujitsu with are teenagers. They are lights, skinnier, more athletic then me. However, I don't have anywhere near as much training or experience as them, and they know how to fight. Unless I get a lucky hit, I am simply no match for them. There's a couple in particular that can pin me down with ease and tap me out in seconds despite being about half my weight (And I'm only 215, 6'2") I remember one time I caught the leg of the guy I was sparring with and said; "What now, kid?" Well, I tapped out 2 seconds later after a textbook Guilllotine. For all the training I've done over the last 18months, the most important thing I have learned is not to underestimate ANYONE.

That thinking will get you killed.

I've always said that following Martin was unwise, but not illegal. Generally speaking - ignoring the Martin/Zimmerman case... There are times when an unarmed person can use deadly force. If you are being strangled by someone and you have a gun in your holster, would you rather die than "shoot an unarmed man?" Also, again speaking generally, if an unarmed person tries to disarm you would have a solid claim for self-defense, other factors notwithstanding. Imagine someone breaking into your house, and coming into your bedroom - you had enough warning to grab a shotgun. Now you suddenly find yourself nose-to-nose with the unarmed burglar. He reaches out and grabs hold of the barrel of your shotgun with both hands and tries to wrestle it away from you. He's much stronger than you are and you know you are going to lose control of the shotgun. Would you let him take the gun rather than "shoot an unarmed man?"

Where did you hear that? Do you remember the one commentator who described the relationship between Barack and Michelle Obama as strong because; "They do a lot of touching, kissing, and even fisting each other!" (She meant fist-bumping...) Found it! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyZunwOCZhY

An excellent writeup of the next steps: http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2012/04/11/whats-happens-now-that-zimmerman-is-charged-in-trayvon-martin-death/

They have information we don't have. I have to trust that their decision is sound based upon that. The trial is still to come.

Let's see what the trial uncovers.

Put your tinfoil hats away... http://www.factcheck.org/tag/nra/feed/

It wouldn't be any way. Florida First Degree Murder requires premeditation, drug distribution or another accompanying felony such as kidnapping, burglary, escape from jail etc. 2nd Degree requires no premeditation but does require the prosecutor prove Zimmerman acted with "a depraved mind regardless of human life" 3rd Degree requires they prove that Zimmerman was commiting a felony (Although they could say he committed felonious assault) I predict a very low-level charge like involuntary manslaughter (where the death resulted from a reckless or criminally negligent act that had no actual intent to kill or injure), that he will plead out and get little or no jail time.

I saw no reason for them to announce anything publicly.

The decision on charges will be released during a 6pm press conference. There is a rumour that Zimmerman "will be charged criminally", accoding to a "Senior Law Enforcement Soruce connected with the investigation" The prosecutor's office responded that no charges HAVE BEEN filed, but would not comment on if charges WILL BE filed. Of course charges could be anything from to Murder down to disorderly conduct. We'll see.

I only paid 7299 for my 2011 V-strom. Brand new, out the door, off the showroom floor. Then I put $15 hundred million billion bucks in farkles on it, so I'll accept bids starting at $10k Any minute now... Still waiting... Guys?

No training required. Legal in ohio. Smaller than a pistol but, if you hit, much more effective. Instant incapacitation for 30 seconds so you can run away or immobilize tha bad guy. Running away requires you leave the taser behind, but taser will give you a new one if that happens.

What was the official cause of death?

Yes, can drive-tase too. I don't mind the bad guy telling his side. Beats the shit out of having the public invent something.

What information did the officers have at the time of the pursuit that would suggest the passenger was no a willing passenger? Damnes if they do, damned if they don't. If they can get the plate# and the bike is not reported stolen then chasing him until he crashes would be PR hell for them. Get him at his house.