Geeto67

Fixed it for ya :gabe:

I can't remember where, but I remember reading that most people will pay about 10% more for "made in the USA" but not much more. $3.50 on a $35 sign may not be enough to offset the materials differential between here and China. That said, the "Custom" angle and the people watching it get made angle may justify a higher price, esp if your shop has it's own designs not found anywhere else, and maybe some other draw too. I don't know, I haven't worked much retail in my life, just thinking about it from the perspective what what I would buy.

It's likely can't compete with the price, but in order to say that definitively I think you have to know the actual product a little better. Do you have a specific item we can use for reference? There is always a "way" if you are resourceful, but often that relies on special factors.

Where's DJ (Orion)? We could use a 30 page back and forth about the racist implications of that comparison right about now. By what metric? Do you have any data on this? When I hear people repeat this republican propaganda talking point they never have any actual information to support it other than "it's just how they feel". Please explain, in detail. So have I, a fact which you conveniently like to ignore. If you mean republicans are more like democrats of the 60's in that they are subservient to the military industrial complex and pushing war and colonization, then you'd pretty spot on. However issues like Civil rights, education, military benefits, Social programs to address poverty and inequality etc...they haven't really waivered on. I guess if none of those things are important to you.... I have stated ad nauseum that I have been and always will be an independent voter devoid of party. I have also self identified as politically progressive, and focused more on issues than candidates and policy drawn from data and facts. Seriously go back and actually read anything I've written on politics over the years on this forum and you will find that a consistent theme. Also, since I just feel I am going to have to address this: being a progressive is not the same as being a "liberal". They can look similar at times because well, caring about other humans is going to look the same regardless of party or political ideology. The main difference between a modern political liberal and a progressive in the US is that liberalism seems to be focused on equality and opportunity through budget policy, where as a progressive approach is focused more on writing efficient and meaningful regulation. It is undisputed historical fact that those looking to preserve white supremacy manipulated the laws of this country for their benefit and to preserve an institution of inequality of opportunity and to create a wealthy defacto ruling class, and not enough has been done to undo that harm in the body of the actual legislation. That's where I am coming from. And before I have to listen about libertarianism and the GOP, The last libertarian in any meaningful role in the GOP was John McCain and he's been dead for years now. Once the GOP sold out to an evangelical platform it pushed any socially progressive libertarians out of the party and any libertarian agenda into a false promise. For as much as I respect William F Buckley, he always said that the role of conservatism was to to critical of progress through legislation - which in reality means conservative ideology is dependent on progressive ideology to balance it out, and when left unchecked is harmful to the american public and democracy as a whole. This is why I think the modern GOP in the era of trump has nothing of value to offer the american people except loss of equality and opportunity - because it serves to at best preserve manipulated systems and at worst remove legislation that creates and protects equality. Federal Government policy affects everyone in this country, whether they realize it or not. If you look back at what I actually wrote, you'll see I've spelled out who and how possible scenarios will affect people, so saying "I can't even admit" that a mileage charge will affect everyone is basically telling that you didn't read what I wrote or didn't understand it.

Are we talking about track cars or street cars? yeah, if you are looking for a car to gut and tinker with constantly in chase of lap times, 944 isn't as heavy a pig as a 928 and for a long time they were $1000 cars running all day. At $1000 it's hard to beat any running Porsche. At the $5000 entry fee they are now, with a 928 being roughly the same and really sorted nice ones touching $10K I don't see the value. For a car that I want to take to Athens and do the windy 9 with 2 kids in? I'd rather have the 928. I've known a few 944 owners and they aren't exactly known for their reliability either. Even when new they were problem ridden. My cousin Joann bought a 1990 new and that thing was in the shop constantly. I feel like Porsche really didn't figure out the 924/944 chassis till the 968 and those cars are a really good value and known for their reliability and shared parts bin with the 993. They look better than a 944 too. Actually I think high mileage ones are in or close to clay's budget range now so I'm going to throw that in as my suggestion, plus they had a roadster version. The 928 seems to me to have a better more tight knit community. 944's are kinda all over the place but talk to the landshark guys at any big car event here in town - they do garage sessions with each other and trade parts, it's an active local scene. I have driven a few 996's including NA ones and 1 turbo. Every car could use more power than it has stock it's kind of why we are all here. It's funny that you mention clout, the one reason I love the 996 is that so many "car people" hate it and for a really dumb reason (headlights). To me the 911 is a really useful performance car, a sort of "do it all" kind of car. but people find all sorts of things for themselves in cars.

+1 Trash cars, that need a motor swap to be interesting. Also they are appreciating for some reason. Honestly, I don't know why anyone would look at a 944 when 928's exist? they are so close in price and upkeep and the 928 is a way better car (v8, rwd, backseat, and squashed ACM pacer styling)

how do you know that it will affect the least who can afford it if you don't know how the tax is levied and collected? It's just a feeling at this point, but one that lets you just channel some strong anger you have toward the president. Just like the rest of us, it's just a hunch and you may be right and may be wrong, but being a hunch isn't stopping you from rooting for red and against blue. If you are just going to be a republican simp, then just own it. Stop pretending like you have fair and balanced (pun intended) informed opinions or that you are impartial. Be honest with yourself.

$50M to do what exactly though - that's the point. Nobody knows yet how the federal program is going to work, even though it now has a budget. If you listen to Mace he can tell you that it 100% is going to fuck over the little guy, even though nobody knows how the mileage tax is actually going to work yet. right!, but fuel was always the consumable that closely links to mileage. That's why we had a fuel tax to pay for the damage done by miles traveled by each car over the road in the first place. The federal government turned the refineries into tax collectors by taxing them and making it a cost of doing business that they pass on to the customer. That's usually how the federal government works - it creates an incentive in others (usually private industry) to do the expensive work. It ends by mentioning it but not telling you how. That's my point. Nobody knows the how yet, and too many people are jumping to scream "burn the tax raising socialist" before the mechanics of the tax has even been written. The technology is out there right now, in development not use, that has the EV's charger identifying itself to the power grid. The initial development plan was for the grid to recognize EV's and to actually pull power from their batteries for spikes in the grid and then replace it (basically using all EVs as a network of backup batteries). The side effect of having the car identify itself to the grid directly is that kw hours could be specifically tracked. A gas tax and a kw hours used tax are defacto versions of a mileage tax, because it is taxing a consumable associated with mileage. Don't get hung up on the strict definition of what is a VMT and what isn't - if it functionally works as one that may very well be where congress lands, if they land at all. Everything has it's unique challenges. That's why $50M was earmarked to study it and figure it out. See this is the state/federal trap. The registration of your vehicle is handled at the state level, not the federal. The Fed gov involvement in vehicles is literally limited to writing guidelines that the states and manufacturers adopt and enforce and taxing vehicles imported. That's it. The federal government isn't entitled to piggyback on the state's scheme and information without the state's permission and in states that value sovereignty (looking at you Texas) that's a hard sell. Additionally if the Fed gov want's to use the information or have the state do extra work, they have to pay for it so yeah, it's costly because the state is paying for it and then the federal government has to pay for the work the state is doing to report to them, plus build a new branch on the IRS to analyze the data and make sure they are getting paid. $50M that's just for the research - new IRS departments? add another zero to the end. we already have a model for this: The income tax system. You know how you file a return for federal income tax, and then you file different forms for state, and different again for local? Yeah, that but with mileage and tax collection. Federal Fuel tax ONLY goes to roads and supporting infrastructure as per the federal trust. State gas tax goes to other things, but again there is that state/federal trap. You can't blame the federal government for the actions of the state that have recognized sovereignty from the federal government in a specific area.

I've read it three times not. It MENTIONS the federal bill but almost as a foot note. The article talks about how the states are approaching it with some detail and then goes "oh by the way this federal measure exists". I'd call it a foot note but it's not even that. Asking for more information or pushing others to think about the action taken before condemning is not "burying one's head in the sand", it's actually the opposite. I did this with the last administration, it's not asking too much to ask you to do it with the current one. You accuse people of not wanting to make "their boy" look bad but you don't gather any information and you seem to be triggered by even the slightest measure that calls for more information. In other words, rather than read and understand any measures going through, you accuse people of something you do yourself. I mean I spelled it out pretty clear in my examples. Lots of taxes are collected upstream from the end consumer at the supplier or manufacturer before the end user is even identified, and many get built into the cost the end user pays but isn't a direct tax on the end user. Each model has it's own efficiencies and deficiencies and it's important to understand those because they have different results on you and me. Gas guzzler style taxes are inefficient because they tax use that hasn't occurred yet and are often placed on what we call "toy" vehicles. If you don't drive your toy car 10k miles per year, then you are not getting full utility out of the tax you paid. Additionally the tax is actually paid by the manufacturer and is not required to be paid by the customer - the dealer makes it seem like you gave to pay it but you can negotiate it out of the purchase price, if the opportunity presents itself. A fed tax on fuel we already have for gas and diesel but not for EV. If they tax EV "fuel" that is a tax on power generated by the utility. The utility could collect it directly from the consumer and remit it to the .gov, but that's a pretty equitable tax that is more about closing a loophole of EV's than a "new tax". Did you miss the part where I said it is the least likely scenario to happen? I'll add more, VMT in general is pretty unpopular (about 21% support across the public) but this idea is so unpopular none of the parties want to touch it in congress, and this issue is being discussed at length by the Transportation and Infrastructure committee.

By the way - here is why the "how" matters: - if the federal VMT is calculated by how many kWs are used to charge an EV, then this is a tax that closing a loophole/incentive/tax dodge that electric vehicles have that allows them to use the roads and not pay for them since they are not using any gasoline. It wouldn't affect any ICE owners, cost of collection would be low because it is collecting from a central point (the power utility), and net effect is the same as if an individual owned two ICE cars or one ICE and one EV. I think the overwhelming majority of people could get behind this. - If the VMT is calculated by setting up federal tolls on federally sponsored highways, this is less ideal, costly, and stifles all sorts of other things like interstate commerce. I don't know that many would support this at all, but at least it would draw a direct connection between use of the road and paying for the upkeep. - If the VMT is calculated by taxing the individual owner, well the federal government would have to develop a mileage tracking system or leverage an existing state level one. It would affect ICE and EV owners alike and would be in effect a new tax. It would very costly, and it would double tax ICE owners. This is what a lot of conservatives/libertarians assume/fear, but also one of the lesser likely scenarios. I don't think many Americans would support this at all. Either way, the federal tax we are talking about ONLY goes to road and highway repair and maintenance since the highway trust funds can only be used for that. It's a direct tax on vehicles to pay for the roads they use. Only the most dipshit extremists think this is an unnecessary tax arrangement.

You fire off lot of half baked uninformed, easily debunked opinions because....I guess you feel that having strong opinion is more valuable than having an accurately informed one? One only has to go a few pages back in this thread to literally see where you admit to not having read about an issue but still had a pretty strong opinion on it. I mean if you are going for the old man shouting at clouds vibe, bravo - you nailed it. How will we be taxed? The article you posted talked about it at the state level, but how is vmt going to work at the federal level? I don't think anybody knows that at the moment. doesn't stop you from shouting at Biden that he's broken his promise, even when you don't know if the VMT is going to be collected from the vehicle owner. The federal government doesn't actually collect federal gas taxes from the customer - it's an excise tax on the manufacturer of gasoline per gallon, that gets passed through via price because that's how capitalism works. A vmt isn't like a fuel tax - and the federal gov isn't setup to collect from individuals in the same way, so how is it going to work? don't you think you want to know that? I don't think this part was in question. The part in question was how The president of the US was responsible for state programs that the states enacted independently and have been working on since the last administration? I get it, you are old and to you Biden is the boogey man responsible for everything bad now that happens from vmt's to any flat tires you may get in the future. Is "thanks Biden" the new "thanks Obama"?

I feel like that is directed at me so I'll field this one from Otis in Troll mode. I mean Mace has made comments in the past that he sees the whole thing as just one big entity and not many entities working at different levels so it's hardly a "snap" judgement. Also, I did see the mention of the federal highway trust and a federal program to collect mileage tax, but it was almost a throwaway comment with no details as to how it would work or be collected. All of Mace's comments were directed at the state programs and how they would work which is what was discussed in detail. I guess if you really were trying to meet Mace's crazy ramblings more than halfway you could say it's open to interpretation, no slight intended to greg who is going out of his way to have a conversation with Mace who by his own demonstration fires off uninformed snap judgements like farts after dinner. Since we are talking about federal mileage taxes - it is interesting as to how they would work. Are they like a gas guzzler tax where it's a flat rate assessed based on expected amount driven? The Federal government has no current registration or mileage reporting scheme so to build one on top of the one the states already have seems like a silly waste. Would they just assess the tax against the state and leave it to the state to collect it on their behalf? From my perspective the federal gov't needs a commodity that gets used based on mileage to tax (like gasoline) and may look to the power industry, but that won't yield significant revenues. I'm generally curious as to how this is going to work in practice.

Holy Shit dude, do you not know the difference between federal and state governments? Like aren't you the separation of powers and smaller government guy?

wait...street racing is illegal? how come nobody told me?

I did not know a T/A 392 WIDEBODY was a thing. I need this in my life now. To be honest, I'm just happy to see a 1959 caddy anywhere these days. Used to see them at tons of car shows and in the wild in the 1980's and 90's but they have all seemed to disappear now.

oh, there is plenty wrong with that....do you want to have that conversation? also, what if I don't want to?

No you didn't but I appreciate you valuing my opinion enough that you want me to respond. Just wish you didn't feel like you have to make an effort to "trigger" people through misinformation to have a dialog. See this is what I mean about libertarians being bad at history. We tried that for about a hundred years in this country and for several thousand in the old countries, and you know what it led to? lots of death, exploitations of the vulnerable, slavery, debtors prisons, and class warfare to name a few. Did you think the french revolution or the English and American Civil Wars came out of nowhere? I literally have no idea what you are trying to say here. None. Also why is it "evil"? So the funny thing is what's better for society as a whole and what's better for an individual are not always aligned. It takes a case by case evaluation, and even then the idea of peace among the majority doesn't always mean peace for everyone. Just because you do not "believe" that social programs work doesn't mean they don't (usually they do). There is an education and access to information deficit that needs to be addressed before we can begin to work on the whole "why should I be forced to pay taxes to pay for "x" thing". Every law in this country is written in someone's blood, but most have opinions about why it exists at all rather than taking the time to figure out whose blood it is and why it was spilled.

Don't feel bad, lots of people think dumb stuff. :gabe:

Not BLUE cities, ALL cities. Oh and it's so much worse than that. Stop making uniform racisim into a one sided attack against a political party when it's really a uniform problem across all political party lines, it makes you look less smart than you are.

I'm guessing most people with an all cash side hustle don't put that money into the bank

It is not a rebadged sunbird, and Pontiac did not make a Grand Am convertible. It looks like a professional conversion. If it was done by a pro shop, they would have added chassis reinforcements. The top turtle deck and the door caps lead me to believe this was a pro conversion and not some amateur in his backyard.

It's stick too, 5 speed. My guess is that it is an ASC conversion done for a customer. ACS was GM's convertible supplier and known for doing the convertible tops on the pontiac Sunbird as well as the Thrid Gen camaro/firebird (also they did the convertible for the fox platform and built the ASC Mclaren capri/mustang), and all the sunroofs for GM cars. Because they were a GM supplier, custom convertible jobs could be ordered through GM dealerships on new cars.

No S-10 based anything is "fun" stock. At all. I had a 1995 S10 Blazer when new (teal over gray) and it was not "fun". A buddy had a typhoon and that was fun but it was also rare and even back in the 90's those cars were stupid expensive. But..... Covid has pretty much ruined the car market at this point. Anything that used to be cheap "fun" is carrying pretty much a $2-5K penalty on it for being fun. So the next "fun" enthusiast cars are going to have to come out of the dogshit cars that are still left. and you know what's dogshit but has tons of potential? S-series and esp a bravada. I just did a quickie FB marketplace search and I found a clean running 1996 bravada for $1500 and a 1997 for $1800. For that price I get a chassis that has all the S-series aftermarket support including off the shelf v8 motor mounts, a Trans, transfer case, and diffs that can take a V8 swap, and a chassis that is lowering springs, shocks, and sway bars away from SY/TY handling (which is admittedly not great but better than a lot of stuff). Lots of Potential. using a budget junkyard/CL/FB marketplace used parts approach I could probably build an AWD, Stick, 4 door family hauler that makes V8 sounds for the $6K budget. The cheapest v8 swapped S-series I could find was a rusty $3000 automatic pickup with a junkyard carbed 350 in it, and most are between $5K and $10K. Even the 2wd blazers from the same era are more money for a base truck. Just on my back of the napkin math this seems like a viable option. Desperate times call for some out of the box thinking to get value in the "fun car" market. the more I think about it, the more I realize - If Clay still has the Harbor Freight Chevy Pickup, he should just manual and LS swap that and presto! fun "car". He's already lowered it and it has rims and tires. All S10 "extremes" are 2wd and most of them are 4cyl autos. they also used drop spindles instead of shorter springs to lower the front which is why you can't make them 4/all wheel drive. The same AWD setup in the Sy/Ty came in the 4.3 astrovan, the olds bravado, and one year (1995) as an option on the blazer. All other S-series were 4x4 with a manual transfer case or 2wd. So it's not just the turbo, it's the AWD as well. There are cars that are out of the box fun, and there are cars that you make fun. An S-series is def a car you make fun the old fashioned way - with a V8 chevy swap. Is it the same as a 350Z? nope on a rope, but even 350z's took such a jump in price i struggle to see the value of them.

because bravadas are just Syclone/Typhoons without the turbos and have nicer interiors. Change my mind.

If you buy an Olds Bravada, they come AWD to begin with with the BW4472 transfer case. This is a mechanical symmetrical AWD (like an Audi Torsen Quattro or an old Subaru box but with a 35/65 f/r bias) that can take a pretty fair amount of HP and was also used in the Sy/Ty cars. They can take a Chevy NV3500 5 speed manual trans out of a 4.3 S10 or a 1500 Silverado/Sierra. the NV3500 will take 350 ft/lbs and the NV3550HD in the fullsize will take slightly more. Clay, What's your take on Kit Cars? I saw a running, decent shape Bradley GT2 recently for $4500. Those are VW beetle chassis based, with gull wing doors, and they look like a real 70's sports car (unlike the first Bradley GT). VW aftermarket is huge and so cheap it's almost silly. It's like most of the good stuff of 4cyl porsche ownership without all the bad stuff. https://www.mecum.com/lots/DN0716-249202/1978-bradley-gt-ii/