I was talking about trucks of today. The Tundra I referred to is a 2003 model.
It seems to me that you are the one trying to refer to older model trucks versus the newer trucks. You are trying to compare the new Tundra to a pre-1997 ("before they were round") F150, Silverado, etc. That is lame. You are saying that the Tundra should be considered viable competition to the trucks of today because it has similar power numbers to trucks made almost 10 years ago - but it wasn't made 10 years ago. Standards change, and it's well below the current standards. You cannot possibly tell someone to consider the Tundra as competition to today’s trucks.
When I look at what each manufacturer is producing for 2004, I see the Tundra as more competition for the Ranger than I see it as competition for the F150. The 2004 F150 kicks the ever living fuck out of the Tundra. All of the big three full size truck offerings beat the snot out of the Tundra, hands down. As someone here who has driven and has first hand towing experience with new Ford, Dodge, Chevy, and Toyota trucks - the Toyota is marginal at best.
I also find it funny that you are speaking of Nissan's entry into the full size truck market and "going too far" with respect to quality in a derogatory light. Since when is offering a badass truck that is full of features, is powerful, sells at a competitive price, and is succeeding wildly, a bad thing? Oh, it's only a bad thing when you like Toyotas and Toyota is getting the snot beat out of it by the big three and a newcomer, Nissan, who has zero experience in the full size truck market.
I drove the Titan in April when I was searching for a new truck; I was flat out floored at the quality of the truck. It was very, very nice and well engineered. I tow with a regular full size truck more than most people here, and I love my 250 and I'm glad that I bought it. But I can tell you, if Nissan brings a 3/4 or 1 ton truck to market - Ford better watch out. All of the big three had better watch out. I'm a die hard Ford truck guy, but I will seriously consider a 3/4 or 1 ton Nissan truck in a year or two when it's time to upgrade again.
Unfortunately, every experience I have seen with the Toyota Tundra leaves me wondering why they entered the "full size" truck market at all. Guess those Ranger people better watch out!