TTQ B4U

six and one half really, you get your savings each month, we get ours in a lump in the spring time.

Just saying that it allows me that flexibility. I don't fund the account from my employer pre-tax as we have so much money in ours already. We deposit the money into it quarterly and claim it on our taxes in the spring. We vary the amounts we put in monthly depending on our needs.

That makes me even more loving of the benny's I get. Seriously. After 4k I don't pay anything and zero premium allows me to put $200-$500mo on in my HSA. To me it's a good investment account as one day I will be old and spending 2x that per month on meds I'm sure. :fuuuu:

I agree on this point. I for one am very concious of this in terms of my kids. I don't love the atmosphere where my kids are at in Dublin as the school isn't brand new, but by son loves it and thinks it's "a pretty cool place" That's all that matters to me...he likes going there. I'm the same way with my office.

I think they meant dress casual. My definitions are as follows: Business Dress - Suite Jacket and Tie Business Casual - Dockers and button down or golf shirt Dress Casual - Dress Jeans/Dockers, button down or silk T, Sport Coat Casual - Clean Casual Clothes, no sweat shirts or t shirts with writing

My benefits don't suck. Their great. I chose the HSA plan, have Zero Premium each month, Max out of pocket is $4k per year for the family and my employer puts in the first $2,000 January 1. I've had this type of plan for nearly 10 years and my HSA has enough in there to buy a very nice Luxery car, thus I'm not at all worried about getting sick or injured. Even our traditional benefits are excellent. However, they are moving to 20% of the premium for employees on this plan. For my familiy that would mean $275mo. No thanks. I'll stick with my HSA and put my money in my pocket for my own health plan vs flushing it away on managing the risk each year. SB5 did cap health insurance costs at that 15 percent, which IMO is generous. It eliminates the bullshit practice pension pick-up's that agencies were touting as their way of saving money. Sure it saved them money vs giving someone an increase in salary, but then it sticks the taxpayers with paying more of the employees health care and pension plans. Bullshit, they should pay into that and if they want a raise, earn it. Sure you're going to hear different percentages from different employees. The amount they pay for health benefits varies from City, to county to township levels and again for schools. End longevity bonuses and step-plan raises. This isn't the 1950's and unions are most certainly over rated today.

Gun is optional. http://images.art.com/images/products/large/10102000/10102415.jpg It's Miami. Anything from a business casual to honestly, a nice pair of dress jeans, button down dress shirt, nice shoes and a jacket that you can peal off when needed. Is this a business or personal meeting ?

http://www.gifbin.com/bin/092010/1284123330_chris-hansen-gif.gif

dude certainly knows his shit. :fuckyeah:

that's iFags not IFags. Lower case i man. Get it right already.

^^^ THIS Because YES, it needs read twice.

^^^ RymerC is spot on. Gimme, Gimme, Gimme is what I'm hearing from the public sector. They seem to think their entitled to raises and can hold the public they serve hostage when they don't get their way. Bullshit. Time to end that way of thinking and hold people accountable.

Your original point was there were no collective bargening for wages and that the final decision would be up the employers. My point is that SO WHAT...that's how it is in the private sector and it works just fine. I don't have a "collective bargaining" group to help me go get more money from my employer. That is up to the EMPLOYEE to justify and their employer to make the final decision. How is that unfair or not inline with the rest of the America? Why should public sector jobs be any different? What makes them so special? If the public sector had measurable Key Job Accountability points that were worth a shit that agreement and clarity would exist. The employee would know exactly what they were measured on to be considered for a raise. However, just as with private sector work, there are no guarantees. That's life man. Put on some big boy pants and deal with it. We can absolutely compare the two. The duties of the job don't matter one bit. Why would they? You pretty much did say that. You said, "If fire fighters want a 3% raise, and their city wants 0%. What do you think the city, as the final say, is going to choose? Not so much bargaining." So I'm asking that if your saying the above is unfair or out of line to back it up. Your post is implying you support the public sector to be entitled to a 3% raise if they want it and I'm asking you to show me how they are reviewed and justify it. You can't and neither can they....not sufficiently anyway. They have all the right in world to bargin for more money. How about they stop using the word BARGIN and replace it with JUSTIFY more money. They won't open that can of worms because then they will have to actually work and prove themselves. Instead they want to bitch but not be accountable. Time to end that shit. What's bullshit about taking away a teachers right to strike? Why the fuck would I want to approve giving them the right to bitch about paying more into their benefits or retirements? Yeah, my EXPECTATION is that public service NEEDS to pay into both to the same level as the private sector. If they don't like it, then quit their job and go elsewhere. That's my option. Last I check my job is employment at will. I see no reason they should be any different. They've done a PISS POOR job of showing me or the rest of the world any good reason either. Outside their own self serving ones. and that's not necessary any longer either. I say fuck unions, they aren't needed and I side with companies who are out to break them. When I was at Panasonic, it was cheaper for them to shut down the entire Building #1 in NJ and move into a brand new one in Elgin, IL than it was to keep the 3,000+ union workers in NJ in their current situation. That's fucked up when it's cheaper to shut down and move than to keep what is in place. So they did. All 3,000 people were offered their jobs but they had to move on their own dime to keep it. Guess how many of those "hard working" people did? Less than 100. Good!

Me too. However, I'd likely get bad press for having "I'm with stupid" stickers all over my car, office and items brought to meetings. The system is so filled with corruption and stupid shits, it's going to take some seriously strong medication and therapy to get someone through it all.

So you're saying there isn't a line to get into the Police or Fire Acadamy ? New news to me. Last I heard there were limited openings and as expected, they take the most fit/qualified. I don't see where either needs to leverage better salaries or benefits to attract candidates. I think there's plenty of demand and limited supply. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Is that any different than the private sector world? Wasn't the pay freeze a choice the unions voted on in place of other potential savings options? So then by definition if public employees are not getting automatic raises the passing of the bill would have no impact on them? What's the rub then? I'd love to hear more about the review process for various public sector jobs. Start with schools if you wish. I agree, but where alternatives presented? What were the details of those alternatives? That would be a great current discussion as we're back to square one. So are you saying the public's own personal experience with "Bad teachers" was the center of this bil or why it was created or even how people voted? That's rhetorical as I'm sure your statement was.

Me too. Last I checked, there's only 100 percentage points in my paycheck and I think the public sector is taking more than enough of them and it's time they get their house in order. I'm tired of working my ass off to build a nice life for me and my family and providing everyone around me with handouts to mismanage.

Ray, but think of all the JOBS that the building of that school created :fuuuu:

Here are some questions for you. So how is that any different than the private sector? How is that any more unfair than where I work in the private sector? What makes public sector employees ENTITLED to a raise? What are the criteria being used to justify their raise? So if most public employees are already paying MORE than the minimum 15% that was being asked for, then what's the problem with raising the bar to a level that's already below the norm? I'm confused

I do realize that. However, just like the school system, the Police and Firefighters need to fight for that hand in hand with the people by voting out the dip shits above them that don't give them the tools they need to do their job. Stop PROTECTING them with tenure and guaranteed job security. Stop REWARDING Them with retirement plans, pay raises and everything else. STOP allowing the less than effective superiors to have an army of yes-men and yes-women fight their battles and continue to suck more money into a broken system. What are the unions doing to change anything? Did they come to the table with a counter offer that broke that section out? Did they put a plan in place to make that happen? Did they build guidelines and expectations and any accountability into their counter offer? How come I've not heard about any of that? In my job as a Sales Director, I'm judged on my actions. If I don't LISTEN to my people, make good JUDGEMENTS on providing them what they need to do their job, and influence MEANINGFUL CHAGNE, then I'm not performaing to my Key Job Accountability and can be fired. Their bosses then should be held accountable...and that trend needs to continue up the food chain. Fighting to keep the system AS IS - IS NOT the solution. It's not going to be easy, but then I absolutely believe these changes are necessary and the public would rally to support them even more if they supported themselves first and LEAD THE CHARGE. In terms of pay, the last I check, public service was still a choice. I could make a lot more than I do at my current job too, but just like all the public sector employees out there, I made my decision on more than just money. What's not fair about that? For the record, I work for a not for profit company that is not in the public sector.

How did he say it affected him? Basically, it took public service workers and told them that they would only be allowed to colectively bargin for wages. That's fine, but it told them to shove it in terms of continuing to expect not to contribute towards their own health insurance and pensions. (which honestly needs changed thus why I supported it) It also told them to shove it in terms of going on strike if they didn't get their way on Health Insurance and Pensions. (again, I support that) The private sector is moving towards employees paying 25% of their healthcare premiums. Ohio Issue 2 simply sets the minimum employee health insurance contribution at 15 percent. Sweet deal still don't ya think? Yet so many seem to have a sense of entitlement that it wasn't good enough for them. Pound that shit. The 10 percent minimum contribution to individual retirement plans helps the guaranteed pension affordable for Ohio taxpayers. The taxpayers...you know the ones public service jobs support. Again, the bill still allowed for Unions to negotiate upon the behalf of employees for working conditions and wages. IMO if they go on strike because they want the rest of us to pay their healthcare and retirement, then replace their asses. Times are different and they need to change too. The days of putting in 20 years and collecting a pension then going out and double dipping need to end. IMO if a cop puts in 20yrs and retires, that's fine, but they shouldn't get their money until age 60-67 like the rest of us. Until then, retire and go get another job if they wish. Way too much of our tax dollars are spent taking care of public servants that are retired. Fuck that. What really ticks me off is just like back when Coleman was lobbying for the .5% income tax increase and used FUD about the impact of not doing so would have on public safety, is the same bullshit being thrown around by firefighters and the same group on this bill. " it will jeopardize the safety of residents during emergencies. " Bullshit......the city and the officials won't let that happen and neither will the people. If Coleman wanted to threaten to cut cops, then we should have pushed him to do that. I guarantee if he did, his dumb ass wouldn't have won yesterday. THAT's why he supported the increase. To get people to "buy into" the bullshit, pay the broken system more money out of fear and to get his ass elected again. SELF SERVING. Columbus is filled with stupid voters. So then next time anyone bitches about these issues, thank those that voted for continuing the same old broken system, who fell for the bullshit Coleman is selling, who bought into the FUD that get's rumored to occur and helped the system continue to serve themselves and help no one. I hope their all happy coughing up more of their hard earned income for nothing and not impacting any meaningful change. Off my soap box.

No. Ford is only invested to the tune of 13% or so. Back when they were restructuring, Ford cleaned up things and had Mazda buy back some shares.

I'm with you on being biased towards teachers and the role they play in shaping our future. I also agree that tax related issues are fucked up and that the elected officials play that card way to much with the intention of their own gain. Unfortunately until the underlying issues are fixed, and it will take the teachers supporting the people in this effort. If they continue to let the officials and "system" to use them to fight the same old fight they will continue to get the same results and not win any further support. IMO, whoever is "leading their cause" is doing a poor job and has no clue on how to win additional support and affect meaningful change. Teachers need to stand up and help fight for a solution, not continue to support Levy's and taxes that feed a broken system. In tough times, parents need to just accept that extra curricular activities like sports are going to be on a pay to play basis. Congress needs to fix the double dipping that's going on and shift funding to education vs other bullshit programs. The people need the teachers behind that cause. Again, congress and others aren't going to do anything if they see the teachers are continuing to lobby for more money on their behalf. If the teachers and their union are that strong and influential, then let's see them focus efforts on doing something along those lines.

On that curve you can take it considerably faster without issue. Just watch for the undulation in the fast lane going north. That's what I hear anyway. :whistle:

* No New Taxes * Time for the various state agencies to fix their shit the right way and time to stop asking for more of our hard earned money to simply to flush down with the rest of the mismanaged funds.