greg1647545532

double post. Thread's getting too long?

Tractor quoted a 400 word post and mis-stated the position I laid out it in. If you're curious about my "official" position (whatever that means, the position of my office?) then you can re-read the 400 word post. Then again, Tractor managed to misunderstand it so many it just wasn't long enough. Hyuck hyuck hyuck.

That is not the entire point I made, so I'm not sure how to respond to this. It is not my position that "both sides are broken."

In less substantiated news, WH aides couldn't understand Trump's refusal to call in the national guard. Pence had to ask the acting SECDEF to invoke the guard himself. Known liar Kayleigh McKeighneighneigh then lyingly lied that it actually WAS Trump who called in the national guard, a statement directly contradicted by the acting SECDEF himself.

Barr is just saying that because he's been brainwashed by the lamestream media taking things out of context. /s Let's just let Barr's statement speak here: This is the attorney general who resigned because he couldn't in good conscious continue to serve a president who pushed false narratives about election fraud. Elaine Chao is out, Mick Mulvaney is out, many other senior advisors and aides are out, unable to continue to serve a president who "orchestrated a mob to pressure congress." For the time being, many other cabinet officials are staying, fearing what would happen in their absence. Republican congressman Adam Kinzinger calls for a 25th amendment removal of the president. "All indications are that the president has become unmoored, not just from his duty or even his oath, but from reality itself."

They probably didn't say they were unsure because they weren't unsure. I watched a couple hours of grainy livestreamed video and I can tell you that based on that, I'm not unsure of who was causing the violence.

I saw a report of 52 arrests and 3 people who died from ambiguously stated "medical emergencies". It did turn violent. It's probably a similar story to the violence following BLM protests this summer. I'm sure the vast majority of Trump supporters obeyed the curfew put in place by the DC mayor, and so all that were left after sundown where the rabble rousers looking for trouble. Just like the vast majority of BLM protesters went home after their planned protests ended and the folks who stuck around were the rabble rousers looking to fight with police and/or the counter protesters. One key difference in the videos I saw is how flabbergasted the Trumpers were that the police were against them. You can hear so many calls of "traitors" and "we're on your side" and whatnot on these videos, before the cops move in and blows are exchanged. If nothing else, they genuinely believe their own delusions.

For the most part there was no violence within the capital itself, except of course for the woman who was shot in the neck and died. I listened to all of the senate speeches when they reconvened at 8, and I don't have a list in front of me of who said what, but most of the Republicans didn't mince words. McConnell called it an insurrection, almost all of them referred to it as violence. We can quibble on whether or not storming the US Capital and forcing the evacuation of everyone inside is violence in and of itself -- I'd agree that there was much more a threat of violence than actual violence -- but it also seems apparent that everyone inside, from both parties, considered it a violent act. That said, when I myself was talking about violence, I was talking about what happened after the sun went down, on the streets of DC, as Proud Boys and Trump supporters clashed with the DC police. I saw lots of violence in those videos.

It is factually inaccurate that I have demanded apologies from everyone in this thread. You lie like it's nothing. All I've asked for is for some of you to reflect, which of course you're free to ignore. It's true that Trump has denounced violence and white supremacy. It's also factually true that he told his supporters to march down to the US Capital and stop the democrats from stealing the election. Which they did and tried to do. I mean, holy shit, that's something that happened. And yet all we can seem to talk about is liberal hypocrisy.

Joe Biden condemns antifa and violence at protests. Pelosi condemns violent actions of antifa protestors. Harris condemns violence. I can provide more links from lots and lots of major democratic politicians denouncing the violence. How many do you want, or are you capable of finding them yourself? You are factually incorrect about their being "democrat/liberal silence" about the violence. You are free to have your own opinions, but not your own facts. And I owe nobody an apology for your made up accusations.

I will happily take personal responsibility as soon as you can tell me what personal actions I took that contributed to that $1 billion in damage. Did I vote for politicians who condoned that violence? Did I vote for politicians that spread lies that contributed to the unrest? Did I contribute money or time to those causes? Please, tell me what I did.

Some thoughts -- First, let me correct the record by saying that I have never denied the existence of violence from protestors, mobs, or terrorists associated with the "left wing" of US politics. I have never objected to calling terrorists by that adjective. I have never been blind to the realities of the anti-police sentiment that is a natural consequence of the BLM movement. I have been accused of all of those things in this very thread, without evidence, so I want to set the record straight. What I want to say is that some of us have been very concerned about Donald Trump's demagoguery, lies, and sowing of mistrust since he came onto the political stage. For that concern we've been called libtards, soyboys, cucks, NPCs. We've been accused of simply having a "bias" against conservatives, of living in an echo chamber, of using knee-jerk "orange man bad" criticisms of the president rather than having legitimate concerns. For months now, Trump has sowed doubt about the integrity of our elections. He has invented lie after lie after lie about voter fraud which doesn't appear to exist. He has attacked the basic core of our democratic process for his own personal egotistical gain. Some of you seemed convinced that Trump supporters were incapable of the sort of violence that we saw yesterday. You seemed convinced that the windows boarded up on November 3rd were for leftist violence, because the right doesn't do that sort of thing. As you watched the violence unfold in DC last night, I hope you realized that you were wrong. And now, with the insurrection in the US Capital yesterday, the inevitable repercussions of Trump's attack on democracy have finally materialized. Any of you who thought this wouldn't happen were wrong. And in a moment that should be a cause for great reflection, what do we get in this thread? "Both sides" tu quoques and baseless accusations that this is really Antifa in disguise. Come on. It's time for those who espouse "personal responsibility" take some personal responsibility for either voting for, or defending with your words, this president. Trump is a horrible leader who has been horrible for this country. He is the unambiguous cause of this insurrection attempt. He is a liar, he is a criminal. And some of you voted for 4 more years of this. January 20th can't come soon enough.

Hey, you want to be factually accurate in your rebuttals, don't you? Just trying to help.

Ohio statehouse is now federal property. Facts.

- Former Republican presidential nominee Mitt Romney

Screenshots of tweets of people I can barely recognize? Is this the sort of tripe you base your worldview on? Be better than that.

Lot's of things are possible. So what? There's no evidence of it. What are you trying to accomplish right now?

"Terrorism" is one of the definitions still hammered into my head from basic training, which began "The use of violence or the threat of violence..." The UN General Assembly defines it as: Is storming the capital building criminal? Check. Was it intended to provoke fear? Well you said it was scary. For political purposes? You betcha. If it looks like a duck and it quacks... eta: It was the FBI definition of terrorism in 2002 -- "The use of violence or the threat of violence in furtherance of a political or social agenda". Damn that brainwashing really sticks.

See?

Same, but at this point I'm used to being accused of saying things I never said, so whatever.

Mace is right, the important thing right now isn't that insurrectionists have taken over the US Capital building for the first time in any of our lives, it's that we don't hurt anyone's feelings by using the wrong adjectives. Fucking ridiculous.

Trump supporting terrorists have broached the Capital building and caused the senate to be evacuated. The house chamber is barricaded, cops inside with weapons drawn. Tear gas has been deployed, DC has instituted a curfew, and the national guard may have been called in. Trump meekly tweets out a plea to be peaceful, after egging this shit on for months, up to and including at his rally this morning. Welcome to 2021, America.

Oh come off it. You accused Biden of lying, you accused me of not wanting to hold Biden accountable. Now, what, "it's just a prank, bro. I know he wasn't really lying." Why don't you apologize for accusing me of lacking character when you knew damn well there was no "holding Biden accountable" angle to that story.

That's a lie.

Sounds like you're calling Trump a liar while at the same time getting upset that other people are calling Trump a liar. You make no goddamn sense my man.