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There's an episode of the Simpsons where Homer sees an ad for clown college. He scoffs at the idea but it sticks in his brain, coming up over, and over, until finally he abruptly stands up at the dinner table and says, "That's it! You people have stood in my way long enough. I'm going to clown college!" People claim, "If someone really wants to get a gun, they'll find a way to get a gun," which is true on a superficial level. It's like, if kids really want to smoke, they'll find a way to get cigarettes, which is also true. But when I was 18 I didn't have some intense desire to start smoking. I had lots of friends who smoked, and obviously smoking was everywhere, even in the late 90s, so I thought about it a lot, but it's not like I did it to fit in, or be a part of the cool kids. I picked up cigarettes because literally one day it occurred to me that I could just walk into a store and buy a pack of cigarettes, and nobody could stop me. They were just right there, the forbidden fruit, at every store I went to, and all I had to do was shell out $3. So I did, and I spent a few years as a semi-casual smoker until they were banned indoors everywhere I went and I lost interest. If I were 18 again I doubt I'd pick up smoking, because at least where I am, cigarettes aren't a staple of every meal and every night out. I just don't think about cigarettes anymore. Unlike you, I don't think there's anything unique to American culture that makes us more violent. I don't think guns make people evil, whatever that means. I do think that guns, like cigarettes to me in 1998, are everywhere. I think a lot of people, present company likely included, probably have a similar thought in their late teens and early 20s. "I could just go out right now and buy a gun. I could totally just do it, and nobody could stop me. I have a few hundred bucks I could spare, and then I'd have a gun, and it'd be awesome." And so they do. And then, "I could even go out and buy a motherfucking AR-15, and then I'd have that too. And, I mean, it's goddamn AR-15, it's pretty badass." I don't think there are millions of Americans who would do anything to get their hands on a gun, I think there's a lot of people who have them because their parents have them, or because their friends talk about them all the time, or they just like Stallone movies. And there's a certain appeal, the forbidden fruit, the two 45s like John Woo, or the AR-15 like GI Joe. Unrelated to the above, I think there's young boys or young men who are depressed, or angry, or both. I think, like a lot of suicidal ideations, they start thinking about school shootings because it's part of our culture. Some kids plan their suicides to get back at their parents. It's not a stretch that some would plan their suicides to get back at their peers. And the pieces just need to be nearby to make it all start to fall into place. "I could get the shotgun from dad's closet, and the .38 from his drawer. I could totally do that, and nobody could stop me. I could just do it and go out in a blaze of glory." So yeah, I honestly think the only difference between the US and the rest of the world is that when American kids go postal, there's often guns nearby that they can incorporate into their plans, and in the rest of the world, they come up with some other, less notable plan that involves killing fewer people (or none at all). When I was a kid growing up in the suburbs, there weren't any more or any fewer gun restrictions than there are now. There weren't any more or any fewer violent or suicidal people (actually, probably more of both). The only difference is that none of us thought about guns. People in rural America didn't think about guns because guns were just a tool for hunting. People in the suburbs didn't think about guns, because none of us had guns. Didn't need 'em. People didn't shoot up schools for the same reason people don't pick up smoking now -- because it just wasn't a thing that we saw every day, and it wasn't a thing that anyone could start picturing themselves doing. That's my 2 cents.

I didn't want to clutter up the OP with requirements, but since we're deep into page 2 now, I'll cop to really not being a fan of classic cars. My first car was an 85 Crown Vic and it turned me off of boats forever. Whatever I get I'd at least want to be able to take to drill out in Dayton, and I don't see the appeal of recirculating ball steering or bench seats. Not that I'm knocking what everyone else finds beautiful I know big girls need love too.

Is that what other countries do better than us?

It's a deterrent, if you think it's anything more than that you're fooling yourself. No one? You make it sound so simple, why isn't anyone trying it? Maybe in a red state where conservatives can do what they want? Like Texas, maybe. For fucks sake, what is it with you people? Go read upthread where I already answered this question. eta: Also, no, I hate rotaries. (jokes and jokes and jokes)

I don't understand the question. People in this thread are proposing that school shootings are caused by mental illness, bullying, and/or bad parenting. Are you suggesting that there's another element involved? Something about the nature of the way Americans act? Or are you suggesting that there something unique to the way Americans act that causes mental illness, bullying, or bad parenting? In other words, I can say, "Sure, people are people wherever you go," or I can say, "Of course not, every country has a unique culture," but what are you getting at? What cultural difference causes Americans to shoot up schools?

I keep looking at this, I know it's dumb but....

Anyway, I can certainly see your point of hoping we can solve... all mental health issues? Bullying? Bad parenting? That just seems like a huge ask, and something that the rest of the world probably didn't have to do in order to "solve" school shootings.

You sincerely thought a 38 year old software developer had a solution to school shootings? I'm flattered at your opinion of me.

What a silly question. I don't proclaim to have a "solution" to school shootings. I do, however, think that fewer guns in circulation would mean fewer abused guns, which would mean fewer dead children. What, if anything, gun owners could do on their own to make this idyllic reality possible is an exercise I'll leave up to you.

No, I would not support that.

I have 3 wonderful kids and 0 delusions that they are the way they are solely because of my parenting skills. I'm lucky that they were born 100% happy and healthy, with no physical or mental issues (yet). I have friends with challenging kids, and it can't be the parenting because it's only 1 out of 3 or 1 out of 4. Some kids are easier than others, and once we factor in mental illness, all bets on parenting are off. After all, I'm told that all school shooters are ipso facto mentally ill. Can attentive parenting cure mental illness? Of course not. And it's ridiculous to expect a 100% success rate on parents even identifying mental illness before it's too late, given the subtle cues of certain illnesses and the fact that many of them don't manifest themselves until the kids are teenagers anyway. So yes, I'm a parent, but I'd like to think I'm a humble one. Can I say with 100% confidence that none of my kids will never shoot someone? I don't think so. Can I say with 100% confidence that they won't shoot someone with a gun that I keep in the house? Absolutely.

You're either a helicopter parent who never leaves the house and never lets teenagers out of your sight, or kids can pull this off. I don't think leaving the house for a couple of hours while your teenager is home alone is a parenting fail.

Yeah, I was watching some videos of them last night, the "automatic" shifts are sooooo slow. I'm guessing it'd be something to avoid anyway for maintenance reasons, but the performance just looks awful.

Not for nothing, but fingerprint scanners are garbage. of a whole bunch of gun safes sucking, with fingerprint scanners towards the end. You can lift prints with scotch tape and super glue and load the results into photoshop to do whatever you want with, including making casts. Certainly within the realm of possibility for a bored teenager with access to youtube.

Scumbag liar. Eric Swalwall does not at all support legislation proposing what you just mentioned. You either know this and are a piece of shit or you don't know it and you're a fucking moron, but I sorted it out in about 15 seconds of reading a goddamn Brietbart article of all things, so go back to yelling at clouds.

Tim's yelling at clouds again

Legalize school shootings then?

Holy shit, you weren't kidding about these Maseratis https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/735396242/overview/ What's the rub? Aside from terrible reliability and crazy expensive maintenance?

School shootings illegal in US. https://www.wsj.com/articles/dont-scream-how-the-texas-school-shooting-unfolded-1526843867

XKs do seem to be a standout by this criteria. Shame there's no manual but there's a pretty good selection under 10k. I would by an F-Type yesterday if they were cheaper.

Fair, I'll choose my words more carefully next time, but you get my point.

I've had a rough couple of weeks with my hobby and started thinking about de-trackifying the Miata and just having a weekend toy that still makes people smile (my kids love showing off the Miata to their friends), but the seats in it aren't great and I figure if could sell it to another track nut in its current state and buy something a bit more comfortable that still has that fun character, it might be a better option. Mostly, though, this is just how I pass the time.

Incorrect. America is an outlier in terms of the number of households with guns, the number of guns per household, the type of guns, and the general attitude towards their usefulness for personal defense. Saying "Canadians have a lot of guns per capita" because a lot of houses have a hunting rifle stashed away somewhere is disingenuous, or "Switzerland has a lot of guns per capita" when most of them are kept in a house without ammunition is disingenuous. America is unique.

What if I want a beautiful car that people will enjoy looking at?

Nobody's going to say that gun owners shouldn't maintain positive control over their weapons, especially if there are kids in the house. But I think there's a difference between a coked-out halfwit leaving a loaded 45 on the coffee table while toddlers crawl around the room, and a "responsible gun owner" whose 16 year old figures out how to pry open a safe. Locking up parents who are grieving over the loss of their son following a mass shooting (assuming the shooter commits suicide or ends up in jail for life, which are about the only 2 possible outcomes) seems cruel if the parents didn't behave unreasonably in regards to gun safety. Consequently, I'm not in favor of draconian laws that punish parents regardless of the circumstances; there's already laws on the books that should handle cases of extremely neglect re: gun safety. That said, 99% of people who think they need guns for home defense, or personal defense, or to protect themselves from the government, or because it's the American thing to do, are delusional, and the NRA pro-gun machine that has convinced a hefty chunk of America that keeping guns in the house is a good thing is something that actually is unique to America and therefore might actually explain why school shootings are a uniquely American thing. I just wish gun owners would reflect on that more instead of blaming video games or cell phones or liberal parenting practices or the media. If people enjoy shooting for sport, the default model should be to keep their guns at a range. But hey, go ahead and bash me and we'll have this talk again in 2 weeks, should be fun.