Moto-Brian

There's also the "Spray Bomb". That's where you think it is going to be solid and then all of a sudden, POW!! It lets loose and sprays the toilet bowl and up under the rim. Messy enough, you need a towel to wipe your back off...

Miguel's been out. They finally got rid of the old guy. Of course, now that he's gone, there's no real seats open for the deserving guys out there! Neil will be on an Erion or Corona bike. I am betting on the Corona machine...

Hey now, I thought I told you to keep that between us. Flounder will get jealous.

Welp, cutting the can is the only option then. Good luck. I like the look with it shorter.

I was taking a poop at the Flying J and right around this hole in the wall, there was the link written right under the comment "Do not pull - just massage". I thought it was weird until Flounder told me that he used the hole to find a LOT of different things he never knew about. I thought it was strange and decided to try typing the address in and see what the deal was. Flounder still likes that hole in the wall way of getting info, but I'll stick with traditional ways of getting info... Why is that hole so special anyways, Floundie? By the way, Brenner (Owndjoo) directed me to the site...

Just an idea... You could also POSSIBLY (I haven't looked at an Arkro CBR system) cut the mid pipe shorter and leave the cannister alone. Would look shorter, but WAY less work than cutting the cannister... Just an idea... I think shorter cans look good on traditional side mounted systems. Under tails? I like it if you can get it from being a lance/harpoon jutting out from under the tail, though...

D&D isn't an exhaust system... Cutting the Akra 3" looks sweet. Of course, I'm with Flounder and the gang and think cutting the whole bike in half would look better... Please tell me you didn't get the "Carbon Fiber 'Hey look! I'm a total squid!!' frame cover" for your 1000 like the guy had that you got the pipe from....

Iron Pony is now selling motorcycles? I don't believe it...

For the CBR600 and 1000, R&D come more from WSBK than AMA. Traditionally, Honda's US racing was an in house deal as of the last couple of years anyways. Not much to gain from it... They used to get info from WSBK much like Yamaha does currently... MotoGP R&D has nothing to do with WSBK or other SS based events or series. Sure, the trickle down of info occurs, but MotoGP isn't a test bed for WSBK...

Show me what you bought and price and we can compare notes. Again, not sure with Arai. However, most have retail standards agreements and if they sell lower, they get in trouble... That's why they are there - customer service should be first above price...

Guys, factory team means they get factory direct support. That means: -HRC US is factory (Neil and Miguel) -Kawasaki USA (Rog and Jamie - Monster has nothing to do with factory support...) -Yosh Suzuki (Spies, Mladin, Hayden) -Graves Yamaha/Yamaha USA (Herrin, DiSalvo, BBoz, EBoz) -Erion Honda (Zemke, Hayes) Support teams get support via the marketing side of things and get direct factory support in the manner of bikes and even certain parts. The factory teams get to share R&D info with the factory, their high end divisions of developement and also get first crack at unique parts, etc. Support teams like: -Corona -Pegram -Jordan -Attack These are the teams from last season as this year is a cluster fuck. The teams have pulled for many reasons. Some due to rules, some due to the economy. I know Suzuki and Yamaha have pulled their Amateur MX Team support and not sure where the others lie. What it boils down to is that marketing is where the budget comes from for the sports support side of things in a company. Usually, when budgets get cut, they hit marketing first. The company I work for slashed marketing money in the terms of sports marketing. It happens and will be a tough year for US racing. The thing you'll probably (and hopefully) see is more factory support teams rising and becoming essentially factory teams. Think Hans Spree, Fuchs, etc... The US market is not as direct to R&D as say MotoGP is. That focus will continue at least through 2009. 2010? Who knows. You might see teams cutting the number of riders, etc... Can't tell at this point...

Again, on CURRENT product, you aren't going to save more than 10% online for AStar, Arai, Sidi, Suomy, and Woodcraft. Again, current... If you do find it, it won't be long as these companies have a Retail Sales Agreement signed and doesn't allow for more than 10% at most if any. I know you can get better deals on Vortex and tires, but again - you need to price at the shop and not their online store for tire prices as they are typically cheaper... RSTaichi? Good luck. Not many shops carry them. Moto Liberty is the only one I know and maybe STG... Also, the point is especially on such minimal items - $400 helmet and saving $40 can be some sort of deal - call it enough towards oil change, etc. I however, feel getting it now is worth $40. I can go and buy it today and ride home and wear it today. You? Gotta wait at least 2-4 days... Maybe that's fine and cool, but again, not typical to find 10% on many items. I know Woodcraft doesn't even allow Ebay sales less than retail... I might be wrong on the Arai thingy. I'll find out tomorrow or Tuesday...

What sign? Are they not closing the doors now?

CS is a good dealer. They understand the accessories thing. They are plagued with space - lack of, actually. They do have a lot of cool items that range from MX to street and everything in between. I think they do a good job.

Here's how it works. They tell you that you can buy two R6s for an insane low monthly payment. Now, the REALLY fine print HAS to state what the APR is, what they will pay through the course of the loan, etc. But what the dealership banks on is that a guy and his buddy see that $99 a month for two R6s and comes in and signs the paperwork. They get $99 a month for whatever set amount of time. Sometimes it is only 6 months. Sometimes longer. Whatever the case, the payment explodes after a certain time. The two guys are sitting there knowing they can't make the payments that have grown beyond what they expected. Result? They decide to trade them in. Guess what the payoff is? I have seen multiple scenarios and situations. The R6 one I saw had them owing over $33k for two R6s... I also saw an ATV one that had two YZ450F racing quads with a payoff of $23k. If you add up the retail amounts, these people get a STOOOOOOPID amount stacked on in misc. fees and charges. The interest rates are insane, as well. Sure, being dumb and not knowing what you are getting into is one thing, but this isn't something that everyone is well versed on. There's a LOT of confusing speech used, a lot of numbers thrown in the mix. And, a LOT of BS being stated by the sales people. Overall, there is a lot of bad things that happen on a daily basis at a LOT of dealerships. It's a shame and it is something that unless the State does something about, will continue. At least the OEMs are getting on these shops and preventing them from selling out of state via shipping units. A LOT of dealers were and are doing that and it has lead to some changes that have caused some issues with certain dealers. I think it is about time. In Michigan, they passed a law and had some law suits regarding such low ball deals. It was due to misleading advertisements. Now, they HAVE to print the fine print and state the reality of the deal. However, it is so small and gets almost blurry in print that it is something most people miss. It's like that guy that can speak a thousand words a second when telling you the terms of the deal on the radio or TV...

A dealership should ALWAYS listen to customers and their comments. A dealership that is willing to make changes that better suit the customer will get more business than one that is complacent and will not... As far as overhead, that is true about less over head makes it easier to sell units for less. However, if you sell fewer units or have to bait customers in to get business, it ends up being a deal that hurts in the long run. Not much money in makes it tougher to spend more money for the things that customers want. They have low overhead on accessories because they don't have anything. That's easy for any dealership to do. However, if a dealership has accessories, they are more likely to get them added on or sold to customers who just bought a major unit. If they don't have accessories, that is revenue that is being lost. That's not a good business plan... And, you are a trooper for putting up with it. I honestly think we have some good dicussions and I definately see your side of things. I often try and not use my industry knowledge too much, but think it comes in handy to help paint a picture of what usually goes on behind the scenes that most people never see or know about... You're seemingly a good guy, Putty. I am sure you are a cool dude in person. The problem in allowing these types of deals to go on is that it is being dishonest and somewhat unethical. It's something that a dealer does knowing that a LOT of customers are not well informed. They feed off those people and rake in the money without much care as to the result. The problem is that when a customer that was "taken" by a dealer like that and they go into a dealership that shows them the truth, that person never returns and tells everyone their story. Eventually, it catches up with that dealership. It's all good until the flow stops and then it becomes evident they need to change. There's a cool thing about honesty... I had a customer once ask me if we could get them a specific unit. That unit they wanted was hard to find and VERY popular. I could have told them we could and could have ran them through the whole waiting game and credit application, etc. I told them flat out the situation, gave them the dealership I recommended and even called the sales guy I knew and let them know these people were coming. The result? We lost a unit sale that we probably were NEVER going to get. However, that couple came back and bought all their accessories from us, brought their bike in for service and came to me first when they wanted to trade. When asked, they told the owner that it was because the way they were treated at our shop. That's what honesty does for you. Ask the people who go and trade "buddy packs" if they'll go back...

The point is that you seem to have a beef with Pony. I wasn't referring solely to HNW... Everyone's got their go to dealership. Good or bad, there are shops that we tend to go to because we have friends that work there and maybe give us a good deal, etc... No issues. Just comes across as you sorta following the side of Hinds and bashing Pony. Afterall, they did tell everyone to go to the big accessory store and look at what you want and go to them for a better deal. That's sorta low, no? Especially when Hinds CANNOT get a LOT of the same product Pony gets... The Hawaii trip is something for dealers that have sold units well in a set category. I believe that was with Suzuki and it is regionally. Let's look at the Suzuki dealers in their region... There are some shitty Suzuki dealers in the mix and some dealers that don't sell a load of Suzukis compared to other brands they have... Whatever the case, I was referring to dealers in Ohio. They aren't the top dogs... It really doesn't matter as the amount of units you sell isn't really the point. It's more quality vs. quantity. Also, look at it this way - if Hinds is doing so damn well, why is it that they are STILL saying they are going to build a new building and yet still have yet to do so? Also, why is it that they have lost more brands from the shop (whether that's due to non payments or just the lack of stocking inventory) and carry next to nothing in terms of what other dealers carry? It isn't all about units. The Buddy deals they try and sell can help assist in those numbers... It's HINDS that keeps telling everyone they are going to be building a new building. We all just sit here and wait for it to actually happen... As far as the building they are in, if you think the old adage "If it is working, why fix it?" is a great answer, then the old Katana would be the top of the line sportbike we have to choose from. The thing is that dealerships need to put more effort in what they do. Leaving a building looking like shit, stuffing bikes close together and seemingly never arranging them to suit looking at them by customers, not carrying popular products in stock, not having knowledgeable sales staff, having a service department that has had units go out of the store with mouse nests in them (and you seem fine with that saying you have slip ups once in a while....), having ads that are deceptive and somewhat elusive in their set-up (buddy packs and going out FOR business), having an owner that tends to put more money in his vintage racing efforts than the shop, etc., etc., etc. may work for you, but the general public isn't stupid. They are going to see a lot of things that may make them feel they need to go somewhere else. If they think and feel it is fine, that's cool. To a lot of people who have chimed in on these Hinds threads have pointed out - they feel it isn't fine or OK... That's a majority of this sector. What do you think the rest of the buying public think? Yes, I do. I want to play this game you seemingly are not wanting to play. Find me these 5 things: ALL have to be current product and in stock 1) An Icon Jacket or AStar Jacket. Top two brands in the industry 2) Shoei, Arai, Scorpion helmets. All three are the top selling in their classes. 3) Fox, Thor, Answer. Top three MX brands in the country. Out of those three categories, there should be enough for 5 items. If you're going to do tires, that's cool. We'll have to get someone to verify Pony's store prices and see. What you need to consider on tire choices is that you'll have to pay shipping sometimes, mounting charges, and time. If you want to do close-outs, you need to understand that some items may not be closed out or not available to all dealers... Try it and let's see. I think I have listed the most common and popular items purchased... 10% isn't enough. To save $10 on a $100 item isn't worth the waiting. I can drive to Pony and buy it today and slap it on and ride while you wait at least 2-4 days for the same thing. Now, 25% or more makes me think to do it online. But that never happens. I can argue 10% all day long. Your time, waiting, possible labor, etc are all worth something... I buy from Pony a lot. I also buy from about three other dealers depending on who has what and who has it in stock and at what point I am at a shop and need something. I buy hard parts usually from one shop, specialty items at another and when I walk around Pony, it is hard to tell what I will buy because if it is in front of me, I will take advantage of that and buy it if I need it. For example, I usually buy my oil from Pony. Why? They are the only ones to carry the Motul I need. I am not about to search the internet and waste a ton of time for oil I can get today and now. I bought a set of plastic for my son's KX65 because it came with Monster Energy FX graphics and was in white like he wanted from Ebay. I didn't even ask ANY of the shops to look it up and find it. Why? They couldn't get the price as I know dealer cost and what it would be and the time factor involved. So, I bought on line... Now, it was crap plastic that isn't available through most dealers so it isn't a fair item to compare against say Polisport, Acerbis, UFO, etc. The plastic is going to be shit, but it will work for what we need... Overall, what happens is the real thing we ought to discuss is why you don't have Hinds order and get you the stuff you want. Why don't you go to them since you have a friend/s that work there and could get you probably 10% over dealer. Is it because they can't get a lot of the same things Pony can and other dealers can? Is it because they don't have it in stock and you have to wait so you go to Pony? Tell me that. I'd be VERY interested why you don't do ALL your motorcycle related business via them or via the internet... Why do you shop at Pony at all?

Those are HJC's entry level lids they do for Kawasaki. Certainly not X-11 or RF1000 caliber...

All you track day guys - keep in mind that take off tires are a GREAT idea over street compound tires. These are pretty much as good as they get - not a guy selling them with ten heat cycles on them. These are a LOT of guys who ran them through a handful of laps (i.e. a sprint race) and put on new tires. At the expert National ranks, they slap on new tires almost everytime they go out. Great idea for the track day guys and budding racers...

Title status?

To add to this comment, look at what Hinds is doing - they are advertising "Buddy Packs". Buddy packs are code word for "taking advantage of buyers". Putty is right, however - if you get screwed, you probably didn't do your homework. However, when a dealership can convince you that it is going to be the best deal you get and you take that amount and cannot get the same dollar for what you are looking at, you can easily be convinced into buying it. I think a lot of people are poorly eductated when they buy things like motorcycles and such. I also think there are PLENTY of top notch and honest dealers out there who try and educate dealers. The shop I used to work at had to deal with Michigan dealers and the buddy packs and low prices they advertised. We used to tell cutomers what was really going on and even showed them the fine print. All they seemed to think we were doing was trying to get them to buy from us. Putty's right - the price is why they buy and we couldn't match the prices. However, we'd get a LOT of buyers come back and try and trade only to find out how bad they got screwed. Hinds never used to do that... These buddy packs are BS...

You are right - low overhead will net more money in pocket. However, on the other side, short on help can lead to people waiting too long for help. That's bad. The dealership is an old boat dealership that Joyce and Jeff bought. It wasn't a home... But, if it is actually paid for, sure - it is low overhead for them. However, why not put money into it? Do you know how many people think it is a dump on the inside? I mean, if a lot of people say it, how many people actually do? The point is that Hinds slings a LOT of mud on other shops. Yet, I think they were a great shop YEARS ago. I really think after Joyce and Jeff had issues and Joyce left, it fell apart. I think she had a good finger on things there. Like I said in the Pony thread - I think they MIGHT stick around. The reasons you mentioned could be how they do it. You make great points, Putty. I simply play a little bit of Devil's Advocate for the others on here so they have some good (hopefully) counter points. I just think it is sad that there's really only one shop that is doing a good job around here. I think Pony will, too, but for a 1 million populated area, that's not many...

What about this - Who says Pony will sell at retail? Maybe they will - maybe they won't. Who cares? It's going to lay in the fact that AFTER the sale and when the customer can be directed to the 100,000 square foot accessory show room that they can find the difference. How many customers finance their accessories when they buy a bike? A LOT. That means Pony may be able to do some creative marketing to where at the point of purchase, you get something relating to that accessories showroom. Maybe free product, maybe a big discount, maybe can get special financing for a certain dollar amount, who knows? In the end, they have something that NOBODY in CBus can touch - their power in buying and the fact they have 100 times more product than anywhere within MILES of CBus... I think you have something against Pony. That's cool. However, shoot me 5 items you can buy cheaper somewhere else RIGHT NOW - today. Not something you bought 6 months ago from ebay and a buyer not an actual dealer... Tires? Sure - they don't advertise their best tire prices because they want those folks local who want them mounted and balanced. Go look at the purchase they made on Dunlop Qualifyers. 180 and 120 sets for under $300... Just an example... The close out center is something that you need to look at Bob's, Chap, Motosport, etc at to find such deals on closed out inventory. They buy THOUSANDS of a single product in a certain one time buy that would fill the showrooms of any dealerships nearby. You cannot compete against that. $39 helmets at retail? $99 jackets that were $300 just a few months ago? It's crazy...

How about you find out how much growth they have year to year and tell me how that happens if EVERYONE simply goes in to try stuff on and order on the net... One thing to keep in mind is what we call a RETAIL SALES AGREEMENT that all dealers sign that states they cannot advertise below a certain % or can only advertise at MSRP. That means, you can go to any site that sells AStars, Arai, Shoei, Oakley, Fox, Thor, Icon, Sidi, etc., etc., etc. and find it at MAYBE 10% cheaper. Thing you need to consider is that they have it NOW. Sure, maybe certain items you can find at cheaper prices and wait a few days and save minimal. Or, you can have it today and be out riding and enjoying it for maybe 10% more...