Disclaimer

It's not about throwing our arms up. It's about COST-BENEFIT

If I proposed we spend more dollars on mental health issues, but your taxes would go up 1% and I think it would prevent 10% of mass killings. Would you take that deal? What if I said 8% tax raise for a 70% reduction of mass killings?

Now how about 13% for 90% reduction? Or 20% for 99% reduction?

It costs money and time to solve problems. And it's really hard to prove that something has been prevented. We spend all this money on DHS, and they claim to have thwarted how many "terror plots"? Was it worth it? You really can't assign a value to the benefit unless you make some assumptions on how successful the terror plot was to begin with.

The school had some pretty good safety and awareness measures to begin with -- the shooter gained forced entry. So, should we, as taxpayers, foot the bill to install steel doors with badge IDs, metal detectors for the teachers to run through everyday, and bulletproof glass in all our elementary schools? What about the cities without the taxbase to do that? Maybe there's a more economical compromise? Regardless -- doing "something" will cost additional resources/money, so where would you like to get that from?

We will never stop all traffic fatalities. But we still try.

It's always a cost-benefit argument. We could eliminate all traffic fatalities as we could eliminate all school shootings and murders and crime and welfare fraud and....

But are you willing to pay the monetary costs and the costs in personal freedom to allow it? The answer will likely always be a resounding 'No'.

There are almost ONLY strange men on OR.

I know you're using "STRANGE" to hide a lot of other adjectives that are probably more accurate. That's nice of you.

Kind of like how I tell ugly chicks they are nice people so I don't hurt their feelings.

Obama will undo all of this and take our guns away.

I read it on here before the election.

Strange game. The only winning move is not to play.

Also applies to political, gun, and religion threads on the internets.

Every time I catch that movie, I miss my old BBS's

Ride!? How is that training you to fight the Korean invasion?

I hope you're not taking out one of them Japanese motorbikes... not even a week after the anniversary of Pearl Harbor.

Looks like a unicorn lair.

How did we get from Psy to prepping for a globalthermonuclear war?

Cooter needs to join Casper in the Doomsday Preppers thread...

Soft as in? Fat lazy middle aged out of shape men in those countries trying to do vigorous exercise that their body wasn't capable of? I'm not follow you on being soft?

Like, all Americans should be able to do the P90X:Plyo video in it's entirety (including the "Sports Bonus Spectacular")?

I take it all back... apparently this whole Gangnam style was a clever Korean ruse to get people to kill themselves. I think Psy is trying to kill the President. Mr. President, do NOT attempt Gangnam Style.

'Gangnam Style' death prompts warning to middle-aged men not to attempt the vigorous dance

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/gangnam-style-death-prompts-warning-to-middleaged-men-not-to-attempt-the-vigorous-dance-8411905.html

I hate 90% of what politicians do but I don't feel like venting it on here because people like you will reply with the same old your wrong but I'm not going to back my.stance up argument. Just pull a sentence out of what you said and try to twist it.

That'd be your best advice. You want to vent your political injustices, but not be called out on them??... Then you probably shouldn't do it on a public forum. You notice how many political threads i start? Its much much much less than the ones i reply to. If people dont start them, i wont reply to them. You're liable to get butthurt if you can't handle a little conflict with folks that don't see things 100% your way.

You should probably start a diary or something because coming here for validation of your worldviews is not going to bode well for you - ask Magz. Difference is, he doesn't complain about it.

If I'm so wrong in my views then enlighten me please. All you've said is your wrong you don't know. That doesn't get your point across. Just because he says he's sorry doesn't carry any weight with me. If I went on a stage and made a bunch of racist comments no matter how much I apologize afterwards I'd still be seen as a racist.

First off... Americans aren't a race, they are a group of many different races that call one country their home. He also used the word Yankee which has a whole different historical symbolism to it, but I digress...

Second, you can believe what you want. If this is an outrage to you, it's been noted. I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just saying your reasons are silly and you're holding some silly entertainer to some higher moral standard than you hold yourself. It's also silly that Psy performing at the Whitehouse fills you with more rage than Mitch McConnell filibustering his own bill. Why? Because Psy is some one hit wonder (in the US anyway) enjoying his 15mins of fame... Compared to a congressmen who is playing political games over your taxes and the actual RUNNING of this country. #Perspective

And I doubt any of those people will be allowed to entertain any Muslim leaders.

Like you said, it's entertainment... And some entertainers opinions...past, present, or future... Isn't going to affect this country in the least, save for riling up people like you over something trivial. It's just another feather in the cap to add to the reasons to hate Obama, because he allows such filth to get popular and entertain Americans.

Do you research the political stances of all the musicians you listen to before you listen to them?

No its why we need a full single payer National Health care system.

I didn't want to go that far on here... some people's heads might explode.

I guess I'm just the crazy American that doesn't find it appropriate for a person who's made hostile statements against our military to get paid by the head of that military. Kind of a conflict of interest.

Once again, you take headlines without understanding the context. You don't even know WHY they were protesting and the entire background of the South Korean culture.

You are acting like the stereotypical short-sighted American who only sees some foreigner, some non-American, directing hate towards Americans and gets upset about it. Never mind understanding the entire context of history, US-Korean relations, and the current events going on during that time.

Psy said something some years ago, has retracted it (with actually one of the better apologies I've ever seen issued). He publicly admitted he was wrong to be a part of that demonstration, but that's not good enough for you? I hope everything you've ever said and done is always held against you too. I expect nothing but perfection and political correctness out of you.

This IS weird because it's wrong, unless you're going to offer information to back it up?

http://autos.jdpower.com/ratings/dependability.htm

I see a lot of union made cars on that list, along with the non-union made ones. So...

I don't care what country you're from, what your religion is, or what your skin color is... if you're torturing non-hostile men, women, and children -- then you should probably be killed. Or at least have lyrics about it that mean jack squat in the grand scheme of things. For a song he didn't write, in a collaboration that he was a part of... plus, he apologized and taken an evolved opinion.

Besides... do you know the full background on why that collaboration was even performed? Or are you just RAGEFACE on it because you liked the headline?

Then why are unions communist? Not sure if you just said it in jest, and then seconded Magz comment, or if you were semi-serious.

No... I'm just saying that if someone is going to judge some things as "communist" vs. "free market" that, the same standards need to be applied to all "groups".

You can't rail against one, but then enjoy the benefits of it either. I mean, you can.... but that's the definition of hypocrisy.

"United we stand, divided we fall"

So, patriotism is good because we all share a sense of belonging to a society greater than any individual -- totally communist. We pay taxes as a group to support our military which protects us all -- communist principle. But, when it comes to money and markets, we want individualism under the guise of "freedom". And unions are anti-economic freedom because labor and the "common man" doesn't deserve what corporations and CEOs do.

I'm beginning to feel the hypocrisy.

Ok, so what are we debating again? I thought this was about unions?

We've never had a completely free market. Ever. If you want to go by the strict definitions.

Another good resource, that appears to be more current than the official ODJFS site: http://www.ohanet.org/hcap/

http://jfs.ohio.gov/ohp/bhpp/hcap/

Hospital Care Assurance Program (HCAP)

The Hospital Care Assurance Program (HCAP) is Ohio's version of the federally required Disproportionate Share Hospital program. HCAP compensates hospitals who provide a disproportionate share of care to indigent patients (Medicaid consumers, people below poverty, and people without health insurance).

The FFY 2009 HCAP program distributes $563 million to providers. Of that amount, $213.7 million was collected in the form of assessments to providers (which are passed along to the rest of us via bills by our providers and our insurance companies), with the balance of the funds provided by the Federal Government (also passed along to us in taxes).

Crazy you found an op-ed written by an author/member of the CRC funded by them Koch brothers that's anti-union. Shocking.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_Research_Center

And while I can appreciate disagreement as long as it's based in fact, the entire oped has no links to the claims that Patterson makes. The links that ARE in the article double back upon themselves.

Using your quote above, how do unions loathe freedom and love big government? The government doesn't implement unions, they just protect the right of workers to organize and assemble. Your freedom, as a worker, is to walk away from a union shop and go find a non-union job. You don't want to pay your dues to reap the benefits of the group that has organized and assembled, then don't take the job.

Also, "unfree markets" really? What's unfree? People always forget these are COLLECTIVELY BARGAINED CONTRACTS with employers. The employers are free to hire scab labor and kick people out. There's nothing that forces GM, Ford, or Chrysler to deal with the UAW. They can fire everyone tomorrow (well, they could if they didn't agree to the UAW contract), but come next contract negotiation time... they can let the UAW workers strike, rehire scabs, and resume production if they want.

I don't understand how people equate "unfree markets" with "contract law". Is it unfair that you have to pay your mortgage to the bank? Unfree market. If the employers don't like the contract they agreed to, then DON'T sign it.