Disclaimer

End of discussion. You agree it isn't okay. So stop preaching it. My point and logic; it's not okay to steal. If you're going to tax people, tax them equally.

How is that "end of discussion"? By your logic, all taxes are "stealing" so...fine, then we should pay ZERO taxes - f*(k everyone else. Everyone can just fend for themselves on EVERYTHING.

It's theft either way you look at it, regardless of if you'd miss it or not. By your logic, it's completely ok to shoplift. Walmart has probably in the millions of DVDs. You may only have 20. So it's totally cool to steal some from them. They probably won't miss them.

For the record, I fucking hate Walmart. But I still wouldn't steal from them.

I agree, but my point / "logic" was missed. I was just pointing out that it's relative, not that it's ok. Why would you tax poor people the same as rich people only to turn right back around and hand then back the money you just taxed them? Why not just reduce their tax rate and eliminate the bureaucracy of that extra step? I thought the goal was to eliminate gov't where possible?

How do the poor get poorer? I understand how the rich get richer. American live paycheck to paycheck because their priorities are fucked up.

I will be in lorain this weekend if you would like to drive around the projects we can count the number of direct tv dishes that are on the section 8 houses.

Remember when you posted that you'd advocate people blowing their money on stupid sh*t that they don't have because it makes you relatively richer. Just because the poor might live better than they did 10 years ago, doesn't mean the relativism didn't increase as well.

It may've been a poor choice of words on my part though -- the general idea is the income/wage gap has increased. But sure, if you wanna haul me around in your baller mobile, I'm up for a ride-along through lorain. I lived in Flint, MI for 4 years, there's nothing in Lorain that I haven't seen before.

If I had $100,000 in my pocket and you took $10, I probably wouldn't miss it.

If I had $15 in my pocket and you took $10, then we might have an issue.

How is it "stealing"? I guess I don't get why you're such a proponent for the wealthy, are you wealthy? Do you think you'll ever be weathy one day? Why would taxes on the top 2% of Americans ever affect you?

If "Trickle Down" economics ever worked, the wage gap and income inequality wouldn't be the largest it's been in history for the US. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer. People bitch and moan about the lobbyists and how people with money are the only ones that get their voice heard, yet people CONTINUE to support that exact system and I can't figure out why Is it because one day they hope to be rich? They hope they'll end up in that elitist class somehow, someday? Yea, keep believing that "if you just work hard" you'll be rewarded.

That's how organized religion works too.

http://www.irishcentral.com/story/ent/manhattan_diary/americas-middle-class-is-dying-and-the-stats-prove-it-99180624.html

Just a lil snippet for you

• 61 percent of Americans 'always or usually' live paycheck to

paycheck, which was up from 49 percent in 2008 and 43 percent in 2007.

• A staggering 43 percent of Americans have less than $10,000

saved up for retirement.

• More than 40 percent of Americans who actually are employed

are now working in service jobs, which are often very low paying.

http://www.alternet.org/economy/149531/the_class_war_launched_by_america%27s_wealthiest_is_getting_more_savage/?page=entire

http://crooksandliars.com/brad-reed/cl-opening-bell-need-alternative-economi

I believe in equal for everyone. If you tax me 25%, you better tax the rich and the poor the same 25%. No less for the poor and more for the rich shit. Equality. That makes me an American.

Equality. That's something a communist would strive for.

Awesome!

I'm sorry, I'm sure they all affect you with your six figure income and $3.5M inheritence.

Besides the majority of my choices were value-"Bang for your buck"-type choices, not ideological -- call me a liberal all you want, but I'm really an economist, with some morals.

I thought I posted this on here, but I must've just put it on my other forum.

I found what I originally put in back in the day...

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2010/11/13/weekinreview/deficits-graphic.html?choices=wk2165r1

I might actually have to be nice to this n00b because he's got something I want.

Hint: it's from Bavaria, but it's not the cream (no homo).

Welcome BMW n00b and former Hayan00bsauce.

Cool post, buuuuuuuutt....

The Cella Energy place is making awful big claims, and the article doesn't have a lot of underlying data/engineering with it. Where does the $1.50/gallon figure come from? What is the source material? How abundant is it? I get that it's Hydrogen-based, but there's obviously more to the process. How can you develop something for years in secret? -- with todays 24hr news cycle and tech leaks, I would think their suppliers or contractors would've figured it out and leaked it. Then, I'd want to look at their financials, are they hurting for cash? This could be a "press bump" to get more investor funds...

So, again, thanks for sharing, it's cool and I'm rooting for it, but I'll believe it when I see it - kinda like cold fusion.

Parking @ Buddy's is gonna be a bear.

I agree, I don't think even the most bleeding heart of all the liberal hearts condones anyone who intentionally defrauds the system. I'm just trying to find the most pragmatic solution to the problem. I don't think we'll ever develop a perfect system, but we can do our best to maximize the effectiveness while minimizing the cost - and that system will still have inherent flaws which'll allow people the abuse it if they so desire. We can't eliminate fraud, but we can strike a point where there is enough enforcement to keep the fraud to an 'acceptable' level.

Honestly, I'm glad you said something to the lady, but there may be more to their story than their appearance (and iPhones) let on. That's all I'm saying. I try to not judge a book by their cover, give people the benefit of the doubt and whatnot, until I have evidence they're schmucks, then feel free to judge away. Everyone does.

Good for you then... and what was the outcome?

Just last week at Giant Eagle. The exact scenario. I had plenty of time to study the situation as she was arguing that she didn't use the card yet, so she didn't know why it didn't have any money left. Her man was with her talking on his I-phone. When she wasn't getting her way with the young cashier, she pulled out her I-phone and dialed someone so that she could cuss and swear about how stupid this cashier was. Where I live, I see it every time I walk in the Grocery store.

Edit: By the way, the bling-bitch was white and the young cashier was black. So don't go down the bigotry road.

Ok, so why didn't you say something? If you're not willing to accept it on the Internet, why, when presented with a situation in real life, you wouldn't say something to the welfare queen? Why can you blanket judge someone on the Internet, but not in real life? If she was really defrauding the system you should've let her know that you don't approve of the way she's utilizing your tax dollars, no?

Government cheese, my friend. Self respect? Dignity? "Rights of the consumer"? Check it at the door when you sign up for the give-aways.

I'm also a little disturbed that you think people should give up their dignity and self respect just because they've fallen on tough times.

And even if we give vouchers instead of cash, that still allows people to get free goods/services. Still wouldn't stop Tb's guy from spending his unclaimed cash on TVs and iPads instead of food and housing.

You see this often? Firsthand?

Do you assume people with 'bling' and iPhones are welfare recepients?

Hitler once said, if you tell a lie long enough it becomes the truth.

kinda like

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Welfare_queen

Tie the Ohio Pride card to certain, specific, nutritionally-sound generic food items. Then eliminate cash payouts. You want cell phones, cars, and tats then get a fucking job.

Closer and more practical, but you're still in a circular argument. How do you get a job without a car? How is your employer supposed to contact you if you don't have a phone? How can you legitimately afford any of this stuff on minimum wage? You buy a sh*tty car, it breaks down, you can't afford to fix it and get fired from your job for not showing up. Cycle starts all over again.

You could take the bus right? Well, what if the only job you can find is 3 or 4 miles from the closest stop and you aren't able-bodied enough to make that trek every day, esp. in the winter?

Like I said, why is the assumption that people are abusing the system? Does anyone actually know what percentage of people are defrauding the system? And of that, how many fraudulent applicants would be caught with the proposed measures? Using Tb's example, the guy he knows just doesn't claim income... How do you stop that?

i already posted my solution on the first page.

drug testing and BC shots a requirement for wellfare...if you dont want to submit to either, thats your right, but you wont receive assistance.

but i think the statement that asking people to take drug tests before mooching off the government is not "american" makes no sense to me

i want her to explain what is american to her...im sure she can think for herself without you jumping in to speak for her

I'm not speaking for anyone, I'm just asking some questions. Who pays for the drug testing? Can you reapply once you're clean? Who pays for the second, third, fourth..tests? How do you get welfare as a single male when you want to require a BC shot? Where do you draw the line dictating what hoops these people have to jump through to get assistance?

It's funny how people complain about having to have car insurance, for example, because all it does is punish the law abiding citizens, yet it's ok to make people jump through all these hoops to get assistance because the assumption is the majority are abusing and defrauding the system. Why is THAT the beginning premise?

its not american to try and prevent losers from sucking the system dry?

what is "american" to you? supporting drug habits of wellfare moms and their crack babies?

I'm waiting to hear your solution. Hating on an idea is the easy part... so present your solution and I'll tell you why it sucks

Yea, we shouldn't be footing the bill for them to smoke or party either.

http://cleveland.craigslist.org/mcy/2181635042.html

I have a great bike with really low miles. The odometer shows 6553 miles right now. I got the bike last May with 2560 miles. It has the best tires you can buy on it, Michelin Power Pilot 2CT tires on it. I bought them last year at Rick Roush Motorsports in Medina for $600.

Don't care - still edible. It could be rancid lemur vagina and drunks and potheads would still eat it at 3AM.