Please Help!!

[Kmanlyst]

if all else fails I'll make Hoblick an offer he can't refuse...or try to anyway.

[Gunner75]

Yeah but cutting it close I bought it in May.

One reason why i bought the extended warranty for my 650.

[smashweights]

Seriously though, try running 87 from now on. Higher octane fuel likely is hurting your bike more than helping it.

http://www.250r.net/forum/showthread.php?t=1329

[Kmanlyst]

Seriously though, try running 87 from now on. Higher octane fuel likely is hurting your bike more than helping it.

http://www.250r.net/forum/showthread.php?t=1329

plan on it after this issue is resolved.

[smashweights]

plan on it after this issue is resolved.

I'm experimenting with 89 in my Monster now instead of 93 after seeing it really only needs 90 per manual.

[Gixxus Christ!]

Really sounding like your carbs need cleaned. Its an easy job even for a beginner, should be a billion YouTube videos on how to do it.

[JackFlash]

Ethanol attracts moisture and condensation and that ='s bad.

Keeping your fuel tank full eliminates room for air in the tank. The less air in the tank, the less of a chance that condensation can form in the tank since it's the air has carries moisture.

I believe ethanol helps to absorb any water from condensation. It could only attract moisture that is already in your tank. Better to burn it out than to have it sit in the bottom of the tank and give you a rust problem. Rust particles are not a good mix for a fuel system.

I've used gasoline with 10% ethanol for decades without any problems at all with carbs, fuel injection, or fuel systems. It keeps things clean. Methanol (a wood alcohol) was the corrosive alcohol that did a lot of damage when they came up with blended fuels.

.

[Helmutt]

Since its stalling immediately with the choke on and wont fire without the choke, I'm assuming it's starving for fuel so there's probably some gel in the carbs. You've been storing it outside since you got it back right? I'm with the SeaFoam idea, and it wouldn't hurt to keep some in each tank full for a while.

Edit - Also probably want to get the carbs rejetted and synched since adding the slip on and hiflow filter. Some folks boast shimming the needle with washers is enough to compensate the leaner condition, but I'm not a fan of loose washers having opportunity of finding their way into the intake.

Edited March 16, 2013 by Hellmutt

[smashweights]

I concur with all the seafoam comments, unless someone knows a better way to clean it out.

Copied from another forum FYI:

A Lower Octane Rated Fuel Is Better

The short answer is ... Don't use a higher fuel grade than recommended, you'll make LESS power.

Read your owner's manual and find out what Ducati says your bike's octane requirements are. In a 916 I run regular grade fuel. Ducati recommends either Plus (which is better if it doesn't ping) or Premium grade in a 998.

Unfortunately, each new generation of riders has to learn this. (So you old-timers bear with me.)

Fuel manufacturers are in business to make money and gain market share, so they've played an interesting head game with consumers, especially when they chose the name for different gasoline octane levels.

Quite understandably, many riders believe that higher octane fuels are better for their bikes (and cars) since they are labeled PREMIUM. The logic being that, since it is more expensive it must be somehow better than REGULAR. In reality, the premium label originates from the higher cost to refine it, which in turn results in a higher retail cost at the pump.

Some refiners take a different approach and label their high octane fuels SUPER so that owners will think that these fuels will make their vehicles more powerful. (I'm surprised they haven't tried to call it JUMBO to get you to think you're getting more gas per gallon.) OPTIMAX is a pretty clever name too.

As a result, according to the US Federal Trade Commission, "Studies indicate that altogether, drivers may be spending hundreds of millions of dollars each year for higher octane gas than they need. ... using a higher octane gasoline than your owner’s manual recommends offers ABSOLUTELY NO BENEFIT. It won’t make your vehicle perform better, go faster, get better mileage or run cleaner."

http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/autos/octane.htm

The stated role of the FTC is to work for the consumer to prevent fraudulent, deceptive and unfair business practices in the marketplace and to provide information to help consumers spot, stop and avoid them.

Unfortunately, consumers aren't getting the message.

The fact is, higher octane fuel has no more energy stored in it than low octane fuel. Consequently, it can't increase your engines performance. The octane rating given to fuel is defined only in accord with that fuel’s resistance to detonation - or more accurately - pre-detonation. It has nothing to do with the power it can release.

Engines need a fuel that detonates in a controlled fashion - i.e. burning fast, but not too fast. In an engine that has an increased compression ratio by design, the increased pressure and temperature in the combustion chamber will cause a too-low octane fuel to detonate prior to the piston reaching top-dead-center (TDC). This results in a ping you can hear. This misfire will create forces that oppose the rotational inertia of the crank and flywheel so performance suffers.

Occasional light knocking or pinging won’t harm your engine, and doesn’t indicate a need for higher octane. But don’t ignore severe knocking. A heavy or persistent knock can lead to engine damage.

A proper air/fuel mixture when ignited by the spark plug burns, it doesn’t explode. The burn time of an air/fuel mixture is factored into the ignition timing. That is why timing settings are specified @ BTDC (before top dead center). When the air/fuel mixture is ignited the piston is still on the way up. Because of the piston velocity and the burn time of the air/fuel mixture maximum cylinder pressure is obtained just after the piston passes TDC, giving you optimum power output.

High octane fuel has additives that increase the ignition temperature of the air/fuel mix so it can be used with the higher pressures and temperatures of high performance engines. These additives were initially tri-ethyl-lead that presented health and environment risks so many countries have outlawed their use (with some exceptions for aviation fuel). These additives are intended to actually slow/delay combustion slightly.

Most modern engines are designed with a moderate compression ratio that doesn’t need leaded fuel and will run as well or BETTER on low octane fuel. Remember, it’s easier to ignite a low octane fuel than a high octane fuel and that the higher octane fuel burns slower.

Some engines are designed with high octane fuel requirements. Forced induction (turbo-charged and super-charged) engines have higher cylinder pressures so they require higher octane gas.

Older engines having carbon deposit build-up that effectively increases the compression ratio may require a higher grade gas. Modified or stock engines with high compression ratios above 11.5:1 may need to run a plus or higher grade gas.

Advanced ignition timing results in higher cylinder pressures. If your ignition advance is set too high this will also induce pinging since you are igniting the mix even more before TDC so cylinder pressures rise more quickly as the piston is still compressing and the tendency to detonate is higher. Some automobile engines even have knock-sensor protection to retard timing for this reason.

So what’s the downside of using too high an octane fuel? Higher cost with no benefits is one. Paradoxically, another is that burning higher octane fuel in an engine designed to operate at a lower octane rating can produce carbon deposits secondary to partially unburned (slower burning) fuel. These carbon deposits can build up so as to reduce combustion chamber volume and effectively raise your compression ratio, causing you to actually need a higher octane grade.

The optimum octane rating is actually slightly lower than the manufacturer’s recommended minimum stated in the owners handbook. This is to provide a safety margin in case a particular fuel delivery or brand doesn’t quite reach it's specified octane rating or to compensate for environmental changes. The octane requirement is different depending on the weather and your location.

Modern motorcycle engine management systems adjust automatically to prevent pinging. Variables that affect pinging, such as coolant temperature, ambient air pressure and air temperature, are constantly monitored by the computer to assure best performance.

For example, in the summer when your coolant temperatures run hotter, a water jacket temperature increase of 10 degrees from 160°F to 180°F would normally increase the (R+M)/2 octane number required by 2, which is one gasoline grade higher than recommended. However, the computer has a preset fuel and ignition timing map that tells it to retard the timing to avoid pinging when the temperature is high.

It's important to note that the fuel and ignition map is based on the expectation that you are using the recommended fuel. If you are using a higher than recommended octane fuel, the computer doesn't know and will still temporarily retard the timing. So the computer cannot take advantage of a higher octane fuel unless you reprogram the fuel and ignition map on a dyno.

Pay attention to the rating system specified in the manual. For motorcycles manufactured outside the US, the owners handbook will specify the minimum fuel octane requirement as either 91 RON (US Regular), 95 RON (US Plus), or 98 RON (US Premium.)

The octane rating system is different in the US. When this system is used, 87 (R+M/2) is called Regular, 89 (R+M/2) is called Plus and 92 (R+M/2) is called Premium.

The bottom line is ... for best performance use a fuel rated as close to the manufacturer’s MINIMUM recommended rating as possible. If it pings, try a different brand or use the next higher grade.

[Kmanlyst]

Since its stalling immediately with the choke on and wont fire without the choke, I'm assuming it's starving for fuel so there's probably some gel in the carbs. You've been storing it outside since you got it back right? I'm with the SeaFoam idea, and it wouldn't hurt to keep some in each tank full for a while.

yup Seafoam is in the tank now, hope it setting over night breaks up any gunk. Going to start it up in the morning and see what happens.

[Helmutt]

It really needs to be circulated throughout the fuel system, if you can get it to fire a few times to draw some into the carbs it might do more for the problem

[shep]

Doesn't sea foam smoke a ton?

[Kmanlyst]

It really needs to be circulated throughout the fuel system, if you can get it to fire a few times to draw some into the carbs it might do more for the problem

yeah I put some in the tank and ran it for 5 minutes should be plenty in the system.

[Kmanlyst]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kM_OeEdeKnI

[Kmanlyst]

Doesn't sea foam smoke a ton?

it should but I did not get any in the 5min run to get it in the system.

[smashweights]

SeaFoam smokes profusely when poured directly into the intake, IIRC. It doesnt really do anything when in the fuel only.

[Pokey]

I love fuel injection.

[Kmanlyst]

I love fuel injection.

Yeah trust me was pissed when they announced the 300 shortly after getting this.

[Kmanlyst]

right now my biggest fear is it dies when I roll on the throttle because one of the diaphragms are damaged.

[Gixxus Christ!]

Diaphragms are cheap and easy to replace dude, don't fear the carburator, its a very simple little machine.

[Kmanlyst]

Diaphragms are cheap and easy to replace dude, don't fear the carburator, its a very simple little machine.

I fear taking it apart and not being able to get it back together lol

[Gump]

Choke pulls fuel through a different hole than the idle circuit or the other circuit. . Betting its got a tiny piece if crap stuck in a jet. If this is a carbed model. Open the screws that let's gas out the hose that heads towards the ground and shake and close then do it again. Prolly main jet since when you hit the gas it dies. Idle circuit can't support WOT.

Edited March 16, 2013 by Gump

[Kmanlyst]

Choke pulls fuel through a different hole than the idle circuit or the other circuit. . Betting its got a tiny piece if crap stuck in a jet. If this is a carbed model.

Sadly this is the carbureted.

[Gump]

Fuck fuel injection. Carbs are simple once u can get to them.

[Kmanlyst]

Sigh, This damn issue is keeping me from getting sleep.