Open carry lawsuit out of Dayton.

[4DAIVI PAI2K5]

He was looking for a confrontation...and he found one. His rights were not infringed. If he would have cooperated, we would not have heard about this at all.

He lied about not having identification

Then his intent was to deceive.

Police should prevent crimes, not just be a reactionary force.

Which statement would that be?

This guy is trying to fight for his rights, in all the wrong ways.

Those ones.

[4DAIVI PAI2K5]

It is required to drive.

but he wasn't driving when the interaction took place.

[Gunner75]

It is required to drive.

HE WASNT DRIVING WHEN THE POLICE INITIATED CONTACT WITH HIM, THEREFORE HE WASNT REQUIRED TO HAVE IT ON HIM

Jesus christ do you know how to read?

[4DAIVI PAI2K5]

Yes. Because the media will spin it too fit their needs and the uninformed/under informed public will eat it up.

It does more harm than good.

That is because people are becoming sheep. Laying down and taking it. Instead of making the uninformed/under informed public aware of the right provided by the Constitution, and educating them.

So then are you promoting people who are in the proccess of getting their ccw to illegally conceal? I open carried until i had my ccw permit and still do on occasion. I see plenty of ccw people flash their gun to friends for "attention whore" purposes.

This guy did nothing wrong, open carry is legal regardless if you like it or not. He broke no laws, and open carry does not mean your looking "to initiate interactions by law enforcement", its his way of carry/defense and its his choice not yours.

POLICE DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT SO ASK FOR ID OR SEIZE PERSONAL PROPERTY IF NO LAWS WERE BROKEN ACCORDING TO THE CONSTITUTION. In this case they did not even have probable cause. If you disagree with that because he had a gun, then they should assume everyone who has alcohol is going to drink and drive right? seize that shit.

Everyone who has pain killers is a drug dealer right? seize that shit.

Everyone who has pressure cookers is a terrorist right? seize that shit.

Should I continue?

It won't let me rep you again.

[baptizo]

So, let me get this straight....if someone is OC'ing they're automatically an attention whore and looking for a confrontation with the police.

Okay.....got it.

[Gunner75]

And the area in which he was detained isnt the greatest area, its right next to a shitty apartment complex, and less then a quarter mile from the Riverside Police station right off route 4.

[Tigerpaw]

4DAIVI PAI2K5, scottie.harris, Gunner75,

How would you have responded to the scene(as a police officer)?

[grapesmuggler27]

The whole point is he had no reason to be detained. You do not need to show ID. Its this man's right to open carry. As long as he was within the letter of the law there's no reason to stop him

[Gunner75]

4DAIVI PAI2K5, scottie.harris, Gunner75,

How would you have responded to the scene(as a police officer)?

First off it would have been up to the dispatcher to verify that a crime was taking place as open carrying of a firearm is legal.

Had I been an officer who was dispatched, I dont know how to respond to such a call as I am not trained in the laws that these officers should have been trained in.

[Tigerpaw]

First off it would have been up to the dispatcher to verify that a crime was taking place as open carrying of a firearm is legal.

I don't know if that is the norm.

[Tigerpaw]

Those ones.

I still stand by all those quotes.

[Gunner75]

I don't know if that is the norm.

Its called common sense, the person making the call says,

"yeah Im at speedway getting gas, and someone walked into the store with a gun"

The dispatcher should have asked

"What is the person doing with it, are they waving it around"

What the dispatcher probably said was

"Ok we will get someone out there"

[snot]

So, let me get this straight....if someone is OC'ing they're automatically an attention whore and looking for a confrontation with the police.

Okay.....got it.

No, but you do need to take in consideration of where you chose to OC. Walking around a high crime area at 4 am will draw attention. The person in the gas station was concerned about there own safety and did what they thought was right. He has a license to conceal carry, so do just that. Due to the time of day and the area the police reacted in a way to protect themselves and others. The guy was not breaking a law but was not cooperating to resolve the situation quickly either.

I was told during my class to always catty ID no matter how I chose to carry. This is so if there ever is a situation I could prove I was legal (speeds things up a bit).

Edited May 12, 2013 by snot

[r1crusher]

Open carry in the summer is a lot easier to do than going concealed. Shirts and shorts don't always allow for good concealment. I think there is a time and place for open carry. Did this guy purposely go looking for trouble? Who knows and who cares. The problem is when people blow things out of proportion...period.

[Tigerpaw]

Its called common sense, the person making the call says,

"yeah Im at speedway getting gas, and someone walked into the store with a gun"

The dispatcher should have asked

"What is the person doing with it, are they waving it around"

What the dispatcher probably said was

"Ok we will get someone out there"

Neither of us knows the protocol for police dispatch.

[ReconRat]

It's out of the normal routine, and would get attention. That with no ID, could easily turn into "hold for 24 hours". And no part of that would be illegal. Pushing the envelope.

A bunch of "yes sirs" and an ID would have eased the situation a lot.

There might be a back story on this guy as well, that we don't know.

[r1crusher]

So the general conception is: a holstered gun = criminal.

Yeah, because thugs always go around with their gats holstered.

[ReconRat]

Looks like he did film it, there's a video on FaceBook.

Dunno what to say about that. Looks like he got what he wanted.

edit: hold on, not sure now. The video is posted by him? Of a similar event at a Kroger's.

And it's not clear if it's him or somebody else. Dunno.

edit: that video is from the police vehicle dash cam, I think...

Edited May 12, 2013 by ReconRat

[Gunner75]

It's out of the normal routine, and would get attention. That with no ID, could easily turn into "hold for 24 hours". And no part of that would be illegal. Pushing the envelope.

A bunch of "yes sirs" and an ID would have eased the situation a lot.

There might be a back story on this guy as well, that we don't know.

So where is this law that specifically says one must carry their ID at all times regardless of where they are and what they are doing

[Tigerpaw]

So the general conception is: a holstered gun = criminal.

Yeah, because thugs always go around with their gats holstered.

no.

Concerned call about a gun in a high crime neighborhood/time/location = some officers investigating.

He purposely hindered that investigation. Charges were dropped. He wants $3.6M.

[baptizo]

No, but you do need to take in consideration of where you chose to OC. Walking around a high crime area at 4 am will draw attention. The person in the gas station was concerned about there own safety and did what they thought was right. He has a license to conceal carry, so do just that. Due to the time of day and the area the police reacted in a way to protect themselves and others. The guy was not breakind a law but was not cooperating to resolve the situation quickly either.

I was told during my class to always catty ID no matter how I chose to carry. This is so if there ever is a situation I could prove I was legal (speeds things up a bit).

I understand what you're saying and would have politely cooperated but my point is OC isn't, for most people, about getting attention thus my sardonic response. sent using my 360

[ReconRat]

There is no law to carry ID (yet, wait for it). But there is a right to hold a person without one.

Heck, that right is available whether they have an ID or not.

[imaposer]

First off it would have been up to the dispatcher to verify that a crime was taking place as open carrying of a firearm is legal.

Had I been an officer who was dispatched, I dont know how to respond to such a call as I am not trained in the laws that these officers should have been trained in.

No, it is not up to the dispatcher to decide shit. They take the call, put it in the system and dispatch the police. Dispatchers aren't police.

[Steve Butters]

He had his ID while he was driving, and left it in the car when he exited. Nothing about that is illegal.

Also, if you're concealed carrying, you are required to have your permit on you... Open carry you don't.

Furthermore, you are not required to have your ID while driving as long as you provide enough information to the officer to positively identify yourself. (mainly your social security number)... I've been stopped a couple times without ID and it was never an issue and never even mentioned, other than asking me for my ssn.

Not that it even matters for this since he wasn't driving, and when he was driving he DID have his id... Just posting this because some people don't understand the difference between driving and walking through a gas station

[Gunner75]

No, it is not up to the dispatcher to decide shit. They take the call, put it in the system and dispatch the police. Dispatchers aren't police.

Ill give you that much, but police are there to investigate crimes, there was no crime committed so there its a waste of money and public resources to investigate a noncrime.