speedytriple Posted May 13, 2013 Report Share Posted May 13, 2013 I am not saying that we have to give up our rights to resist a hassle. But is it worth $3.6 million? Give me a break. We are a sue happy society, and that is a sad truth. My boss is a dick should I sue my work place for it? Life is not fair who can I sue for that? The president is breaking my constitutional rights who can I sue for that? Where does it end? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grapesmuggler27 Posted May 13, 2013 Report Share Posted May 13, 2013 I am not saying that we have to give up our rights to resist a hassle. But is it worth $3.6 million? Give me a break. We are a sue happy society, and that is a sad truth. My boss is a dick should I sue my work place for it? Life is not fair who can I sue for that? The president is breaking my constitutional rights who can I sue for that? Where does it end?That's for a judge to decide how much its worth. How much are your rights worth to you? Yes we are a sue happy society I 100% agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedytriple Posted May 13, 2013 Report Share Posted May 13, 2013 I don't know but show me a way to get rich quick please!! If I hve to be a dick to a local cop so be it LOL! Maybe it's the beer talking? Should I sue the beer company for making me happy? LOL! pass me another one... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pokey Posted May 13, 2013 Report Share Posted May 13, 2013 If you have a weapon in the car, you are required by law to notify, if you dont then you are not required to notify.https://www.ohiobar.org/ForPublic/Resources/LawFactsPamphlets/Pages/LawFactsPamphlet-21.aspxJust comply, attitude is typically paramount in this type of predicament. There appears to be a fine line as usual with situations like this, do what they ask so you can go about your merry way. If you typically show an officer respect, they will show it back "in my experience". Where are the Leos on the forum, would sure love to hear their side of the story concerning this? If the gentleman did in fact simply provided his name, address and date of birth and invoked his right to silence, then he was fully within his rights and the officers were wrong to do more. They would still need to call in and check him out, which was all they were asking him. But had he had the CHL on his person, that right there is all the proof he needed. I just don't see this as a big deal "maybe because I have friends in law enforcement". I just don't see this as infringement, I have nothing to hide nor will I be recording a stop. I fully respect how many of you here would react or respond in a situation like this, for me I will just comply and save myself some hassle and potential implications."Police have the power to approach persons and ask them questions. Simply because you are approached and questioned by the police does not mean you are suspected of having committed a crime. All citizens are encouraged to cooperate with the police so those who break the law can be brought to justice, but, with one exception, discussed below, you have no legal duty to answer any question, and you may refuse to answer. This is called the right of silence. You should never lie to a law enforcement officer, however. If you do, you can get into trouble for “obstructing official business.” "If the police “stop” me and ask me questions? Suppose you are walking down a street when a police officer confronts you and says: “Stop. I need to ask you some questions.” A person is “stopped,” or “detained,” when an officer uses enough force, or a show of authority, to make a reasonable person feel he or she is not free to leave. If, in addition to calling out for you to stop and using his or her authority to make you stop, the officer also pulls out a weapon or uses a threatening tone of voice, it would be even clearer that you have been "stopped." If the officer interferes with your liberty to move about, he or she should first have a reasonable suspicion that you have been involved in a crime. The officer would need to support this suspicion later (should the matter should wind up in court) by referring to specific facts that prompted the suspicion". "The police do not have to tell you that you are a suspect or that they intend to arrest you, but if they use force or a show of authority to keep you from leaving, they probably consider you a suspect, even if you were the person who called the police. If they read or recite your Miranda rights, they suspect you have committed a crime"."You have the right, if you are stopped, to refuse to answer any questions for any reason or no reason. You can invoke your right to silence by saying, "I refuse to answer any questions" or "I want to speak to a lawyer" or "I wish to remain silent." If you do not clearly invoke your right to silence with such a statement, you may subject yourself to continued questioning by police"."There is one exception to your right to silence: According to Ohio law since April 2006, if you are in a public place and under certain circumstances, you must give your name, address and date of birth to an officer. If you fail to provide this information under such circumstances, you will be committing a fourth-degree misdemeanor and may be arrested". 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedytriple Posted May 13, 2013 Report Share Posted May 13, 2013 Book um Dan'o. So if you act like a d-bag expect to be treated like one... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner75 Posted May 13, 2013 Report Share Posted May 13, 2013 https://www.ohiobar.org/ForPublic/Resources/LawFactsPamphlets/Pages/LawFactsPamphlet-21.aspx"There is one exception to your right to silence: According to Ohio law since April 2006, if you are in a public place and under certain circumstances, you must give your name, address and date of birth to an officer. If you fail to provide this information under such circumstances, you will be committing a fourth-degree misdemeanor and may be arrested".Ok so what are these circumstances? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner75 Posted May 13, 2013 Report Share Posted May 13, 2013 Book um Dan'o. So if you act like a d-bag expect to be treated like one...The same can and should be said when a cop is this way. They can and have been dicks on stops many times. I react when the office reacts. If hes cool calm and collective I am cool calm and collective. Once that office becomes a dick I become a dick. Nothing against the law to be an asshole or disrespecting an officer. Touch one, then you bet your ass is planted on the pavement with your dick in the dirt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grapesmuggler27 Posted May 13, 2013 Report Share Posted May 13, 2013 Ok so what are these circumstances?http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2921.29 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pokey Posted May 13, 2013 Report Share Posted May 13, 2013 Ok so what are these circumstances?And I will bet my ass that there is much more info and details to the story that we are not being told, typical media tactic and flaw. And for every bad cop, I can show ya 10 good ones. How much positive interactions with law enforcement makes the news compared to the few bad? This down below is good enough for me......“Had he been truthful with the police and simply provided his identification so that they could have quickly ran it, that encounter would have been over very quickly, within a minute or two,” Reiss said.Open carrying a firearm without a license in Ohio is legal in most circumstances. Call does have a conceal and carry license (CCW), but Reiss said Call did not immediately provide police with his CCW, driver’s license or admit that he drove to the gas station.“Given the time of the day, the location, and the fact that convenience store/gas stations are typical targets for robberies in the middle of the night,” Reiss said. “It would seem reasonable in the eyes of a police officer to ask someone who was carrying a gun if it was legally permissible for them to do so.” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grapesmuggler27 Posted May 13, 2013 Report Share Posted May 13, 2013 And I will bet my ass that there is much more info and details to the story that we are not being told, typical media tactic and flaw. And for every bad cop, I can show ya 10 good ones. How much positive interactions with law enforcement makes the news compared to the few bad? This down below is good enough for me......“Had he been truthful with the police and simply provided his identification so that they could have quickly ran it, that encounter would have been over very quickly, within a minute or two,” Reiss said.Open carrying a firearm without a license in Ohio is legal in most circumstances. Call does have a conceal and carry license (CCW), but Reiss said Call did not immediately provide police with his CCW, driver’s license or admit that he drove to the gas station.“Given the time of the day, the location, and the fact that convenience store/gas stations are typical targets for robberies in the middle of the night,” Reiss said. “It would seem reasonable in the eyes of a police officer to ask someone who was carrying a gun if it was legally permissible for them to do so.”Not saying anyone was a dick. But where in the ORC does it say I have to show my ID? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner75 Posted May 13, 2013 Report Share Posted May 13, 2013 Well he wasnt required to provide his CHL because he was open carry. So CHL doesnt apply. How is how he got the part of the investigation into a MWAG? The time of day, location, and that its a convenience store should be of no matter whether or not hes a suspect, if hes not visably breaking the law then where is the stop? Their reasoning for a "being reasonable" is because it allows them to do their job easier in light of no laws were broken. They were searching for a reason. The simple act of open carry is not enough of a reason to initiate a stop/interaction this has been tested and back up by law suits many times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedytriple Posted May 13, 2013 Report Share Posted May 13, 2013 Are you out of your mind Pokey? Why would anyone give up their personal info to a leo? They must want big brother tracking their every move. What kind of horse shit is it to give up your info to a leo you suck and deserve to be burned at the stake for suggesting the suspect was in the wrong. He should have told the leo to phuck off then rode off into the sunrise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner75 Posted May 13, 2013 Report Share Posted May 13, 2013 http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/node/8510Cincinnati police chief advises staff of legality regarding open carry of a firearm in Ohio"Many people worry when they see someone openly carrying a gun. Officers can expect to receive calls when this happens. But, openly carrying a firearm, by itself, is not illegal. The fact that someone has called 911 or flagged down an officer about seeing someone with a gun in public is probably not enough to support an investigative detention. In such situations, an officer must observe the subject and evaluate the totality of circumstances to determine whether reasonable suspicion exists to justify detaining the individual. If the individual is doing nothing else that arouses suspicion, simply wearing a gun will not justify a detention."This has and i promise will be the basis of his lawsuit as it has been used in other lawsuits before successfully Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anden Posted May 13, 2013 Report Share Posted May 13, 2013 I cannot spread enough rep in this thread. Some of you most definitely recieved your Phd in Hindsite from an online school. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner75 Posted May 13, 2013 Report Share Posted May 13, 2013 Oh and lets not forget about this one as wellEqually important, before you charge someone with a violation of Ohio Revised Code (ORC) 2921.29, Failure to Disclose Personal Information (also referred to as the "Stop and I.D." law), you first must have reasonable suspicion that person has, is, or is about to commit a criminal offense. The "Stop and I.D." law does not apply unless you already have a valid investigative detention of the person – and open carry by itself is not enough. Citizens may ignore your request for information during a consensual encounter, so you may only charge a citizen with a violation of ORC 2921.29 when they are legally detained. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pokey Posted May 13, 2013 Report Share Posted May 13, 2013 http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2921.29And we currently don't know what was given or not by the gun owner, that is the issue here. He had the right to invoke silence, but how he did that still sounds like it was handled poorly by the gun owner. "Why are you wearing an open gun"? Proper response: I am a CHL holder in a bad part of town, I am fully abiding by the law and my right to open carry. "Can I see your id or proof of CHL"? Sure officer, but I have it out in my car. My name is blah blah blah and I live on blah blah blah and I was more on blah, is that enough information? See how easy this all would've been? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grapesmuggler27 Posted May 13, 2013 Report Share Posted May 13, 2013 And we currently don't know what was given or not by the gun owner, that is the issue here. He had the right to invoke silence, but how he did that still sounds like it was handled poorly by the gun owner. "Why are you wearing an open gun"? Proper response: I am a CHL holder in a bad part of town, I am fully abiding by the law and my right to open carry. "Can I see your id or proof of CHL"? Sure officer, but I have it out in my car. My name is blah blah blah and I live on blah blah blah and I was more on blah, is that enough information? See how easy this all would've been?The issue is there was no reason to stop the gentleman. Did he commit a crime? He didn't have to say anything to the officers. That's his right. That's what its about. He was illegally detained and his weapon was illegally seized. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedytriple Posted May 13, 2013 Report Share Posted May 13, 2013 So you can be detained legally for obstruction of justice? But this is worth 3.6 million? I got burned once by a hot french fry that had no warning on it, can I sue for $12 million? This fucktard needs to go away with no money. He is the reason the anti gunners have fuel. He is the reason why anti gunners hate guns. He maybe trying to prove a point but going about it all wrong. You hate the old lady who got millions for burning herself with hot coffee from Mcdonalds when she knew it was hot? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pokey Posted May 13, 2013 Report Share Posted May 13, 2013 http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/node/8510Cincinnati police chief advises staff of legality regarding open carry of a firearm in Ohio"Many people worry when they see someone openly carrying a gun. Officers can expect to receive calls when this happens. But, openly carrying a firearm, by itself, is not illegal. The fact that someone has called 911 or flagged down an officer about seeing someone with a gun in public is probably not enough to support an investigative detention. In such situations, an officer must observe the subject and evaluate the totality of circumstances to determine whether reasonable suspicion exists to justify detaining the individual. If the individual is doing nothing else that arouses suspicion, simply wearing a gun will not justify a detention."This has and i promise will be the basis of his lawsuit as it has been used in other lawsuits before successfullyYup and seems they did that, the guy was just being difficult and an asshole in my opinion. What would have been maybe a few minutes ordeal now turns into this.......and for what? I obviously see things differently, and I would not have handled it like he did "thats me". Bet I would have shook hands with the officer and we would go our separate ways. Yeah open carry is legal, yeah it draws attention, yeah it can cause problems. Here is the cure, conceal carry if you have a CHL "no problem". This shit will continue to happen, and this shit will continue to draw unwanted attention for us carrying gun owners. That is the public eye we are in, it will not be changing anytime soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grapesmuggler27 Posted May 13, 2013 Report Share Posted May 13, 2013 So you can be detained legally for obstruction of justice? But this is worth 3.6 million? I got burned once by a hot french fry that had no warning on it, can I sue for $12 million? This fucktard needs to go away with no money. He is the reason the anti gunners have fuel. He is the reason why anti gunners hate guns. He maybe trying to prove a point but going about it all wrong. You hate the old lady who got millions for burning herself with hot coffee from Mcdonalds when she knew it was hot?Once again I ask you what are your rights worth? It might be an absurd price to you and me but its what HE thinks his rights are worth to him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedytriple Posted May 13, 2013 Report Share Posted May 13, 2013 Why would he give up a few moments of his time to save all this bad press? When he can be a dick and spread more bad press on gun control and gun laws. He is proving a point don't you see. By disrespecting local Leo and being disrespectful to them he is making it easier for us to carry a gun open or concealed. What is not so obvious? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pokey Posted May 13, 2013 Report Share Posted May 13, 2013 The issue is there was no reason to stop the gentleman. Did he commit a crime? He didn't have to say anything to the officers. That's his right. That's what its about. He was illegally detained and his weapon was illegally seized.They felt they had a reason, and I would have complied with their wishes and appeased them. Of course I would not be open carrying to begin with, this would have never even occurred were I him.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedytriple Posted May 13, 2013 Report Share Posted May 13, 2013 He should get a billion dollars for being a fuctard!! Why not ???? If I withhold info from the cops I should be paid. If I obstruct justice I should be paid! There are rights and there is trying to set up a lawsuit. Now if this guy never had any other issues with leo and was stopped and charged I would be on the other side of the fence. He is a d-bag looking to try to get paid for his rights being taken away by acting like a asshole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedytriple Posted May 13, 2013 Report Share Posted May 13, 2013 So if there was a fire and I was standing outside the building with my car parked a block away with a lighter in my hands and the cops stopped me, would I be with in my rights to tell them to piss off and not answer any questions they had? Would it be wrong for them to hold me for a few questions? Should I sue them for holding me? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWing'R Posted May 13, 2013 Report Share Posted May 13, 2013 I can understand both sides of the story. Personally, when I'm stopped I tell them I have CCW, and I'll tell them whether or not I'm carrying. If asked for an ID, I'll produce it, If I'm on the bike, the helmet comes off and the hands go where they can be seen, same if I'm in the car. I don't open carry now but I don't have a problem with those who do. If I did, I would not have a problem with the police asking for my ID. I don't feel my rights are infringed in any way by my behavior. Reading these posts, I may be wrong, but I've been stopped many times carrying and not carrying, in the car, on the bike. I've never been hassled, arrested, detained, held, searched, cuffed, relieved of my pistol, profiled, or questioned. I would think that if I did not provide my ID after being asked for it then I expect all the above would have happened to me.Finally someone who see my side. thanksRep to both of you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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