Open carry lawsuit out of Dayton.

[Tonik]

The officer does have a right to ask questions for public safety.

The officer does not have a right to detain you or question you unless he has a reasonable suspicion that a crime has been or is about to be committed. That is an absolute fact in Ohio. Google Terry vs Ohio.

So please stop saying that. It just isn't true. And as has been proven in court several times open carry is not reasonable suspicion. I know of several recent cases, one in Youngstown and one in Cuyahoga Falls where the cops and the city got creamed. In Cuyahoga Falls the dude was walking down the street with an AR on his back.

Now if you want to argue that the Terry law should be changed I will listen. If you want to argue that the dude was looking for a payday I will listen.

But continuing to debate that the officer was right to stop this guy is retarded.

[Pokey]

Call me a responsible gun owner then.....because my ID and my CHL will be with me when I am packing, and if I am being requested to show it by law enforcement I will. Do I have to be happy about it "NO", but this would have been a non issue and a much better happy ending had he just complied. Open carry simply is not the norm around most parts, and I think it is foolish to do so if just only for the obvious reason. Go walk around with a machete or a big axe and see if that doesnt draw unwanted attention as well, I see no difference legal or not.

[granda080]

Just out of curiosity, does it matter what the attendant that called in said? I get if they said there was someone in the store open carrying that there is nothing illegal. If the attendant said someone with a gun was "acting suspicious" would that garner "a crime about to happen"?

[Gunner75]

Open carry simply is not the norm around most parts, and I think it is foolish to do so if just only for the obvious reason.

Come around here, you'll see at least one oc an hour at each of the gas stations here, because that is the norm. Its not uncommon to see guys with AR's on their backs either. Because we have heavy coyote sightings all the time out here and they are getting bolder by coming into town and have snatched up a couple of dogs recently.

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[Gunner75]

The officer does not have a right to detain you or question you unless he has a reasonable suspicion that a crime has been or is about to be committed. That is an absolute fact in Ohio. Google Terry vs Ohio.

So please stop saying that. It just isn't true. And as has been proven in court several times open carry is not reasonable suspicion. I know of several recent cases, one in Youngstown and one in Cuyahoga Falls where the cops and the city got creamed. In Cuyahoga Falls the dude was walking down the street with an AR on his back.

Now if you want to argue that the Terry law should be changed I will listen. If you want to argue that the dude was looking for a payday I will listen.

But continuing to debate that the officer was right to stop this guy is retarded.

The sad shit about Terry stops is it gets used as the basis for stops now just to see if the individual has a weapon. By saying that the person looked suspicious and they believe that they were about to commit a crime

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Edited May 12, 2013 by Gunner75

[KZ900]

Call me a responsible gun owner then.....because my ID and my CHL will be with me when I am packing, and if I am being requested to show it by law enforcement I will. Do I have to be happy about it "NO", but this would have been a non issue and a much better happy ending had he just complied. Open carry simply is not the norm around most parts, and I think it is foolish to do so if just only for the obvious reason. Go walk around with a machete or a big axe and see if that doesnt draw unwanted attention as well, I see no difference legal or not.

It should be the norm. The Cop had an adjenda of his own that was against his and your rights. The guy filmed it. Had he not the Cop would have lied and the guy would be in jail for something or dead. Don't defend the Cop in the wrong. He should know the law and I am sure he did. He took his ego to a video shoot and is going to lose. That's why the charges were dropped. By the way..... Cops are public servants. The more freedom you give them the less you will have. You need to police the police.

[Gunner75]

I would love to see what our newly graduated lawyer has to say on this. I haven't seen him chime in

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[Tigerpaw]

Boy, this story would be all different if this "troublemaker" would've walked into that gas station while an armed robbery was taking place.

I'm for OC. I see it occasionally in my area. I don't freak out, I don't run looking for police to protect me, and I don't think the person carrying is an attention whore or about to commit mass murder. I don't have a concealed license. If I am scared enough to carry one of my firearms with me, its going to be on my hip in plain sight. Problem with that? Write your representatives.

He would have been asked for his ID by police, if he had used it properly during an armed robbery...

[Tigerpaw]

The Cop had an adjenda of his own that was against his and your rights.

What agenda did the cop have?

[Tigerpaw]

The officer does not have a right to detain you or question you unless he has a reasonable suspicion that a crime has been or is about to be committed.

They knew he drove there, but he would not provide an ID. It is illegal to drive with a loaded weapon, without your CHL. 2 + 2. He is either lying or had commited a crime. Aren't those reasons to dig deeper?

[KZ900]

What agenda did the cop have?

That he is God and you will do what he tells you too. And if you don't he will make the rules not you. Some Cops think they are above the law. I still say the video saved this guy's ass. What made the Cop ignore his rights? I say his God complex. He sure didn't care about his rights as he ignored them when he knew it.

[Tigerpaw]

Did you see a video of the discussed Riverside Speedway incident I missed?

Pretty big assumptions in this thread!

[Gunner75]

Did you see a video of the discussed Riverside Speedway incident I missed?

Pretty big assumptions in this thread!

I think your a lil Magley in training

[KZ900]

He went fishing for a bad cop and landed a lunker. Personally I think it's great. Maybe a 3.6 million dollar trophy cop. I would mount a picture of him above the mantle.

[Dying Shadow]

I bet that is a safe assumption.

Agreed lol

[Tigerpaw]

I think your a lil Magley in training

Not all of us live in the sticks, and carry our weapon around like some badge of honor. It is a weapon. Use it for it's purpose, or leave it at home. Fight political battles with words/education.

[Pokey]

That he is God and you will do what he tells you too. And if you don't he will make the rules not you. Some Cops think they are above the law. I still say the video saved this guy's ass. What made the Cop ignore his rights? I say his God complex. He sure didn't care about his rights as he ignored them when he knew it.

And so do citizens......

[4DAIVI PAI2K5]

The officer does not have a right to detain you or question you unless he has a reasonable suspicion that a crime has been or is about to be committed. That is an absolute fact in Ohio. Google Terry vs Ohio.

So please stop saying that. It just isn't true. And as has been proven in court several times open carry is not reasonable suspicion. I know of several recent cases, one in Youngstown and one in Cuyahoga Falls where the cops and the city got creamed. In Cuyahoga Falls the dude was walking down the street with an AR on his back.

Now if you want to argue that the Terry law should be changed I will listen. If you want to argue that the dude was looking for a payday I will listen.

But continuing to debate that the officer was right to stop this guy is retarded.

Not all of us live in the sticks, and carry our weapon around like some badge of honor. It is a weapon. Use it for it's purpose, or leave it at home. Fight political battles with words/education.

Its already legal to do what he was doing.

[Tonik]

They knew he drove there, but he would not provide an ID. It is illegal to drive with a loaded weapon, without your CHL. 2 + 2. He is either lying or had commited a crime. Aren't those reasons to dig deeper?

You are not paying attention.

They had NO right or standing to stop him or ask him ANYTHING. I said this early on, you are focused on what happened after the stop/detention. Nothing that cop learned or the guy did after the illegal stop occurred is even admissible in court.

Should the guy have lied, no. He should have refused to answer, refused to provide id and asked if he was free to go.

[Gunner75]

Not all of us live in the sticks, and carry our weapon around like some badge of honor. It is a weapon. Use it for it's purpose, or leave it at home. Fight political battles with words/education.

A badge of honor? Really? What retarded train did you fall from? I wear my weapon because its what puts me on an even slate to those who would do me or others harm. I live in a small town yes, because that is what I prefer, a small town has less crime.

[4DAIVI PAI2K5]

You are not paying attention.

They had NO right or standing to stop him or ask him ANYTHING. I said this early on, you are focused on what happened after the stop/detention. Nothing that cop learned or the guy did after the illegal stop occurred is even admissible in court.

Should the guy have lied, no. He should have refused to answer, refused to provide id and asked if he was free to go.

He didn't lie. His ID was not on his person. It was in the vehicle.

[SWing'R]

But he was within his rights and doing nothing illegal. Why should he have his right infringed on because he is in a bad neighborhood?

I'll never understand why people think being asked to show ID is

"having your rights infringed". These open carry situations that go

bad do so because people simply want to play games with the LEO's

and refuse to show ID. Just show the guy your damn id, he can make

sure you are not a felon and everybody can go about there business

...Those of you so willing to give up your rights that our

founding fathers and military all fought and still fight for, should be absolutely ashamed.

How is simply providing ID "giving up your right"??

Edited May 13, 2013 by SWing'R

[Tonik]

Not all of us live in the sticks, and carry our weapon around like some badge of honor. It is a weapon. Use it for it's purpose, or leave it at home. Fight political battles with words/education.

Do you have any idea of the history behind chl in Ohio? The only reason the state passed chl in Ohio is because people like this guy carried open in large organized events. Until there were a lot of those events the state never moved on chl. They did it finally because they the were tired of the press.

Do you know why Cleveland heights no longer has all their parks posted and no longer have a gun registry and a bunch of other bullshit gun laws? Because I and 60 other people had an open carry picnic on one off there parks and dared them to arrest us.

Then we all kicked in cash to sue the fuck out of them. We kicked their asses.

You are welcome.

[grapesmuggler27]

I'll never understand why people think being asked to show ID is

"having your rights infringed". These open carry situations that go

bad do so because people simply want to play games with the LEO's

and refuse to show ID. Just show the guy your damn id' date=' he can make

sure you are not a felon and everybody can go about there business [/quote']

What was the guy doing illegal that warrnted him to be stopped? If I'm doing something wrong the fine here is my ID. Like has been said I don't know the guy he could be a huge douche or a great person who cares he was within his rights and was grabbing a drink while OC.

[Gunner75]

I'll never understand why people think being asked to show ID is

"having your rights infringed".

Because the supreme court has ruled many times that unless a citizen is deemed to be under suspicion of about to' date=' or have already committed a crime that the need to ID is against the persons privacy. [/b']

These open carry situations that go

bad do so because people simply want to play games with the LEO's

and refuse to show ID.

Most of these OC situations go bad due to poor knowledge on the laws of LEO, and they take that a citizens knowledge of their rights to be a personal disrespect on them and they act like assholes because of it.

Just show the guy your damn id, he can make

sure you are not a felon and everybody can go about there business

If you want to be a sheep and allow the police to violate your rights that are set forth by the bill or rights, and have been confirmed by the supreme court many times then so be it, that is your choice. Just dont come crying to others for support because you were to damn ignorant of the law.

there