Michael Brown shooting

[redkow97]

The police unions have allowed the bad cops to keep their jobs for a long time. 

 

I honestly don't know how good LEO's tolerate it.  I understand that they look at Joe Cop and think, "man, that guy beat the shit out of an unarmed protestor  ...If I did that, I'd want the union to help me keep my job."   What I don't understand at all is why they don't think, "hey! that a-hole was beating the shit out of an unarmed protestor! This kind of shit is what gives police officers a bad rep.  fire his ass!"

 

It's the assumption that they'll be the one in trouble some day that leads them to protect their own when they don't deserve it.  Sounds mildly paranoid, but such is the world in which we live...

[Tpoppa]

The police unions have allowed the bad cops to keep their jobs for a long time. 

 

I honestly don't know how good LEO's tolerate it.  I understand that they look at Joe Cop and think, "man, that guy beat the shit out of an unarmed protestor  ...If I did that, I'd want the union to help me keep my job."   What I don't understand at all is why they don't think, "hey! that a-hole was beating the shit out of an unarmed protestor! This kind of shit is what gives police officers a bad rep.  fire his ass!"

 

It's the assumption that they'll be the one in trouble some day that leads them to protect their own when they don't deserve it.  Sounds mildly paranoid, but such is the world in which we live...

 

I think that is pretty accurate.

 

If a cop was right or wrong, other cops & the union will protect them.  That does nothing to benefit citizens.

[RCBS]

As long as all the officers got home safe...that's all that matters anyways, right?

[John]

The police unions have allowed the bad cops to keep their jobs for a long time. 

 

I honestly don't know how good LEO's tolerate it.  I understand that they look at Joe Cop and think, "man, that guy beat the shit out of an unarmed protestor  ...If I did that, I'd want the union to help me keep my job."   What I don't understand at all is why they don't think, "hey! that a-hole was beating the shit out of an unarmed protestor! This kind of shit is what gives police officers a bad rep.  fire his ass!"

 

It's the assumption that they'll be the one in trouble some day that leads them to protect their own when they don't deserve it.  Sounds mildly paranoid, but such is the world in which we live...

 

if they tolerate stuff like that, then they aren't "good" LEOs. they are just as bad. 

[Casper]

I think that is pretty accurate.

 

If a cop was right or wrong, other cops & the union will protect them.  That does nothing to benefit citizens.

 

But we mustn't speak ill of unions...

[ReconRat]

A street riot is very fluid. It can move and be where you are very quickly. Bad behavior by everyone is typical. Anyone not wearing a uniform and gear becomes the bad guy. And ignoring orders to move or disperse won't go well. Members of the press are not an exception unless escorted and then still subject to the same orders.

 

Everything will be calm and cool, and then suddenly go completely nutz. Yeah, I've seen a few.

[Tpoppa]

If the eye witness accounts are true...

 

This all started because of jay walking.  Really???

 

The first shot that was fired was when Brown was running away, and presumeably struck him in the back.

Brown then turned around with hands raised in the air, then the officer continued firing until Brown fell to the ground and died.

 

How is this anything other than a murder?  If he was running away there was no threat to the officer.  There are no accounts of Brown theatening any one else that the officer could claim he was trying to protect.

 

I'll bet the officer will claim that shots were fired in self defense, other officers (who weren't there) will swear it's the truth. 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AlMjhoYPmZ8

[cOoTeR]

The statement I read from the police was Brown and another subject had shoved the cop back into the cruiser and we're trying to take his weapon. One round was fired in the cruiser according to their statement. If the statement is true and accurate it contradicts the witness statements put out by the press. I have a feeling that this will play out the same as the Trayvon/Zimmerman case and the cop will be found to be justified in shooting. But jumping to the conclusion that the cop pulled up and jumped Brown for j-walking then shot based on only the accounts of witnesses who could be dishonest would be irresponsible. The riots and protests are not helping anything just distracting from other issues around the world. If it actually went down as the witnesses say then I agree the cop should and will be punished. But if it shakes out that the witness statements are untrue or inaccurate then I think there should be an eye opening for the media to quit stirring the pot until the whole story is told. If you really think about it why in the world would a cop just roll up to somebody and shoot them without any reason? It really doesn't make sense.

Edited August 15, 2014 by cOoTeR

[cOoTeR]

With all the complaining about how the police are handling this I think they should take a night off and do what the people complaining want, nothing. Let them see how it will play out giving the rioters free rein to do what ever they want.

[Tpoppa]

With all the complaining about how the police are handling this I think they should take a night off and do what the people complaining want, nothing. Let them see how it will play out giving the rioters free rein to do what ever they want.

The local police have been removed from the situation by the Governor.  Missouri State Troopers are taking over to try to calm things down.

Edited August 15, 2014 by Tpoppa

[Tpoppa]

The statement I read from the police was Brown and another subject had shoved the cop back into the cruiser and we're trying to take his weapon. 

 

If that is true, which I don't believe for a second.  It would be the first time I've even heard of a jay walker trying to reach into a police vehicle & take a service weapon from an officer.  Implausible to say the least.  That also doesn't agree with reports of the officer shooting Brown when he was running away.

 

I would imagine back at the station the brother officers made sure there were some visible signs of struggle.  Perhaps some marks on the officer that they could photograph to help corroborate his story. 

 

Read this:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/03/opinion/sunday/why-police-officers-lie-under-oath.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

Edited August 15, 2014 by Tpoppa

[mattm]

H

Edited August 15, 2014 by mattm

[mattm]

http://www.ksdk.com/story/news/local/2014/08/14/crews-hit-with-bean-bags-tear-gas/14042747/

https://i.imgur.com/YMB8shl.jpg

Where is the link from rt.com? Why aren't we linking to the most awesomest libertarian site funded and directed by the Kremlin anymore? If I don't see an rt.com link how am I supposed to determine Obama propaganda vs real news? I'm pretty sure that imgur is an Obama plot. Edited August 15, 2014 by mattm

[Gump]

I am a law abiding person with the exception of being a compulsive speeder on 2 wheels. But, the older I get the more distrustful I am of police.

Police corruption has been unchecked for far too long. Violation of civil rights has become standard operating preceedure for many departments. There are certainly good officers out there, but the number of bad ones is higher than anyone is willing to admit. And how are you supposed if the ones you are dealing with are good or bad?

I am distrustful of police. I would be genuinely fearful if I were a young, black male.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/family-ohio-man-fatally-shot-cops-walmart-store-security-video-article-1.1900809

Ohio man killed by police at Wal Mart for carrying a BB gun. Yes, this was a BB gun sold at Wal Mart. The man was buying it when killed. Oh, and he was black.

Common term associated with cops taking the witness stand is testalie.

[Bad324]

I don't care what the reason is for anyone to riot. There is NO good reason IMO and dealing with rioters with necessary force should be deemed legal

[cOoTeR]

If that is true, which I don't believe for a second.  It would be the first time I've even heard of a jay walker trying to reach into a police vehicle & take a service weapon from an officer.  Implausible to say the least.  That also doesn't agree with reports of the officer shooting Brown when he was running away.

 

I would imagine back at the station the brother officers made sure there were some visible signs of struggle.  Perhaps some marks on the officer that they could photograph to help corroborate his story. 

 

Read this:

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/03/opinion/sunday/why-police-officers-lie-under-oath.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

If it happened that way it shouldn't be to hard to prove especially if there was a dash cam going in the car. It should have the audio of what happened. Also the statement said a round was fired inside the cruiser. Which shouldn't be to hard to prove. Unless there is a huge conspiracy that all police are evil and out committing genocide and now the other police men are currently acting out a bs scenario to make a cover up like you seem to assume is the way it works. I still stand by the oponion for the police to stay off the street, not bring in another police force and let the riots play out. Then all these people saying how evil police are will see why they need to be around breaking up the riots. There are a lot of what ifs in the situation and when the whole truth comes out I wouldn't be surprised if people who automatically jumped to conclusions based on race realize they are wrong. Jumping to the conclusion that the cop is automatically wrong just because he is a cop and most cops are liars is as immature as racism.

[Bad324]

Also I don't understand why the hell the inner city's response to things is always rioting. Yea let's go ahead and make our shitty ghetto even shittier

[ScubaCinci]

If they wanted to shoot Mike Brown, I wish they would've started in Cincinnati.

[Tpoppa]

The Governor removing the local police from the situation isn't exactly a vote of confidence that they knew wha the hell they were doing.  Military and security experts also spoke up and said the local police tactics were escalating the situation, not solving it.

 

Even if you belive police usually do the right thing, it's pretty clear they f'd up this time and then made the situation even worse.

 

I'm sure if a cop killed your friend or family member over jay walking, your opinion would be different. 

[redkow97]

Police officers are human beings.  I completely understand that when a suspect struggles with them, allegedly reaches for their firearm, and basically makes their job more difficult and more dangerous, they are going to be pissed off. 

 

I also understand that their anger may get the better of them, and lead to retaliatory actions.  But mistakes are mistakes, and all actions have consequences.  Again, assuming the reports are accurate, it sounds like this officer's actions should result in loss of his job permanently, and loss of his freedom for a significant number of years.  Having an explanation for a mistake doesn't excuse it.

[Tpoppa]

Police officers are human beings.  I completely understand that when a suspect struggles with them, allegedly reaches for their firearm, and basically makes their job more difficult and more dangerous, they are going to be pissed off. 

 

I agree with what you are saying.  You know as well as I, actually you probably know more so...When a cop does something out of line, like a questionable shooting, their standard practice is say whatever is necessary to cover their ass.

 

I felt threatened...it appeared he was reaching for his weapon...he attempted to grab my weapon, blah blah bah.  True or not, the goal is to create a enough doubt that the officer faces no legal consequences and  keeps his job.  Fact:  juries believe cops.  Fact:  cops lying under oath has been well documented.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/03/opinion/sunday/why-police-officers-lie-under-oath.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

[ScubaCinci]

I agree with what you are saying.  You know as well as I, actually you probably know more so...When a cop does something out of line, like a questionable shooting, their standard practice is say whatever is necessary to cover their ass.

How is that different from just about any other person who's guilty of whatever they crime are being accused of? Most will do anything to deflect the guilt to avoid repercussions, the least of which is lying. I wouldn't put it past witnesses to lie either (or at least be mileadingly biased) for whatever personal agenda they may be harboring.

 

Not saying it's right but why expect cops to stick to a higher standard than anyone else including politicians, military officers, or even the average Joe?

[Tpoppa]

How is that different from just about any other person who's guilty of whatever they crime are being accused of? Most will do anything to deflect the guilt to avoid repercussions, the least of which is lying. I wouldn't put it past witnesses to lie either (or at least be mileadingly biased) for whatever personal agenda they may be harboring.

 

Not saying it's right but why expect cops to stick to a higher standard than anyone else including politicians, military officers, or even the average Joe?

Seriously?  Well for starters police officers are sworn to uphold the law.  Civilians are not.  Police are afforded a good amount of authority, based on being sworn to uphold the law. 

[ScubaCinci]

So are soldiers/officers, politicians, judges, etc, etc and they are caught in lies all the time. Be real, it's human nature, it happens. You can't say that their "standard practice" is to cover it up as some sort of premeditated plan.

[Tpoppa]

You can't say that their "standard practice" is to cover it up as some sort of premeditated plan.

I think I just did.  But to clarify, I am not saying the act was premeditated.  I am saying when an officer does something questionable, they already know what to do because they are already inside the system.  Don't be naive. 

 

Edit:  Judges should be held to a much higher standard.  Military standards are already higher.  I've given up on politicians. 

Edited August 15, 2014 by Tpoppa