Taking stock of my 1st year riding - the accidents.

[Phreon]

Most everyone says, "There are two types of riders, those who have crashed, and those who will". I have a year and a couple months under my belt. I took the MSF class, have tried to be careful, practice quick stops, go to the parking lot to practice on occasion, ride defensively, but have had 3 mishaps so far in the the past year / 4000 miles or so.

 

1) Got the NH 750 mainly because it was available and cheap. Looking back, I definitely moved to the bigger machine too soon. I was in KY this spring following my friend on his DR650 and got lulled into following him instead of picking my own lines. Went into a sweeping left leading directly into decreasing radius right. He trail braked into the right turn - I was too close, had no chance of slowing down and getting the top heavy 750 to chicane fast enough and ran wide across the lane into a berm. I kept the bike upright, but had a car been coming, I'd be chum. I had no business taking that machine on those roads so soon after getting it.

 

2) Same bike, a slow speed sharp left. Didn't see the oil scum patch and went down. Should have been keeping my eye on pavement condition better. Busted my knee a little, blackened a pinky, but was fine.  Gear did the job

 

3) A couple weeks ago, after changing the front pads on my Vulcan 500, went to bed them in on a quiet street in my neighborhood. They locked and stayed locked. It was dark, I didn't see the scum/tar snake and *stupidly* didn't check the fluid level. Contusion on my left tibia, sore shoulder and a ruined helmet (impact of the chin bar).  Gear did the job.

 

I love riding, want to dust myself off, learn from my mistakes and press on, but can't help but think, "Should I"?  I waited until later in life (40) mainly because, yes, I was an aggressive driver. I used to get tickets all the time.  In flight training, we learned 200 to about 600 hours experience is the most dangerous because you feel experienced and confident, but aren't yet.  I have a feeling that's where I am now on the motorcycles - as I mentioned, I have about a year and 4000 miles under my belt.

 

Any sage wisdom? I'd appreciate it.

 

 

 

 

[Tpoppa]

Here is some wisdom:   watch this video a bunch of times.  Better yet buy the book and the DVD and go over them a bunch more times.  As a newer rider you won't be able to apply all the concepts or even understand them at first.  But each time you watch it you should be able to pick out 1 or 2 things and apply them to your riding.

 

 

Also, ride with some experienced riders that will discuss technique with you.

Track days are a good idea, but I'll leave that topic to the track guys.

[Tigerpaw]

Ride more miles! Make muscle memory.  The bike can do it, you can do it.  These apprehensions are all in your head.  The problem is the nut in the middle of the bars(yoke).

 

You sound like you are taking responsibility for your mistakes and learning.  Better than most riders, right there.

 

+1 on Twist of the wrist/Keith Code

Edited October 1, 2014 by Tigerpaw

[Josh1234]

part of me says "live and learn."  If you feel the passion for riding, then be thankful that none of these mishaps were major ones.

 

The first was really not a "mishap" so much as a "let me take a deep breath and think about that for a moment."  Things like that teach caution.  But I don't like hearing " I had no business taking that machine on those roads so soon after getting it."  That, to me, says you're blaming the bike, when I think it was rider error.  You followed his lines, you had the wrong entry speed, you didn't trail brake like he did, etc.  That can happen no matter what bike you're on.  In any event, hopefully the only lasting thing that came of that was a voice in the back of you reminding reminding you to be careful, that's all.  

 

#2 was just a shitty deal... There's going to be oil spots and tar snakes and a zillion and one other things.  They're gonna happen.  All you can do is wear your gear and get back on.  Seems like you've passed both tests, there.

 

#3 is part of the learning curve of going from a car driver to motorcycle rider.  It's new maintenance that isn't exactly the same as we've been doing it.  

 

I feel the same way you do, often, when I wonder if motorcycling is right for me, but so far, I've always decided that the pros outweigh the cons.  That could change at any time, and it requires constant reevaluation.  

 

It sounds like you're having a crisis of faith, and I'll support either decision you make, but ultimately, it's your decision

 

If every ride isn't a joy ride... then you're doing something wrong.  

[redkow97]

Hit up the beginner group with STT or MotoSeries. 

 

Yeah, it's on a track, but especially at Nelson Ledges, you're going to be on street-like road surfaces, and the muscle-memory can be really helpful.   You and the bike are both capable of a lot more than you probably realize.  You'll get 50+ chances at every corner, at speeds you would (or should) never choose on the street.  I think of it like taking warm-up swings with 2 bats - when you go back to 1 bat (i.e. reduce speeds to road-legal levels) everything feels easier by comparison.   If you can brake hard from 100+ on a race track, you should feel a lot more comfortable braking from 75+ on the highway in an emergency.

 

What you (hopefully) won't get to practice on a race track is avoiding obstacles at 40 mph in traffic, and/or dealing with unseen road hazards.   Other than practicing spotting such things, dirt riding is probably the best way to get used to situations where loss of traction is inevitable.  That said, your 750 is never going to be a 200 lbs. dirty bike...   Still can't hurt.  And it's fun. 

[bloodninja420]

#2 and #3 seem like kind of freak things.

 

Regarding #1: I also have a little over 1 year riding experience under my belt and my biggest takeaway is this – the bike is always capable of cornering harder than I initially give it credit for. As long as you do your part** the bike isn’t going to simply lowside out of nowhere.

 

**Do your part meaning get on the gas early and push the inside bar Hard if you go in too hot. A very helpful body position cue for me has been “kiss the inside mirror” while looking through the turn. Also have good tires— you don’t want them to be the cause of any doubt in the back of your mind.

 

I think both you and I need to hit the track in order to take things to the next level.

[Phreon]

The Nighthawk 750 got pretty bent up (not frame, but bars, lights, tank, exhaust), so I've been back on the Vulcan 500 as I slowly fix it. Though the Nighthawk technically is faster/more powerful and can lean deeper, the Vulcan is more predictable, lighter, feels peppier and surprisingly, is way more nimble.  Could I take the 500 (small cruiser) to a basic track day class? It takes quite a bit of lean to get the pegs to kiss, for a cruiser. I'm not looking to race, just get experience.

 

I have watched Twist of the Wrist a couple times. It has helped, for sure.

Edited October 1, 2014 by Phreon

[Josh1234]

 

I think both you and I need to hit the track in order to take things to the next level.

 

In.  I'd definitely be down for a track day that's targeted at developing skills, and not just racing or going as fast as possible.

[Phreon]

As for my "no business" comment, I meant, "It would have been smarter to get more experience with the new bike before getting aggressive with it, a heavier, more powerful machine. I'm much more comfortable on the Vulcan 500 LTD. The LTD is a surprisingly flickable little cruiser - the Nighthawk feels like a heifer in comparison.

[Tpoppa]

The Vulcan 500 is one of the more fun cruisers I have ever ridden.  It uses a version of the Ninja 500 motor and is quicker than some of the larger cruising bikes.

[Phreon]

The Vulcan 500 is one of the more fun cruisers I have ever ridden.  It uses a version of the Ninja 500 motor and is quicker than some of the larger cruising bikes.

 

 

 

Yes, it is.... 

Edited October 1, 2014 by Phreon

[Gixxus Christ!]

The nighthawk may need a bit more input on the bars because of its weight but should have a tighter rake and trail than the vulcan, meaning it is capable of turning in faster depending on wheelbase. Many variables control how flickable a bike feels, tire width and diameter, rake, trail, fork compression, wheelbase, back tire width, tread style and tire composition, psi in tires, width and pullback of bars.....the honda is capable of some pretty amazing shit for a bike it's size and weight, provided it's got a confident and competent rider in the saddle. Get it road worthy and take it to the track. If by the end of a novice day you're not competent and confident on it, it's not the bike for you. You can track a cruiser I guess...when I had my 1100 shadow I used to flog it into the turns like a sport bike...hard to get good body position with forward controls but I pushed that heavy sled through some pretty good turns. Keep at it if you love it. If your doubts are such that it shakes your confidence and you're doing more worrying than smiling inside that helmet, it may be time for a new hobby.

[Phreon]

The Nighthawk has *much* heavier steering than than the little Vulcan. The first time I got it on the highway, I felt like I was fighting it to get around curves. I got used to it, but always feels overtly heavy. Actually, that has been a big question in my mind, "How hard can I press the bars?".  I don't want to find out "too far" by putting the bike down. It's an entirely different feel with the different position and higher CG.

 

 

Generally, riding puts a huge smile on my face. Just going for a lazy "point that direction and get lost" cruise, going down to KY 10 / KY 22 or taking a road/camping trip are an amazing time. Even the crap, highway ride to work and back is at least a much nicer way to bookend the work day than being stuck in my POS car.  Because of life, $$$, etc., I'm probably not going to get to fly any time soon - motorcycling is a pretty damned awesome "runner up".

 

I can't say I'm having a doubt crisis so much as, "Am I doing it right" or "Am I screwing up more/worse than the average new rider" moment? 

 

Thanks

Edited October 1, 2014 by Phreon

[Phreon]

Damn I hate the limit on editing!!!   Yes, I'm interested in basic track training, BTW.  At the moment, the Vulcan is ridable, the 'Hawk is not. Anything semi-close to SW Ohio?

[Phreon]

I had to look up the numbers, it's the engineer in me. They say the NH has sportier geometry, right? Too bad no manufacturer lists the center of gravity.  Can't argue with the numbers, they just reinforce my inexperience...

 

Nighthawk 750

 

Wheelbase: 59.3

Curb wt: 498

Seat Ht: 30.7"

Ground Clearance: 5.5

Rake: 29

Trail: 4.6"

 

Vulcan 500 LTD

 

Wheelbase: 62.8"

Curb wt: 471

Seat Ht: 28.1"

Ground Clearance: 4.7"

Rake: 33

Trail: 5.9"

Edited October 1, 2014 by Phreon

[Anden]

No you are not screwing up more or worse than a new rider. It is what it is. I couldn't tell you the number of mistakes I've made. I just try to recognize them and correct them as best I can. But also having people that are going to be dependant on me for life keeps me from going full moron on the bike to. Hence I need to do a track day. I don't want to find the line I just want to get real close to it.

[Gixxus Christ!]

I used to ride at the edge of my abilities. 3 wrecks in 2 years cured me of that...I'm not nearly as aggressive a rider as I used to be. The wife is happy about that. I still have my fun but I don't push it like I used to.

[gsxkat1100]

I used to ride at the edge of my abilities. 3 wrecks in 2 years cured me of that...I'm not nearly as aggressive a rider as I used to be. The wife is happy about that. I still have my fun but I don't push it like I used to.

 

Yeah, you only like to mess with newer riders that have never rode with you to make them look slow.

[redkow97]

I have seen bikes far less capable than the Vulcan 500 or the Nighthawk 750 in the beginner group with both clubs I mentioned.  It is not about going as fast as possible, learning the skills and techniques is what makes going fast(er) possible to do more safely.  The going faster part is optional, but tends to be a byproduct of improved skill.

 

It should not be an issue to be placed in one of the less aggressive novice groups and spend the day working on skills rather than outright speed.  Frankly, that's probably a much better process, but reigning in a bunch of excited first-timers with purpose-built sportbikes under them is no easy task for even the best organization and instructors

 

I just saw that the OP is in Cincy, so Nelson would be a pretty long drive for an underwhelming track, but I really think that would be the cheapest option, and closest to a "street" experience. 

[Gixxus Christ!]

Yeah, you only like to mess with newer riders that have never rode with you to make them look slow.

I just wanted to pass a busa on one wheel after destroying it in the twisties....

[Strictly Street]

The Nighthawk has *much* heavier steering than than the little Vulcan. The first time I got it on the highway, I felt like I was fighting it to get around curves. I got used to it, but always feels overtly heavy. Actually, that has been a big question in my mind, "How hard can I press the bars?".  I don't want to find out "too far" by putting the bike down. It's an entirely different feel with the different position and higher CG.

 

 

Don't discount tires for effecting the "Feel" of the bike in turns. Including how easy it is to flick them into and out of a turn.

My older 750 got over this feeling with a new set of Avon tires instead of a mis-matched set of-who-knows-what-no-brand and a Shinko from the last guy that owned it.

[Phreon]

Don't discount tires for effecting the "Feel" of the bike in turns. Including how easy it is to flick them into and out of a turn.

My older 750 got over this feeling with a new set of Avon tires instead of a mis-matched set of-who-knows-what-no-brand and a Shinko from the last guy that owned it.

 

Hmm... It's currently wearing Metzler 880s. Slightly oversized at that to make 'em fit, I believe. Previous owner put them on.

[Strictly Street]

Hmm... It's currently wearing Metzler 880s. Slightly oversized at that to make 'em fit, I believe. Previous owner put them on.

 

Metzler's aren't bad tires.

 

Not wanting to start a "Which-is-better" tire war which is just like a "Which-is-better" oil war or any other "Which-is-better" war.

 

Next time you need tires you might want to consider styles, sizes and brands.

Over sized tires should make it more stable on the highway and less fun in the turns.

All depends on where you want to ride the most.

[Phreon]

The 750 is in no need of being *more stable* on the highway! I feel like a pygmy guiding and elephant riding it on the slab.

[DerekClouser]

What Tpoppa said is great information. Twist of the wrist II is a great video to watch.  I watch this once a year at the beginning on the year and try focus on trying to implement 1 or 2 things into my riding.

 

The one thing I didn't see on here that may add to this conversation is that 4k miles is not near enough experience.  I've been riding since I was 21 (I'm 29 now) and I average 8-9k miles a year.  About 2 years ago, I really started focusing on the twisties in southern Ohio and long rides.  I'm still constantly learning new and better techniques that allow me to go faster and smoother. Just know that you have A TON more to learn and if you ever stop learning and evaluating your riding, then would be the time to stop riding.