MichaelS Posted September 17, 2015 Report Share Posted September 17, 2015 Freedom of Religion, another constitutionally protected right that does not have mandatory training classes that has killed boatloads of people. The Catholics and their Crusades's, the Muslims and their Jihad or whatever they are doing? Religion has killed millions yet we don't require any training for that. And I am still waiting for someone give me some statistics where licensed CHL holders have committed a statistically significant number of accidental murders. That's the problem with the anti-2nd amendment nuts. They spout out all this bullshit about unsafe gun owners but when you look at the numbers you find out they are full of shit. And that the gun show loophole accounts for pretty much none of the illegally used guns on the streets, further filling them up with shit. And that the fucking homicide rate in the US is currently at a damn near ONE HUNDRED YEAR LOW.You keep bringing up completely ridiculous examples. Quit being an asshat. Is it so wrong to want people that are carrying a lethal weapon to know what the hell they are doing with it in public? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubba Posted September 17, 2015 Report Share Posted September 17, 2015 How many people have these people killed or wounded since then? Tonik: Maybe you misunderstood my initial post. I'm not advocating against CCL issuance, nor against freedom of individual gun ownership. I'm merely stating that--as someone who considers himself pretty much a rank beginner as far as handgun experience--my one year of ownership and minimal classroom training and range practice made me look like the Sundance Kid as far as skills were concerned. That should concern even the most ardent gun rights advocate. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonik Posted September 17, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 17, 2015 You keep bringing up completely ridiculous examples. Quit being an asshat. Is it so wrong to want people that are carrying a lethal weapon to know what the hell they are doing with it in public? I will never quite being an asshat. It's what I do. Third and last time I am going to ask before I go ballistic. Please show me that there is an actual problem with CHL holders. Show me some statistically significant numbers that people carrying lethal weapons in public are killing people by accident. Let me save you some time googling, there isn't any. Yea, there are a few dumbasses that have messed up, but the numbers are minuscule. I categorically reject your attempt to restrict my rights, or put additional burdens on me for something that only happens in your head. And that is why I come up with completely ridiculous examples. I am answering your completely ridiculous concern in kind. I may be an asshat, but I am a clever well read asshat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubba Posted September 17, 2015 Report Share Posted September 17, 2015 Some additional points of clarification for discussion: I have already taken classes on Introduction to Handgun Safety and Basic Handgun Training. Pretty much right straight out of the "NRA Guide to the Basics of Pistol Shooting" handbook. What I THOUGHT I was gonna get as far as training in my CCL class was 1) a basic education with regard to state law of the legalities of concealed carry in Ohio as well as at least a basic overview of CCL laws in other states; 2) at least a very brief and basic training on different styles and techniques of holster carry, safe ways to unholster and reholster my weapon; 3) at least some overview of the responsibilities and obligations that go with the right to hold a CCL. None of that was covered in any way. Ideally, for a new gun user like me, some very basic training to a simulated threat scenario would be even more helpful to help develop the mental processes for thoughtful and appropriate reaction to a threat. The reason I say this is that I don't have a military background--as I presume many of the gun rights advocates on OhioRiders have--and based on the minimal level of training received thru this class, I'm honestly not sure I will feel 100% comfortable about carrying, which tells me that I probably shouldn't. I know there are academies that offer more advanced self-defense courses and I may avail myself of these, but that doesn't solve the bigger issue of under-qualified and under-trained handgun users carrying in public. Thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonik Posted September 17, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 17, 2015 but that doesn't solve the bigger issue of under-qualified and under-trained handgun users carrying in public. Thoughts? I think you are making shit up. For example in Florida.Number of Licenses Issued (since 10/01/87): 1,290,110Number of Active Licenses: 463,760Crimes by CCW holder w/ firearm used (since 10/01/87): 164 or 0.012%Innocent bystanders shot: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubba Posted September 17, 2015 Report Share Posted September 17, 2015 I think you are making shit up. Dude, you are one seriously excitable fella. I'm not "making shit up"....merely voicing concern based on my experience. Mea culpa. Or as Emily Litella would say, "Oh, that's very different....nevermind." 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbot Posted September 17, 2015 Report Share Posted September 17, 2015 someone should mandate training classes on arguing on the internet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonik Posted September 17, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 17, 2015 ....merely voicing concern based on my experience. Ok, fair enough. I will calm down. Based on your experience how many CHL holders have you seen accidentally shoot someone, or how many have you read about? Honestly, I want to know what the problem is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubba Posted September 17, 2015 Report Share Posted September 17, 2015 someone should mandate training classes on arguing on the internet. jbot: Not gonna happen. The internet is the "New Frontier"....kind'a like Dogde City in the early 1800s. Ok, fair enough. I will calm down. Based on your experience how many CHL holders have you seen accidentally shoot someone, or how many have you read about? Honestly, I want to know what the problem is. Done. Sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue03636 Posted September 17, 2015 Report Share Posted September 17, 2015 Every class I have seen is basically the NRA basic pistol class with the addition of law which usually took about 20 min. They expect you to do your homework on the law here and in other states. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubba Posted September 17, 2015 Report Share Posted September 17, 2015 Yup. I'm aware of that now...wish I'd known. Not clear why they get an extra $60-65 more than the 3-hr Basic Handgun class for the CCL class except a certificate to show the Sheriff's office. Maybe it was a more comprehensive course when it was the 12-hour format. There was zero coverage of any law info in my class. Obviously, I plan on doing my homework. Hope the rest of the class does as well.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScubaCinci Posted September 17, 2015 Report Share Posted September 17, 2015 Bill, where are you taking the class - Point Blank on your side of town? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue03636 Posted September 17, 2015 Report Share Posted September 17, 2015 Yup. I'm aware of that now...wish I'd known. Not clear why they get an extra $60-65 more than the 3-hr Basic Handgun class for the CCL class except a certificate to show the Sheriff's office. Maybe it was a more comprehensive course when it was the 12-hour format. There was zero coverage of any law info in my class. Obviously, I plan on doing my homework. Hope the rest of the class does as well.... The basic pistol should be 8 hours and I believe the price depends on where you take it. When I took mine it was 12 hours but virtually the same price as the basic pistol. Hit up kawikid on here, tell him how gay he is and then sign up for one of their classes for additional training. You won't be disappointed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magley64 Posted September 17, 2015 Report Share Posted September 17, 2015 And these newbs are the "good ones" that are getting trained. They recently lowered the training time requirement for number of hours to recieve a ccw.These people could legally open carry their weapons with none of this training whatsoever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbot Posted September 17, 2015 Report Share Posted September 17, 2015 i'll use your mom as a meat shield, you snooty motherfucker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonik Posted September 17, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 17, 2015 Lol, IP and Mags on the same side. That is epic.Missouri is a shall issue state. No training. The chl holders hit the bad guys with 83 percent of the rounds the fired.The highly trained State Police who are trained to shoot and handle stress only hit the mark 68 percent of the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magley64 Posted September 18, 2015 Report Share Posted September 18, 2015 I'm not on anyone's side either, I just find it absolutely hilarious that other people have observed people who are perfectly legal to carry a concealed weapon, but in all honesty have no business doing so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad324 Posted September 18, 2015 Report Share Posted September 18, 2015 (edited) I'm not on anyone's side either, I just find it absolutely hilarious that other people have observed people who are perfectly legal to carry a concealed weapon, but in all honesty have no business doing so.same goes for drivers licenses... Edited September 18, 2015 by Bad324 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonik Posted September 18, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 18, 2015 Finally, someone gets it. Last year 32,000 people were accidentally killed by cars. There were 606 accidental deaths by guns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad324 Posted September 18, 2015 Report Share Posted September 18, 2015 (edited) my sister shouldn't have ever been able to get a drivers license. Literally the worst driver ever. She's such a bad driver she has to move to Europe where she never needs a car. Has killed or injured nobody Edited September 18, 2015 by Bad324 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magley64 Posted September 18, 2015 Report Share Posted September 18, 2015 same goes for drivers licenses...Hell yes, don't get me started on shitty drivers. I'm excited for self driving cars so the dickwads who would rather not drive won't have to anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelS Posted September 18, 2015 Report Share Posted September 18, 2015 I will never quite being an asshat. It's what I do. Third and last time I am going to ask before I go ballistic. Please show me that there is an actual problem with CHL holders. Show me some statistically significant numbers that people carrying lethal weapons in public are killing people by accident. Let me save you some time googling, there isn't any. Yea, there are a few dumbasses that have messed up, but the numbers are minuscule. I categorically reject your attempt to restrict my rights, or put additional burdens on me for something that only happens in your head. And that is why I come up with completely ridiculous examples. I am answering your completely ridiculous concern in kind. I may be an asshat, but I am a clever well read asshat.Well I think you are making shit up. For example in Florida.Number of Licenses Issued (since 10/01/87): 1,290,110Number of Active Licenses: 463,760Crimes by CCW holder w/ firearm used (since 10/01/87): 164 or 0.012%Innocent bystanders shot: 0 I am quite certain that 164 > 0. So it isn't "just in my head." And cry me a river about your poor little rights. I am not strictly talking about "Accidental" shootings. Intentional are the more likely happening with people carrying. And don't get me started on how you conveniently leave out a significant part of the second amendment to suit your needs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Butters Posted September 18, 2015 Report Share Posted September 18, 2015 Arizona is constitutional carry... No permits required, and people aren't out gunning each other down on accident every day... I kinda agree with Tonik, it's just not a "real" problem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue03636 Posted September 18, 2015 Report Share Posted September 18, 2015 And don't get me started on how you conveniently leave out a significant part of the second amendment to suit your needs. Oh god, this should be good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonik Posted September 18, 2015 Author Report Share Posted September 18, 2015 Well And don't get me started on how you conveniently leave out a significant part of the second amendment to suit your needs. Earlier you lectured me about the law regarding abortions/fetus's and the law. Let me know how we should proceed on this discussion of the constitution, are we going with a literal translation as you did in the quote above, or are we going with an intent interpretation as decided by the Supreme Court? Choose carefully. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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