A fence along the Mexican border will never keep the illegals out.

[Tonik]

Waste of time and money.

 

 

http://news.yahoo.com/hungary-says-migrant-influx-stops-114617312.html

[Bad324]

I'm an asshole so I'm not opposed to a wall

But why is there so much emphasis on either keeping them out or kicking the ones here already out? Wouldn't it be a lot cheaper and more prudent to the health of the country to make them legal tax paying citizens?

Is there something I am missing with that line of thinking?

[Tonik]

If we need more immigrants, cool. Up the quotas and have them go through the process.  And I do think we need to dramatically up the quotas, it's great for the economy and is one of the foundations of our country. But for the record kicking them out won't cost much.  Make it a felony with mandatory time in the Federal Pound You in The Ass prison for hiring an illegal.  They won't get a job, they will leave.  They left in droves after the 2008 crash.

 

And honestly, I only hear the Dems talking about the Repubs wanting to kick them out as a tactic to get votes. I don't hear any serious Repubs talking about kicking them out.

 

As for making the current one's legal while I am not opposed to that but I will not stand for it until AFTER the border is secure.  Back when Reagan was president we went through this....Ronnie with the backing of the Dems made all the current illegals legal and promised to secure the border.  Obviously it never happened.

[Tonik]

And no, I don't hate Mexicans. Except you.

[motocat12]

But a wall AND law enforcement will keep the numbers from continuing to climb.

 

They also have a long list of crimes required to live illegaly that have stretched their morals(what's one more offence?). What makes you think they want to start paying taxes now? If they're legal citizens then farms would be required to pay them american wages and we'll need more illegals to work cheap again. If they are under what ever 2016 tax system salary minimum then we'll be giving out even more welfare.

I bet they would get more child tax credits on average than current legal citizens.

Edited October 19, 2015 by motocat12

[Tpoppa]

And I do think we need to dramatically up the quotas, it's great for the economy. 

I'm not sure I believe this.  I've heard both sides of this argument.  It's like gun control/rights.  Each side cherry pick statistics that support their argument.

[drc32-0]

I'm an asshole so I'm not opposed to a wall

But why is there so much emphasis on either keeping them out or kicking the ones here already out? Wouldn't it be a lot cheaper and more prudent to the health of the country to make them legal tax paying citizens?

Is there something I am missing with that line of thinking?

Two things I can think of off the top of my head.1)The people who are hiring illegals don't want to pay legal wages or taxes.2)Once the illegal becomes a a legal citizen why would they work for shit wages when they could make much more on welfare.

Want to solve the problem?Deport the people that hire illegals,confiscate their property,use that money to go after the next slimeball that hires illegals.Jobs will dry up,problem solved.

[Tpoppa]

Personally, I think the MAIN reason that Democrat politicians support giving citizenship to illegals is this:

 

Illegals are statically likely to be low income, at least initially.  And low income voters are more likely to vote Democratic.

[Helmutt]

Fuck a wall.  Dig a trench, fill it with starving aquatic/amphibian carnivores, post cameras every 100ft, host up a PPV website to watch the show = more revenue for the fed gov

[snot]

Fuck it, we should buy Mexico. Then see where they run too.

[jbot]

Legalize illegal Mexican immigrants. I promise they're not a gateway immigrant to hard illegal immigrants.

[Strictly Street]

 it's great for the economy

 

I've never heard the reasoning behind this statement. It is said often to support the movement. But that in and of itself doesn't make it true.

It seems to me that the economy would be modified by the hiring of bi-lingual teachers and police for a larger population.

The tax base would stay the same as the newcomers would not be homeowners so no property taxes leading to an increase in taxes.

Etc, etc, so where is the benefit to the economy?

 

Fuck it, we should buy Mexico. Then see where they run too.

 

The difference between the USA and Mexico is an imaginary line in the dirt.

One set of laws and government on one side and another on the other.

Quite an endorsement for our form of government, Or a slap in the face for the other form if you see it that way.

Edited October 20, 2015 by Strictly Street

[Tonik]

I've never heard the reasoning behind this statement. It is said often to support the movement. But that in and of itself doesn't make it true.

It seems to me that the economy would be modified by the hiring of bi-lingual teachers and police for a larger population.

The tax base would stay the same as the newcomers would not be homeowners so no property taxes leading to an increase in taxes.

Etc, etc, so where is the benefit to the economy?

 

 

 

40 percent of the US Fortune 500 were started by immigrants.  They are very entrepreneurial, they start business's all over the place...a huge number of small businesses that employ lazy Americans. And renters pay property taxes, it just passes through the hands of the apartment owner first.

[Tpoppa]

40 percent of the US Fortune 500 were started by immigrants.  They are very entrepreneurial, they start business's all over the place...a huge number of small businesses that employ lazy Americans. And renters pay property taxes, it just passes through the hands of the apartment owner first.

What % of immigrants would you estimate to business owners?

 

Many immigrant small business owners send every cent of profit back to their home land.  Others get every form of credit possible, max them out and then leave the US without paying their debt.  This is a known issue with a particular type of business. 

[motocat12]

But those 40% are illegals or vetted by immigration? Would the ratio of business starters be better than citizens if every onc denied a visa had come in anyway?
1/3 of our immigrants are mexican-

"The self-employment rate was particularly high for immigrants from Korea (30.8 percent); Iran (27.5 percent); Italy (25.2 percent); Vietnam (19.5 percent) and Canada (18.4 percent). It was lowest for immigrants from the Dominican Republic (5.1 percent); Haiti (5.5 percent); Philippines (5.8 percent); Ecuador (7.3 percent) and Mexico (7.8 percent). The largest number of illegal immigrants are coming from that latter group, he said."

"Immigrant business owners are not permitted a tax break. These immigrant business owners figured out how to get by without paying taxes. Our immigration law states that until an immigrant business owner is granted citizenship which takes an automatic 5 years, they are exempt from paying business taxes, which includes taxes on the cost of goods purchased for resale. These business owners manipulated the system and consistently changed ownership of these businesses to someone in their family every 5 years or once they gain citizenship, so that may escape the business tax."

 

How do natural born citizens' companies compete with untaxed ones?

Edited October 20, 2015 by motocat12

[Tonik]

But those 40% are illegals or vetted by immigration? Would the ratio of business starters be better than citizens if every onc denied a visa had come in anyway?

1/3 of our immigrants are mexican-

"The self-employment rate was particularly high for immigrants from Korea (30.8 percent); Iran (27.5 percent); Italy (25.2 percent); Vietnam (19.5 percent) and Canada (18.4 percent). It was lowest for immigrants from the Dominican Republic (5.1 percent); Haiti (5.5 percent); Philippines (5.8 percent); Ecuador (7.3 percent) and Mexico (7.8 percent). The largest number of illegal immigrants are coming from that latter group, he said."

"Immigrant business owners are not permitted a tax break. These immigrant business owners figured out how to get by without paying taxes. Our immigration law states that until an immigrant business owner is granted citizenship which takes an automatic 5 years, they are exempt from paying business taxes, which includes taxes on the cost of goods purchased for resale. These business owners manipulated the system and consistently changed ownership of these businesses to someone in their family every 5 years or once they gain citizenship, so that may escape the business tax."

 

How do natural born citizens' companies compete with untaxed ones?

 

 

LOL. That is total bullshit. Check it out a little further.  It is a twist on S corp tax laws made to look like the immigrants are pulling a fast one. Are we really debating that in a country founded on immigration...that legal controlled planned immigration is bad? You asshats need to go back to the country your ancestors came from.

[motocat12]

I did fact check it- too late to edit. But I do believe there is fraud and our govt is too disorganized to detect it.

 

The majority of our immigration is not legal/planned and over powered from one country. 

 

If you're so poor you have to walk across the border, you're not the most educated and likely to start a business.

Edited October 20, 2015 by motocat12

[Tpoppa]

Why do immigrant owned convenient stores change hands to a new owner (that just happens to be a relative) every few years?

[motocat12]

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/11/14/15165781-new-york-brothers-accused-of-scamming-real-owner-of-5-million-lottery-ticket?lite

 

http://www.justice.gov/usao-sdoh/pr/central-ohio-trio-charged-crimes-arising-out-credit-card-fraud

 

"All eight of the men indicted are Somali immigrants who were in the country legally but are not U.S. citizens.

 

The stores involved included City Dollar Store, 3350 Cleveland Ave.; Ohio Grocery and Halal Meats, 2815 Cleveland Ave.; Marwaas Market, 4181 W. Broad St.; and Muna Market, 3770 W. Broad St. All of the stores catered to the Somali community, said Fred Alverson, spokesman for the U.S. district attorney’s office."

[bloodninja420]

Demography is destiny.

Look at the kind of people coming in and what kind of shape their places of origin are in, politically and economically. If a country is still 3rd world in 2015, it's because the preferences of its people is for banana-republic policy.

Look at the political party our current crop of immigrants are voting for 5-to-1 in favor for, and does that party support the values your dad and grandfather taught you?

This is why Trump has such massive support. If you have an interest in political conservatism as a national platform, demographics are the only thing that matter in the long run for enacting those policies, and Trump is the only guy with the cajones to call things as they see it.

My kids get to grow up in a country that will have invited in 100 million brown 3rd worlders, who are actively opposed to a good chunk of my values and traditions.. but hey, good job GOP, you can claim to the new York times that you're not scary racists.

[Tpoppa]

If we need more immigrants, cool. Up the quotas and have them go through the process.  And I do think we need to dramatically up the quotas, it's great for the economy

Jim are you saying that immigrants have a more positive impact on the economy that an existing citizen?   On average? 

[Tonik]

Jim are you saying that immigrants have a more positive impact on the economy that an existing citizen?   On average? 

 

Do you think starting a business is good for the economy?

[Tpoppa]

Do you think starting a business is good for the economy?

Answering a question with a question would seem to indicate uncertainty in your position.  Plenty of existing citizens start businesses.

 

But to answer your question:  Honestly, it depends on the business.  80% of new businesses fail within the first year.  So, no...80% of them are not good for the economy.

[Tonik]

Answering a question with a question would seem to indicate uncertainty in your position.  Plenty of existing citizens start businesses.

 

But to answer your question:  Honestly, it depends on the business.  80% of new businesses fail within the first year.  So, no...80% of them are not good for the economy.

 

Are the 20 percent that succeed good for the economy?

[Tpoppa]