bloodninja420 Posted October 20, 2015 Report Share Posted October 20, 2015 Economically, immigrants are very good for the country as long as they are not net drains on the welfare system.Business founders are the obvious case, but even the $10/hr dry waller is a plus. Think of all the voluntary contracts that dry-waller will enter into that makes the counterparty better off. The person who employs them wins, the people who hire the employer win, the guy who rents an apartment to them wins, any vendor that sells them food/clothes/etc wins, uncle sam wins when they pay taxes.By definition, both sides engaging in voluntary trade are better off, or they wouldn't be dealing.The only way to economically lose on immigration is if the immigrant is a net lifetime drain on welfare programs, which is more a problem in the EU than the US. The problem in the US is political. Immigrants, and the extended families they're allowed to import via chain-immigration, vote. And they vote for the statist options.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tpoppa Posted October 20, 2015 Report Share Posted October 20, 2015 Economically, immigrants are very good for the country as long as they are not net drains on the welfare system.Business founders are the obvious case, but even the $10/hr dry waller is a plus. Think of all the voluntary contracts that dry-waller will enter into that makes the counterparty better off. The person who employs them wins, the people who hire the employer win, the guy who rents an apartment to them wins, any vendor that sells them food/clothes/etc wins, uncle sam wins when they pay taxes.By definition, both sides engaging in voluntary trade are better off, or they wouldn't be dealing.The only way to economically lose on immigration is if the immigrant is a net lifetime drain on welfare programs, which is more a problem in the EU than the US.The problem in the US is political. Immigrants, and the extended families they're allowed to import via chain-immigration, vote. And they vote for the statist options..You described several situations without quantifying anything. Also, you're not really making an argument for immigration...you're more accurately making an argument for "more people (regardless of origin)" are better for the economy. I do not believe this is the case overall. There are very few industries where jobs cannot be filled due to lack of applicants or lack of skills that can only be found outside our borders.. Conversely, there are plenty of examples in the US and worldwide where population density (more people) does not equate to economic prosperity. In fact the opposite is true in many cases. If immigration was an automatic economic boost, then why aren't the leaders of countries worldwide doing everything they can to lure immigrants to relocate into their country??!!??! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonik Posted October 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2015 There are very few industries where jobs cannot be filled due to lack of applicants or lack of skills that can only be found outside our borders.. http://www.industryweek.com/skilled-workers http://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2015/05/07/jobs-numbers-labor-shortage-baby-boomers-inflation-editorials-debates/70973518/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonik Posted October 20, 2015 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2015 Conversely, there are plenty of examples in the US and worldwide where population density (more people) does not equate to economic prosperity. In fact the opposite is true in many cases. You are ignoring the fact that our whole fucking country and economy were built on immigration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tpoppa Posted October 20, 2015 Report Share Posted October 20, 2015 You are ignoring the fact that our whole fucking country and economy were built on immigration.Big deal Jim. Every country was built on immigration if you look back far enough. But not every choose to keep an open immigration policy for good reason. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tpoppa Posted October 20, 2015 Report Share Posted October 20, 2015 For the record, I am OK with legal immigration so long as it's not from countries where a significant portion of the population would like to see us blown up. I believe we'll see a more restrictive immigration policy in our lifetimes, similar to much of the rest of the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drc32-0 Posted October 20, 2015 Report Share Posted October 20, 2015 I just glanced through the Industry Week article you referenced.I noticed one glaring oversight...America's war on unions and how that affected training and apprenticeships.They mentioned that the electrical industry has more apprentices than nearly all,or all,of the manufacturing industry.I' wouldn't be surprised if nearly all of those 33,000 electrical apprentices are union apprentices.That article was just more pandering for corporate welfare.Unions have trained apprentices for decades without government money,if they don't want unions it's time for corporations to pay for their own training.Don't just complain about unskilled works,hire people and train them.Since corporations don't want unions they are pushing the cost of training onto the individual,and in many cases,onto the taxpayers through educational assistance. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Connie14 Posted October 21, 2015 Report Share Posted October 21, 2015 I have always been responsible for my education and development of skills. I am free to take my education, experience, and skills to the employer of my choice. That is the purpose of a free market economy.In the master level civil engineering classes, white males were a minority. If you add the Asians and Indians, they were the majority. Many of them went home after graduation, but some of them immigrated and stayed in the U.S. From my experience, these very intelligent individuals should be welcomed in any society. They tend to be an asset, not a liability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motocat12 Posted October 21, 2015 Report Share Posted October 21, 2015 I have always been responsible for my education and development of skills. I am free to take my education, experience, and skills to the employer of my choice. That is the purpose of a free market economy.In the master level civil engineering classes, white males were a minority. If you add the Asians and Indians, they were the majority. Many of them went home after graduation, but some of them immigrated and stayed in the U.S. From my experience, these very intelligent individuals should be welcomed in any society. They tend to be an asset, not a liability.how many of them climbed the mexico border fence? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloodninja420 Posted October 21, 2015 Report Share Posted October 21, 2015 how many of them climbed the mexico border fence?That's what's maddening about the GOP for the last 30 years. No one has the guts to admit that some immigrant groups make a whole lot better neighbors than others. Maybe you don't have the votes to ramp up Mexican deportation, but why not at least negotiate to balance the scales.Right now someone should be standing up and welcoming any German or Sweed who is dissatisfied with their countries importing a million muslims. Similarly for white south africans, who are living in legitimate danger these days. We should also consider stopping the insane practice of kicking out east Asians after they graduate from our colleges. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strictly Street Posted October 21, 2015 Report Share Posted October 21, 2015 40 percent of the US Fortune 500 were started by immigrants. They are very entrepreneurial, they start business's all over the place...a huge number of small businesses that employ lazy Americans. And renters pay property taxes, it just passes through the hands of the apartment owner first. Interesting but misleading statistic.Wouldn't it be more accurate to say %100 of the fortune 500 were started by immigrants?The casino's on the reservations are privately held so therefor not on the S&P 500 list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motocat12 Posted October 22, 2015 Report Share Posted October 22, 2015 'Are we in U.S. airspace yet?': Woman who gave birth at 30,000 feet deportedhttp://www.nydailynews.com/news/world/woman-gave-birth-30-000-feet-separated-baby-article-1.2406735 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gump Posted October 22, 2015 Report Share Posted October 22, 2015 (edited) The biggest problem with immigrants is the probable free shit they get on tax payers dimes. The other is national security. If those problems exist, build a border fence along with land mines. Edited October 23, 2015 by Gump Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motocat12 Posted October 23, 2015 Report Share Posted October 23, 2015 The spotty enforcement doesn't make any sense.http://abcnews.go.com/US/sophisticated-super-drug-tunnel-california-mexico-discovered/story?id=34666647 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strictly Street Posted October 30, 2015 Report Share Posted October 30, 2015 (edited) http://apnews.myway.com/article/20151030/us-immigration-overload-715b0a163d.html Clearly a biased opinion piece. Not the 40% of the fortune 500 people. Oct 30, 4:11 AM (ET)By ALICIA A. CALDWELL (AP) In this June 20, 2014, file photo, immigrants who entered the U.S. illegally...Full Image WASHINGTON (AP) — Hundreds of immigrant families caught illegally crossing the Mexican border told U.S. immigration agents they made the dangerous journey in part because they believed they would be permitted to stay in the United States and collect public benefits, according to internal intelligence files from the Homeland Security Department. More at the link... Just for fun, google "foreign nationals ohio drug bust"A story about them being let go where you or I would be in jail for a very long time.Of course from ICE and Homeland Security.The media is?.... Edited October 30, 2015 by Strictly Street Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motocat12 Posted October 31, 2015 Report Share Posted October 31, 2015 Not to mention the "unfixable" medicare that is a prime target.https://refugeeresettlementwatch.wordpress.com/2014/03/01/dallas-is-ground-zero-for-largest-medicaid-fraud-ring-yet-uncovered-nigerians-this-time/http://www.newsmax.com/JamesWalsh/Immigrant-fraud-Medicaid-Medicare/2011/03/07/id/388598/http://dailycaller.com/2013/01/25/illegal-aliens-get-over-91-million-in-medicare-payments-in-recent-years/http://www.fiercehealthpayer.com/antifraud/story/investigation-reveals-criminal-pipeline-cuba-riddled-healthcare-fraud/2015-01-12http://www.miamiherald.com/news/special-reports/watchdog-report/article1929754.htmlhttp://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/04/us/politics/crackdown-proposed-to-prevent-illegal-immigrants-from-obtaining-medicare.htmlhttp://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/a-fraud-ring-and-the-russian-mind-set Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strictly Street Posted November 7, 2015 Report Share Posted November 7, 2015 Hmmm... How about that.... Orban's ratings rise as Hungarian fence deters migrant 'invasion'BUDAPEST (Reuters) - With an anti-immigrant campaign and razor-wire border fence Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban has reversed a slide in his party's popularity, emerging at home as a winner in the crisis that has divided Europe.Personal approval ratings have also jumped for the man who closed down a major transit route through Hungary for hundreds of thousands of asylum seekers fleeing war and poverty. More here:https://ca.news.yahoo.com/orbans-ratings-rise-hungarian-fence-deters-migrant-invasion-120823942--business.html Interesting spin on the story. Not the same as here. But interesting spin none the less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimTheAzn Posted November 9, 2015 Report Share Posted November 9, 2015 Legalize illegal Mexican immigrants. I promise they're not a gateway immigrant to hard illegal immigrants.I LOL'd.Sent from my iPhone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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