Tpoppa Posted February 24, 2016 Report Share Posted February 24, 2016 1 hour ago, Tonik said: Name me one thing DC has ever done well? Everything they do is an unmitigated disaster. Full of waste, fraud and corruption and usually does more harm than good. This was my biggest concern with Obamacare. Anything DC touches is less efficient than private industry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelS Posted February 24, 2016 Report Share Posted February 24, 2016 Well Bad if you think looking at facts is a bleeding heart then I feel sorry for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelS Posted February 24, 2016 Report Share Posted February 24, 2016 Just now, Tpoppa said: This was my biggest concern with Obamacare. Anything DC touches is less efficient than private industry. I would not at all call our private insurance industry efficient. In fact ours is one of the least efficient in the world, certainly the developed world. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tpoppa Posted February 24, 2016 Report Share Posted February 24, 2016 The FIRST step towards fixing Congress is term limits. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Connie14 Posted February 24, 2016 Report Share Posted February 24, 2016 Is private insurance less efficient than the VA? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonik Posted February 24, 2016 Report Share Posted February 24, 2016 1 minute ago, MichaelS said: I would argue that special interests are the reason for that. In todays congress special interests and companies draft these laws/bills not congress-people. Maybe I am wrong but that isn't how it is supposed to work from my understanding. Remove those and make congress do its' job and listen and be accountable to the people and I think things are much different. I don't disagree at all. But until we remove the special interests/lobbies then giving them more money to f' things up more is counter productive. And just to be clear I mean all of them, which includes the unions and environmentalists...NRA....all of them. And that is why we will never get rid of them. Everyone wants to get rid of them, except the ones they agree with. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tpoppa Posted February 24, 2016 Report Share Posted February 24, 2016 Just now, MichaelS said: I would not at all call our private insurance industry efficient. In fact ours is one of the least efficient in the world, certainly the developed world. Neither would I. But Obamacare is worse. So much worse, in fact, that the largest provider in Obamacare has warned it has plans to drop out. http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2015/11/19/unitedhealth-group-earnings-downgrade-obamacare-affordable-care-act/76040322/ 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScubaCinci Posted February 24, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2016 Obamacare is the epitome of good intentions being the paved road to hell. I think everyone agrees the government is whack...all driven by special and self interests. People are fed up...as evidenced by the success of Trump thus far though the jury is largely out that he'll be any better and/or able to effect positive change. I'm not sold. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonik Posted February 24, 2016 Report Share Posted February 24, 2016 49 minutes ago, Tpoppa said: The FIRST step towards fixing Congress is term limits. How has that worked out in legislative branch for the state of Ohio? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad324 Posted February 24, 2016 Report Share Posted February 24, 2016 55 minutes ago, MichaelS said: Well Bad if you think looking at facts is a bleeding heart then I feel sorry for you. No, you just make it sound as though it is impossible to better one's self due to "society, policies and history". I'm not going to waste my time on a bleeding heart because there are many, many examples of individuals who have come from a disadvantaged position in this country. I'd also argue that among those policies were ones created to help those disadvantaged folk by politicians of your ilk. Somehow though they have only enabled them to continue to be disadvantaged and not pursue the routes that made America so great back in the day. So tell me, why can't they see that some policies they put in place are broken and doing exactly the opposite of what the intentions were supposed to be? (psssst the answer is: Votes) So continue to believe that one side or the other is right and the other is wrong in a broken system. They all lie, deceive and prove hypocritical no matter what side of the aisle they are on. No politician gives a shit about you, me, or any other person for that matter. They just give a shit about their power and money and if you can't see that then I truly feel sorry for you 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tpoppa Posted February 24, 2016 Report Share Posted February 24, 2016 10 minutes ago, Tonik said: How has that worked out in legislative branch for the state of Ohio? The congressional approval rating is about 15%...yet incumbents have about a 90% reelection rate. The process could not be any more broken. Terms limits is the FIRST step toward fixing this. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2013/05/09/people-hate-congress-but-most-incumbents-get-re-elected-what-gives/ Do a bit of googling...then tell me how the net worth of career senators has increased over their time in office. Then tell me how they can possibly build these personal fortunes without getting kickbacks and sucking the dick of special interest. And exactly how are they working in the best interest of the American people while passing legislation to guarantee their fortunes keep growing? Here is a head start: http://www.rollcall.com/50richest/the-50-richest-members-of-congress-112th.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonik Posted February 24, 2016 Report Share Posted February 24, 2016 Just now, Tpoppa said: The congressional approval rating is about 15%...yet incumbents have about a 90% reelection rate. The process could not be any more broken. Terms limits is the FIRST step toward fixing this. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2013/05/09/people-hate-congress-but-most-incumbents-get-re-elected-what-gives/ Do a bit of googling...then tell me how the net worth of career senators has increased over their time in office. Then tell me how they can possibly build these personal fortunes without getting kickbacks and sucking the dick of special interest. And exactly how are they working in the best interest of the American people while passing legislation to guarantee their fortunes keep growing? Here is a head start: http://www.rollcall.com/50richest/the-50-richest-members-of-congress-112th.html Answer the damn question man. How has term limits improved the quality of the Ohio legislature? I am not debating the problem, it is your solution which has not solved anything where it has been implemented, that I am taking exception with. They still sell their souls, then take a job private sector with those people, or carpetbag to another spot with the backing of the same people. And when they run out of options the new people are bought and sold by the same people. It is rinse lather repeat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tpoppa Posted February 24, 2016 Report Share Posted February 24, 2016 9 minutes ago, Bad324 said: So continue to believe that one side or the other is right and the other is wrong in a broken system. They all lie, deceive and prove hypocritical no matter what side of the aisle they are on. Agree. Anyone who has the attitude that "my party will make things better...but the other worse party will be the death of US" is a monumental idiot. There are too many of these morons to count, and they are propping up this broken, two-party system. As I've said many times, I have far too much pride to call myself a democrat or republican. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tpoppa Posted February 24, 2016 Report Share Posted February 24, 2016 Just now, Tonik said: Answer the damn question man. How has term limits improved the quality of the Ohio legislature? Comparing the Ohio legislature with US Congress is not apples to apples. Drawing any conclusions would be full of flaws. If you want to discuss that, go ahead and start a new thread. If I'm interested I'll comment. If not I will ignore it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tpoppa Posted February 24, 2016 Report Share Posted February 24, 2016 Terms limits are the FIRST step. Over turning this is the second https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20130416/08344222725/congress-quickly-quietly-rolls-back-insider-trading-rules-itself.shtml Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonik Posted February 24, 2016 Report Share Posted February 24, 2016 12 minutes ago, Tpoppa said: Comparing the Ohio legislature with US Congress is not apples to apples. Drawing any conclusions would be full of flaws. If you want to discuss that, go ahead and start a new thread. If I'm interested I'll comment. If not I will ignore it. Lol, ok then give us some examples of where term limits have done something. Maybe you could use President as an example, that has worked out really well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelS Posted February 24, 2016 Report Share Posted February 24, 2016 1 hour ago, Connie14 said: Is private insurance less efficient than the VA? I see your VA and raise you a Medicare. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tpoppa Posted February 24, 2016 Report Share Posted February 24, 2016 3 minutes ago, Tonik said: Lol, ok then give us some examples of where term limits have done something. Maybe you could use President as an example, that has worked out really well. You no read good. Where did I say terms limits would solve all the problems in Congress? I said it was the first step. I said it 3 times in fact. Term limits will get rid of the crusty old pig fuckers that should have been removed long ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelS Posted February 24, 2016 Report Share Posted February 24, 2016 41 minutes ago, Bad324 said: No, you just make it sound as though it is impossible to better one's self due to "society, policies and history". I'm not going to waste my time on a bleeding heart because there are many, many examples of individuals who have come from a disadvantaged position in this country. I'd also argue that among those policies were ones created to help those disadvantaged folk by politicians of your ilk. Somehow though they have only enabled them to continue to be disadvantaged and not pursue the routes that made America so great back in the day. So tell me, why can't they see that some policies they put in place are broken and doing exactly the opposite of what the intentions were supposed to be? (psssst the answer is: Votes) So continue to believe that one side or the other is right and the other is wrong in a broken system. They all lie, deceive and prove hypocritical no matter what side of the aisle they are on. No politician gives a shit about you, me, or any other person for that matter. They just give a shit about their power and money and if you can't see that then I truly feel sorry for you I never said there are not some that make it out. But clearly the vast majority do not. Which is why it continues to drag on the economy. And it is not about taxes which is why I originally said it is a completely different topic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelS Posted February 24, 2016 Report Share Posted February 24, 2016 22 minutes ago, Tpoppa said: Terms limits are the FIRST step. Over turning this is the second https://www.techdirt.com/articles/20130416/08344222725/congress-quickly-quietly-rolls-back-insider-trading-rules-itself.shtml The list is incredibly long but I would add that gerrymandering your own districts is not conducive to actual democracy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad324 Posted February 24, 2016 Report Share Posted February 24, 2016 8 minutes ago, MichaelS said: I never said there are not some that make it out. But clearly the vast majority do not. Which is why it continues to drag on the economy. And it is not about taxes which is why I originally said it is a completely different topic. You said that people should actively make less money to pay less taxes if they don't like it. I'm saying if the poor don't like it they should make more money and pay taxes and see just how much people who do make a living and pay taxes are out of pocket because of their social programs and lazy asses. It's not a different topic. You just choose to want to blame everyone other than the people that perpetuate their own misfortunes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drc32-0 Posted February 24, 2016 Report Share Posted February 24, 2016 47 minutes ago, Tonik said: Answer the damn question man. How has term limits improved the quality of the Ohio legislature? I am not debating the problem, it is your solution which has not solved anything where it has been implemented, that I am taking exception with. They still sell their souls, then take a job private sector with those people, or carpetbag to another spot with the backing of the same people. And when they run out of options the new people are bought and sold by the same people. It is rinse lather repeat. You just described our governor. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tpoppa Posted February 24, 2016 Report Share Posted February 24, 2016 (edited) How many of these Senators are performing such an incredible job for the American people, that our country would be damaged if they were replaced? Again, the congressional approval rating is about 15%...yet incumbents have about a 90% reelection rate. Senator State Date of taking office Length of Senate term to date Party Patrick Leahy Vermont 3-Jan-75 41 years, 52 days Democratic Orrin Hatch Utah 3-Jan-77 39 years, 52 days Republican Thad Cochran Mississippi 27-Dec-78 37 years, 59 days Republican Chuck Grassley Iowa 3-Jan-81 35 years, 52 days Republican Mitch McConnell Kentucky 3-Jan-85 31 years, 52 days Republican Richard Shelby Alabama 3-Jan-87 29 years, 52 days Republican Barbara Mikulski Maryland 3-Jan-87 29 years, 52 days Democratic John McCain Arizona 3-Jan-87 29 years, 52 days Republican Harry Reid Nevada 3-Jan-87 29 years, 52 days Democratic Dianne Feinstein California 10-Nov-92 23 years, 106 days Democratic Barbara Boxer California 3-Jan-93 23 years, 52 days Democratic Patty Murray Washington 3-Jan-93 23 years, 52 days Democratic Jim Inhofe Oklahoma 17-Nov-94 21 years, 99 days Republican Ron Wyden Oregon 6-Feb-96 20 years, 18 days Democratic Pat Roberts Kansas 3-Jan-97 19 years, 52 days Republican Mike Enzi Wyoming 3-Jan-97 19 years, 52 days Republican Dick Durbin Illinois 3-Jan-97 19 years, 52 days Democratic Jeff Sessions Alabama 3-Jan-97 19 years, 52 days Republican Jack Reed Rhode Island 3-Jan-97 19 years, 52 days Democratic Susan Collins Maine 3-Jan-97 19 years, 52 days Republican Chuck Schumer New York 3-Jan-99 17 years, 52 days Democratic Mike Crapo Idaho 3-Jan-99 17 years, 52 days Republican Edited February 24, 2016 by Tpoppa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonik Posted February 24, 2016 Report Share Posted February 24, 2016 11 minutes ago, drc32-0 said: You just described our governor. Heck man, I described every politician out there. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Connie14 Posted February 24, 2016 Report Share Posted February 24, 2016 41 minutes ago, MichaelS said: I see your VA and raise you a Medicare. An inefficient organization vs inefficient organization? http://www.nationalreview.com/article/331704/medicares-efficiency-robert-moffit-alyene-senger http://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2011/06/30/the-myth-of-medicares-low-administrative-costs/#5ba63b3f5338 http://www.cato.org/blog/private-insurance-more-efficient-medicare-far Also, private insurance cannot enforce its will on the populace in the same manner as Uncle Sam. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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