ScubaCinci Posted February 24, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2016 1 hour ago, Tpoppa said: As I've said many times, I have far too much pride to call myself a democrat or republican. I often ask those that are demonstrative about their party affiliation to define exactly what their label (repub or democrat) means and how it's different than the other. I have yet to meet someone that can articulate it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonik Posted February 24, 2016 Report Share Posted February 24, 2016 21 minutes ago, ScubaCinci said: what their label (repub or democrat) means and how it's different than the other. I can do it. Dems suck the left nut, R's suck the right nut. That is the difference. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
330racing Posted February 24, 2016 Report Share Posted February 24, 2016 5 hours ago, MichaelS said: I think the numbers say we are not in a global economic expansion of any real measure. "The 2008 financial crisis and subsequent “Great Recession” has caused hardship to many working women and men, families and communities. Since the beginning of the crisis the global jobs gap increased by 67 million. In spite of positive employment gains over the past years, global unemployment is still high and expected to approach 208 million people by 2015 and 214 million people by 2018. The challenge is greater in advanced economies and among the youth. The incidence of long-term unemployment (which lasts 27 consecutive weeks or more) has increased in the majority of advanced and developing countries, while labor force participation rates have declined in most countries. The recession has also brought rising underemployment in advanced countries and vulnerable employment in developing countries. In 2012, 56% of all workers in developing countries were occupied in vulnerable employment, which carries high economic risk. " We continue to run deficits because the economy is still junk. Please see one of my previous posts as to why that is. Cutting government spending isn't going to fix, but will certainly make worse. Perhaps we should run the automotive aftermarket out of business through the EPA. That should help! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScubaCinci Posted February 24, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2016 16 minutes ago, Tonik said: I can do it. Dems suck the left nut, R's suck the right nut. That is the difference. Sounds about right Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelS Posted February 24, 2016 Report Share Posted February 24, 2016 3 hours ago, Bad324 said: You said that people should actively make less money to pay less taxes if they don't like it. I'm saying if the poor don't like it they should make more money and pay taxes and see just how much people who do make a living and pay taxes are out of pocket because of their social programs and lazy asses. It's not a different topic. You just choose to want to blame everyone other than the people that perpetuate their own misfortunes It is far easier to choose to make less money than it is to make more. So they are not quite the same thing. Some of the blame for them staying in poverty is choices they make but a significant part is out of their control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
330racing Posted February 24, 2016 Report Share Posted February 24, 2016 On 2/23/2016 at 2:15 PM, Bad324 said: Why? Because it doesn't make his point 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelS Posted February 24, 2016 Report Share Posted February 24, 2016 2 hours ago, 330racing said: Perhaps we should run the automotive aftermarket out of business through the EPA. That should help! Oh jeez not this again. Give it a rest already. Nothing says that is going to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad324 Posted February 24, 2016 Report Share Posted February 24, 2016 (edited) 13 minutes ago, MichaelS said: It is far easier to choose to make less money than it is to make more. So they are not quite the same thing. Some of the blame for them staying in poverty is choices they make but a significant part is out of their control. and I have highlighted EXACTLY what the problem with this country is. Nobody wants to work hard for anything anymore and wants it handed to them. I also find your second sentence another major issue with this society. A significant part is on them and only some of the blame can be placed on "things out of their control". Nobody wants to take responsibility for their own shit, it's always the man keeping them down. Screw that, get a job hippies Edited February 24, 2016 by Bad324 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelS Posted February 24, 2016 Report Share Posted February 24, 2016 1 minute ago, Bad324 said: and I have highlighted EXACTLY what the problem with this country is. Nobody wants to work hard for anything and wants it handed to them. I also find your second statement another issue with this society. A significant part is on them and only some of the blame can be placed on "things out of their control". Nobody wants to take responsibility for their own shit, it's always the man keeping them down. Screw that, get a job hippies You are incredibly naive if you think people don't want to work hard. What they want is that hard work to pay off. In this country it hasn't. Taking inflation into account wages for the lower three of five quintiles is pretty much flat since 1967. If you are in that group you are not rewarded for working hard. Your CEO certainly is rewarded for questionable work but you don't see the fruits of your labor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad324 Posted February 24, 2016 Report Share Posted February 24, 2016 (edited) 6 minutes ago, MichaelS said: You are incredibly naive if you think people don't want to work hard. What they want is that hard work to pay off. In this country it hasn't. Taking inflation into account wages for the lower three of five quintiles is pretty much flat since 1967. If you are in that group you are not rewarded for working hard. Your CEO certainly is rewarded for questionable work but you don't see the fruits of your labor. Yes, I'm the naive one. For every 1 of those people that want to work hard there are probably at least 10 more that just live off the system with seemingly no desire to do anything more. Furthermore I can think of at least 2 industries in Ohio where jobs are plentiful that pull minimum $18-$22/hr and you don't even need a high school education. All you need to do is pass a drug test, show up on time and put in the work you're asked of. In fact in one of those industries if you can do that and then want to move up the ladder then companies will pay for your training which will vault you in to a 6 figure position. I personally know 3 people who have done exactly this because I hired them Edited February 24, 2016 by Bad324 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
what Posted February 24, 2016 Report Share Posted February 24, 2016 After all my deductions (not many) and so on, I ended up paying about 30% of my income in taxes last year. Not sure what you have to make in order to be paying this mythical 15-20% but I'd like some. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScubaCinci Posted February 24, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2016 (edited) There are a lot of people who don't want to work hard...regardless of the payoff. There are a lot of (not all, mind you) young people nowadays that feel entitled to be sitting in the boss's chair about 6 months into their career. I've interviewed them. My wife has interviewed them. they know everything and feel like they'll have your job in no time. Honestly, i grew up with nothing. Neither of my parents graduated high school and eked a living but we did OK. My dad grew up in a house with a literal dirt floor. I got married really young (19) and had a kid (bad decision). At the time, I had to drop out of college and work 2 jobs. We were on govt' assistance for 6 months. I had no family with money to help out so we were on our own. It was incredibly embarrassing for me and I busted ass and sacrificed to get out of that situation. I was (and still am) ashamed to admit it. Eventually got back in school, got my degree, worked my way up (there's a divorce in there somewhere). My current wife and I live very comfortably because we worked hard and sacrificed early on. We were lucky not to have major health issues or other catastrophes to derail us. Not everyone who sacrifices and tries hard succeeds and not everyone who needs help isn't a lazy bum. Shit happens. Help is there for hose who need it and I am proof of that. Unfortunately, many seem to abuse it these days. There's little or no shame in sponging off the government/others anymore...it's a way of life for many and they make no effort to better themselves and don't give a damn. Those are the people I resent. Everyone who works hard and follows the rules should resent them. Reform should happen to mitigate this...but it won't happen. I guess I'm rambling. Edited February 24, 2016 by ScubaCinci 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lawrence1 Posted February 26, 2016 Report Share Posted February 26, 2016 On Wednesday, February 24, 2016 at 3:52 PM, Bad324 said: Furthermore I can think of at least 2 industries in Ohio where jobs are plentiful that pull minimum $18-$22/hr and you don't even need a high school education. All you need to do is pass a drug test, show up on time and put in the work you're asked of. What two industries is that? I'll pass the word. The beauty of the progressive tax system is the rich go right on being rich. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad324 Posted February 26, 2016 Report Share Posted February 26, 2016 (edited) 5 hours ago, Lawrence1 said: What two industries is that? I'll pass the word. The beauty of the progressive tax system is the rich go right on being rich. Oil & Gas is the biggest and the one I have the most experience in. The other, which I may have misspoke and I'm not sure I should have classified it as an industry but pretty much any construction trade. It's difficult to find talented, reliable guys under the age of 40 right now. Edited February 26, 2016 by Bad324 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScubaCinci Posted February 26, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2016 When the economy took a dump, a lot of construction guys were laid off or forced to find other work because demand dried up and they never came back to it. We built our house a little over 2 years ago and it was very evident then when we talked to the workers. It's a shame it hasn't recovered and that's trade with a lot of trade based jobs. There's such a push for higher education to "get a good job" that fewer and fewer are attending vocational schools. Good welders are gold right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad324 Posted February 26, 2016 Report Share Posted February 26, 2016 28 minutes ago, ScubaCinci said: Good welders are gold right now. yup, that is the 6 figure job I was referring to in an earlier post. Hired 3 guys as laborers knowing they were going to learn to weld. We paid for all their training and 18 months after hiring them they were pulling anywhere from $40-$50/hour depending on the type of job they were on. Great guys, 2 of which never finished high school and 1 that had a GED making almost double what I was with a college education. I don't regret college and I'm lucky to not have any student loans but it was a total crock Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
durk Posted February 26, 2016 Report Share Posted February 26, 2016 OK been following this topic and by no means do I claim to be an expert nor do I have the answers. What continues to stick in my mind, however, is the money Burger King saved by relocating its headquarters to Canada. According to the Washington Post they stand to save 1.2 billion dollars in taxes by relocating to Canada. They went from being taxed nearly 40% in the states to just over 26% in Canada. It is no wonder companies move out. Our tax laws are jacked. I worked construction for my dad when I was in college and a few summers after as well. He basically payed me as I was a self employed sub-contractor. I was being taxed 30% of my income. That was rough. Would have been tough making a living make $15 an hour and being taxed at that rate. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScubaCinci Posted February 26, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2016 I had our HVAC serviced last week and the technician told the that Carrier is moving their manufacturing to Mexico to remain competitve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
durk Posted February 26, 2016 Report Share Posted February 26, 2016 As far as people wanting to work. Not sure I agree with the post saying that they want to. I see a lot of laziness as a teacher, and as a coach. Kids are not taught the value of hard work and are often soft because too often they are just handed things. I blame poor parenting. I have to check my self at times as a parent. I want my kids to have a good life, but I don't want them to develop the entitled attitude many have. I grew up knowing the value of what it meant to work hard and earn what you wanted. This is the reason my kids now have steers they take to our fair so I can teach them what hard work is all about. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motocat12 Posted February 26, 2016 Report Share Posted February 26, 2016 40 minutes ago, durk said: What continues to stick in my mind, however, is the money Burger King saved by relocating its headquarters to Canada. According to the Washington Post they stand to save 1.2 billion dollars in taxes by relocating to Canada. They went from being taxed nearly 40% in the states to just over 26% in Canada. It is no wonder companies move out. Our tax laws are jacked. But we need the 40% tax rate due to all the money held overseas.(talking about you Apple) fewer Companies left paying same funding needed. http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-tax-offshore-idUSKCN0S008U20151006 2.1 trillion in tax havens by fortune 500 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motocat12 Posted February 26, 2016 Report Share Posted February 26, 2016 40% before any deductions. "It's true that the statutory tax rate—including state and local taxes—is close to 40 percent, the highest among the developed world. But U.S. companies apply a long list of tax credits, subsidies, loopholes and other giveaways, so most of them pay much less than the top rate. Some, according to an analysis by Citizens for Tax Justice, have figured out how to pay no tax at all. Total corporate federal taxes fell to about 12 percent of profits from U.S.-based activity in 2011, according to a Congressional Budget Office report. In a separate study, the CBO found that the average tax rate in 2011 among developed countries was 3 percent of gross domestic product—compared with 2.3 percent of GDP in the U.S. " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelS Posted February 26, 2016 Report Share Posted February 26, 2016 2 hours ago, durk said: OK been following this topic and by no means do I claim to be an expert nor do I have the answers. What continues to stick in my mind, however, is the money Burger King saved by relocating its headquarters to Canada. According to the Washington Post they stand to save 1.2 billion dollars in taxes by relocating to Canada. They went from being taxed nearly 40% in the states to just over 26% in Canada. It is no wonder companies move out. Our tax laws are jacked. I worked construction for my dad when I was in college and a few summers after as well. He basically payed me as I was a self employed sub-contractor. I was being taxed 30% of my income. That was rough. Would have been tough making a living make $15 an hour and being taxed at that rate. In todays connected world companies don't feel the need to contribute to the country that gave them the opportunity to succeed. They instead take all they can then leave screwing that left behind. I didn't frequent burger king much before that "inversion" but I refuse to go at all now. Same thing with carrier. I won't be purchasing their products anymore as they are moving out of the states so they can pay their top brass more and their workers less. Who wants to bet the prices don't go down because of cheaper labor? What happens is these same corporations get the benefits of doing business here but without paying their due. Normal citizens don't get any such tax break. Maybe I should just tell the IRS for tax purposes my headquarters is in Ireland but I work and make money here and therefore am entitled to pay less in taxes just like corporations. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelS Posted February 26, 2016 Report Share Posted February 26, 2016 2 hours ago, durk said: As far as people wanting to work. Not sure I agree with the post saying that they want to. I see a lot of laziness as a teacher, and as a coach. Kids are not taught the value of hard work and are often soft because too often they are just handed things. I blame poor parenting. I have to check my self at times as a parent. I want my kids to have a good life, but I don't want them to develop the entitled attitude many have. I grew up knowing the value of what it meant to work hard and earn what you wanted. This is the reason my kids now have steers they take to our fair so I can teach them what hard work is all about. I will agree the boomers were not as good at raising good humans as their parents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonik Posted February 26, 2016 Report Share Posted February 26, 2016 (edited) 6 minutes ago, MichaelS said: I will agree the boomers were not as good at raising good humans as their parents. We boomers don't have anyone in school any more, they are not the kids he is talking about. It's the kids your generation is raising that are the problem. Edited February 26, 2016 by Tonik 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motocat12 Posted February 26, 2016 Report Share Posted February 26, 2016 2 minutes ago, MichaelS said: feel the need to contribute Our esteemed courts have decided, they're people who are legally required to maximize shareholder profits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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