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ALICE training & 'mass' shootings


redkow97

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Has anyone else had to complete ALICE training for work?

I just went through it yesterday, and it was an interesting few hours.  The history lessons about past school and other public shootings was the most eye-opening part for me.  I held several misconceptions about which were the deadliest, etc.

It was also interesting to hear how law enforcement has adjusted their response techniques since Columbine.

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Yes, we went through it.  The key take away was make your decisions based on what is happening, and what you know.  Not a bunch of made up rules. Hide, flight or fight are all valid choices depending upon the situation.  If you know the shooter is at the other end of the building..get the hell out.  If he is outside your door you then flight might not be a good idea, it is time to fight or barricade.

In our office area we bought big hammers and put them by all the windows so we can get the windows open if we need to.

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3 minutes ago, blue03636 said:

I have no been through it but my daughters school did. I wasn't fully pleased with what they were teaching them, some was good some was awful advice to give a bunch of 6-11 year old kids.

That is what our trainer said as well.  He expressed the same concerns to the creators of teh ALICE training with the expectation that they wouldn't make him a certified trainer.

But the basics are sound. Ours was taught to a group of adult professionals, several of whom carry firearms. 

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I don't know what is part of the required training and what our trainer added in himself, but one of the most striking slides was the victim break-down of the VA Tech shooting.  The rooms where people barricaded the door and/or rushed the shooter, no one died.

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As a school teacher it definitely was eye opening. The training confirmed some of my original thoughts about how to handle a situation and it gave me some additional strategies as well. I teach at a high school and our instructor was hesitant to suggest having students put their lives at risk to stop an attacker. I think it is hard for anybody to say if they would put their life at risk in a situation like that. I don't think you can say how you will react in any situation until you're in it. Then to force/encourage a student to risk his or life  is difficult for me.

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Whoever taught at my daughters school was telling them that if someone comes in the room to throw stuff at them so that they could escape. This is what really bothered my. I would almost bet money that every kid will throw things but forget the part about escaping. Now you just have a person that is even more pissed.

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Just now, blue03636 said:

Whoever taught at my daughters school was telling them that if someone comes in the room to throw stuff at them so that they could escape. This is what really bothered my. I would almost bet money that every kid will throw things but forget the part about escaping. Now you just have a person that is even more pissed.

 

No easy answers, but I agree with their instructor.  If an active shooter comes into the room I don't think pissing them off more is really relevant, they are already there to kill you. But I question the logic of teaching this to a 6 year old.  11, yea that starts to make sense.  But again there is no answer for every situation and child.  It's like the MSF course, the beginner class teaches you rules to follow...but we all can poke major holes in their rules with our experience...situations where their rule is wrong.

This is the same, it isn't rules to follow, it is a way of thinking.

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You are not thinking this through.  Below is a pic of the classroom next to my office, I am standing exactly where the shooter would be standing. Where do you think they can run to that will help? Yes, if the opportunity presents itself they need to run, but that opportunity will not happen unless someone does something to the shooter to create it. Hopefully the teacher will still be alive to do that, but trapped in a classroom fight back is the only viable answer.

 

 

 

 

c33a55e3-85d0-414d-b311-ef5f52aa46f1 - Copy.jpg

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Asking any kid to exercise common sense is a crapshoot... But therein lies the problem - it's not a "fire drill" where one plan works for every emergency.

"lock the door and stay quiet" is stupid though.  Sure, lock the door and barricade it quickly, but then get the hell out of there.  If you're in a lower-level or interior room, that's the teacher's call as to whether or not the kids can get to an exit, or should start "locking down."

The "throw things at the attacker" or "swarm the attacker" portion of the training is really the least important part in my mind.  At that point, the flee and hide strategies have already failed.  I suppose if you're in the room the attacker bursts into, you're kind of stuck with confrontation, but at that point, it's already a horribly bleak situation.

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1 minute ago, redkow97 said:

Sure, lock the door and barricade it quickly

 

Barricading a classroom door in Ohio is a felony.  Ohio is pondering changing that, but so far only 4 or 5 states allow it.

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For my office, we now have a plan outlining exactly how we'd barricade our door, and the people in my work space all know that's the plan - so everyone is aware they can't get back in here if they're somewhere else in teh building when they hear gun fire, etc.    That alone could save valuable wasted seconds of indecision.

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Just now, Tonik said:

 

Barricading a classroom door in Ohio is a felony.  Ohio is pondering changing that, but so far only 4 or 5 states allow it.

pardon my coarse language, but who fucking cares???    If the options are to leave an intruder and unobstructed path, or barricade the door, I'd rather be alive to be charged with the felony.

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1 minute ago, redkow97 said:

pardon my coarse language, but who fucking cares???    If the options are to leave an intruder and unobstructed path, or barricade the door, I'd rather be alive to be charged with the felony.

 

Chris, we can't supply the rooms with what they need to do a decent barricade.

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17 minutes ago, Tonik said:

 

You are not thinking this through.  Below is a pic of the classroom next to my office, I am standing exactly where the shooter would be standing. Where do you think they can run to that will help? Yes, if the opportunity presents itself they need to run, but that opportunity will not happen unless someone does something to the shooter to create it. Hopefully the teacher will still be alive to do that, but trapped in a classroom fight back is the only viable answer.

 

 

 

 

c33a55e3-85d0-414d-b311-ef5f52aa46f1 - Copy.jpg

 

 

No I am thinking that all the kids will do is throw things. They are 9 and already talking about how much stuff they will throw at someone. What good is throwing stuff if you don't follow it up with trying to get out.

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1 minute ago, blue03636 said:

 

 

No I am thinking that all the kids will do is throw things. They are 9 and already talking about how much stuff they will throw at someone. What good is throwing stuff if you don't follow it up with trying to get out.

 

Got ya. Yea, all the steps need to happen or it doesn't work.

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1 hour ago, blue03636 said:

 

 

What good is throwing stuff if you don't follow it up with trying to get out.

Taking a gun into an unarmed school to shoot kids suggests you're looking for easy targets, A flurry of books, pens, shoes may just  turn a mental person around.

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