Trackday Tires

[Limitedslip7]

Going to be ordering some new tires for this summer and was looking at the D211GPAs on racetireservice.com, 7455 med front and 8477 med+ rear. Think these will hold up for 5 MidO track days at a medium/slow pace (1:40-1:45ish)? I would be running them with warmers. Is there a better/cheaper option or source? They're going on a 100rwhp R6, so they won't exactly be getting punished... 

I ran the Pirelli Superbike Pro trackday slicks last year and they did okay but tended to slide on a few corner exits. Only wore about halfway through them in five trackdays though...

[TwiztedRabbit]

I honestly have zero experience with those particular tires...

 but if you are running at low 1:40's pace and want a tire that would work well... I could get 5ish days out of a set of Michelin Power Cup Evo's  as long as I flipped them they maybe more tire than you think you need but  they are great tires   that are good well into the 30's , another set I have great luck with is Pirelli SC1 and Sc2...  3-4 days flipped out of a set...

mind you this is coaching and   advanced running... you will punish your tires more or less based on your own kind of riding...

[Trackbikez]

FWIW, I think Q3s would last 5 trackdays at that pace with that kind of power - if you're ok with DOT tires.

1:45-1:50 pace on the heavy SV1k with a heavy rider on Q3s.  Per my service records, I did 9 days at MidOhio and 2 drag racing nights at Norwalk for a total of 962 miles on the rear before changing it.  YMMV, and my experience is limited to DOTs (2cts, Corsa Rossos, Q3s, & the S20 Evo). I've never tried slicks so I have no idea how those would feel.

That said, I think my current Q3 rear may only last 600-750 miles.

[RHill]

without some significant suspension issues and with a flip, you will get 5 days easy out of a gpa rear into the 1:30's at Mid-O.  

I always planned for 4 days with a flip on a take-off gpa and got more than expected. That is on mixed abrasion tracks(not jennings), but I also tend to wear DOT tires down past the bars to a slick.

[Limitedslip7]

Do you usually flip both the front and rear or just rear? 

[Jester_]

You are just going to flip the rear. A front can last a long time in terms of tread life however it should be cycled out after a period of time depending on how many heat cycles it has gone through. 

 

Also im not sure if you can flip a front due to the tire construction. 

Edited April 26, 2016 by Jester_

[RHill]

Normally get about 1 front for every 2 rears.  I've stopped flipping the front after seeing a tire start delaminating from being ran reverse from new.   In 2014 I had a Dunlop UK slick that started as a take off and I put something like 14 days on it....like Jester said, you start to lose confidence in the tire and have to change it out.

[Tonik]

3 minutes ago, RHill said:

Normally get about 1 front for every 2 rears. 

That makes sense, as that is what you usually see on the street.

[TwiztedRabbit]

i'll flip a front still... 2 days  flip  2 days  if I'm lucky.. but usually its still 1 front to 2 rears still..... I was able to manage  1 front and 2 rears over 3 days at Jennings on my 1199 at a 1:23 pace...  and Jennings is stupid abrasive.. but AGAIN I stress.. what I can do with a tire doesn't mean you can... or vice verse...

if your confidence starts to wain...  change it.. nuff said

[rusty]

7455 is better tire for midohio,8477 less grip slide more.

8477 is tire for NCM

[rusty]

With laps 1:40-45 I will run Q3s

[Limitedslip7]

I ran Q3's the year before last and they were great. Was running 1:44-1:45s on them for several days then lost the front end. I wouldn't mind running them again but I figure the extra $100 is worth the extra security and confidence that the DOT race rubber would give. 

After a closer look, the D211 GP-As might not be flippable? Says the GP-A Pro is though... Also they both only come in a 190/60, assuming I would need to change suspension heights coming from a Perelli 180/55? 

Maybe I'll just go with a set of Supercorsas. I can get an SC1 front and 180/55 SC2 rear for $315 shipped from STG. Shoudn't have to make any suspension changes then. I probably wouldn't be able to tell the difference between them and the Dunlops anyways. Anyone know the difference between the V1 and V2? 

On a side note, does anyone know what changes are being made at MidO to accommodate the split intermediate classes? Shorter sessions? Longer day? 

[RHill]

They say it is not flippable, but I've constantly flip the 211's and Dunlop slick rears with no issue.  The only issue I've seen was the splitting front when it was ran reverse from new......then turned it the right way and ran it for a couple days while checking it out every session.

You will feel a difference between the Pirelli's and the Dunlops, the softer carcass of the Pirelli will move around at the end of the back straight.  The front end moves around under braking more than the Dunlop, which amplifies the light rear moving around.  They force you to be a little smoother with the initial application of the brakes.  Other than that, the mid-corner grip and drive out are confidence inspiring....I'd like to make the switch, but keep coming back to Dunlop mainly for the savings with take-offs.

I don't know the diameters of the Q3's offhand, but I've swapped between 190/60 GPA's, 190/55 slicks and the Pirelli with no geometry adjustment.  It's not ideal; the GPA's are about 5mm taller in the rear (10mm taller diameter vs the slicks) and I forget the size difference with the Pirelli's, but it never bothered me.

Haven't heard anything else about changes to the groups/advancement at Mid-O, so I'm assuming it will be life as usual. 

[Trackbikez]

2 hours ago, Limitedslip7 said:

I ran Q3's the year before last and they were great. Was running 1:44-1:45s on them for several days then lost the front end. I wouldn't mind running them again but I figure the extra $100 is worth the extra security and confidence that the DOT race rubber would give. 

Full disclosure... I'm not running a matched set, just a Q3 rear.  My front is a 2CT, and I'm not sure if I'll ever kill that thing.  

The 2CT had a few thousand street miles on it before i converted the bike to track-only, then has been through 2 seasons worth of trackdays (I'm on my third Q3 rear), and the 2CT barely looks used.

[F4iguy]

37 minutes ago, Trackbikez said:

Full disclosure... I'm not running a matched set, just a Q3 rear.  My front is a 2CT, and I'm not sure if I'll ever kill that thing.  

The 2CT had a few thousand street miles on it before i converted the bike to track-only, then has been through 2 seasons worth of trackdays (I'm on my third Q3 rear), and the 2CT barely looks used.

I've run mismatched tires - brands, models within brand, different profiles.  No suspension adjustments.  No issues that I could tell.  Not down to the low 40's, though.  High 40's for now.

[rusty]

If you run 1:44 and lost front then it's not the tire,it's either bas suspension set up or you screw up.the tire is good for mid 30s.

With 44s you not going put enough heat on race tires and you will be sliding.you better off with street /track tires.

There is another thread about your question.nothing is getting short.7/20 minutes sessions.

[TwiztedRabbit]

i agree with this... mid 44's is going to be tought o keep heat in a full blown race tire... the q3's and new power supersports are amazing tires will last a good long time and  grip like hell

[RHill]

I disagree about keeping heat in the tire....is someone running a 2 minute lap going to slide off the track?  Lap times, heat generation and traction requirements all go hand in hand.  The only detriment to a race tire is the extra cost, not reduced traction at any pace.  You are going to be sliding around Mid-O on a cold morning in any case.

[redkow97]

Every tire has a finite amount of traction.  I would run Q3's until they're consistently sliding for you.  Even a full-blown slick is going to do that at some point.  May as well learn to deal with it at a lower price-point and at a slower pace.

[Moto-Brian]

On 4/26/2016 at 10:21 PM, RHill said:

without some significant suspension issues and with a flip, you will get 5 days easy out of a gpa rear into the 1:30's at Mid-O.  

I always planned for 4 days with a flip on a take-off gpa and got more than expected. That is on mixed abrasion tracks(not jennings), but I also tend to wear DOT tires down past the bars to a slick.

1:30 you won't get 5 days.  1:39, maybe.  If you are between 1:30-1:34, forget it.

[Moto-Brian]

20 hours ago, RHill said:

I disagree about keeping heat in the tire....is someone running a 2 minute lap going to slide off the track?  Lap times, heat generation and traction requirements all go hand in hand.  The only detriment to a race tire is the extra cost, not reduced traction at any pace.  You are going to be sliding around Mid-O on a cold morning in any case.

Rusty is correct.  You will lose heat in a race tire unless you have the pace.  It's simple...  You are not scrubbing the tire enough to maintain the heat.  Think about this - it is 40 degrees out and you are running on a fully heated race tire.  You run a 20 minute session at :39-:40 pace.  Heat in the tire is lost...  Also, if you run out there and the set is fully warmed and you get stuck in traffic, the tires will cool and the feel is changed and you will need a bit of time to get to pace where the heat comes back.  If heat wasn't an issue for grip, why have warmers for race compound tires?

You don't run a fast enough pace and the tire will lose heat which can lose grip or become what some describe as slippery or moves under you.  Especially in 7 and the keyhole and carousel...

Bottom line is this.  A load of crazy info here.  Best bet at the pace of :40 plus and wanting longevity on a 600, get a set of Q3s and be done.  This whole deal of guys saying they get forever on sets of tires scares the shit out of me.  But what do I know?  I know I don't cycle my tires that often and feel that the cost of tires are relative to my pace.  I will buy good tires to run a faster pace and maintain my ability to push and work on my setup and segment times.  You can try and squeeze time out of tires, but honestly is it worth the risk? 

[TwiztedRabbit]

tires are your best insurance if you will...  do you take a chance to attempt to get one more day?  are you smart enough to back your pace down? or skilled enough to really notice the tire reaching its last bit of grip?

 

[RHill]

18 hours ago, Moto-Brian said:

Rusty is correct.  You will lose heat in a race tire unless you have the pace.  It's simple...  You are not scrubbing the tire enough to maintain the heat.  Think about this - it is 40 degrees out and you are running on a fully heated race tire.  You run a 20 minute session at :39-:40 pace.  Heat in the tire is lost...  Also, if you run out there and the set is fully warmed and you get stuck in traffic, the tires will cool and the feel is changed and you will need a bit of time to get to pace where the heat comes back.  If heat wasn't an issue for grip, why have warmers for race compound tires?

You don't run a fast enough pace and the tire will lose heat which can lose grip or become what some describe as slippery or moves under you.  Especially in 7 and the keyhole and carousel...

What? Cold tires have less grip???  No way, I bought warmers cause stands and tire socks look so pro in the paddock. 

Mid-O sucks in the cold, wet, and after car events(until the residual rubber is cleared).  Warmers and race compound tires are not going to make it any better.  When the track comes in, it is amazing and you won't be sliding anywhere on any reasonable tire in the 1:40's. 

Your scenario of 40 degrees and sub 40 pace is bullshit....you knew it when you were typing it.  Half the A group doesn't turn a sub 40 pace on a perfect day, let alone a day that is 40 degrees.  At that temp, most sane people are not going to attempt to turn a sub 40 lap for at least the first half of the day, unless they enjoy throwing motorcycles down the track.  

 

20 hours ago, Moto-Brian said:

Bottom line is this.  A load of crazy info here.  Best bet at the pace of :40 plus and wanting longevity on a 600, get a set of Q3s and be done.  This whole deal of guys saying they get forever on sets of tires scares the shit out of me.  But what do I know?  I know I don't cycle my tires that often and feel that the cost of tires are relative to my pace.  I will buy good tires to run a faster pace and maintain my ability to push and work on my setup and segment times.  You can try and squeeze time out of tires, but honestly is it worth the risk? 

Bottom line, you consider 5 days out of a rear (with a flip) at mid-o running a mid to upper 40's pace to be "forever" and it scares the shit out of you?  

Or are you talking about the 14 day front UK slick that I bought from you?  I agree that was forever and I wouldn't recommend it, but it was far from scary.  The tire was perfect condition and I wanted to feel the front fade.  As I already said, 1:2 ratio front:rear is what I run; as scary/risky as that is.

Or the 3rd option, you just want to type a bunch and start drama.

 

16 hours ago, TwiztedRabbit said:

tires are your best insurance if you will...  do you take a chance to attempt to get one more day?  are you smart enough to back your pace down? or skilled enough to really notice the tire reaching its last bit of grip?

Agreed; and that is the reason I switched to race compound tires.  Had Q2's unexpectedly let loose on me a couple times.  GPA's (and Pirelli DOT's in my limited experience) fade consistently; the fade is something you can feel and know where the tire is, instead of looking at it and guessing.  Q3's could be different, never been on one.  

If you are measuring tire life in days and you don't have the option to change or have a spare....get a new tire.  If you are questioning the tire....get a new tire.  If you are not smart enough to back down in less than ideal conditions...get a new hobby or good insurance.  If your not skilled enough...get a new tire and get on track more.

[jschaf]

IMHO, tires that slide easier will teach you what you need to know. If you're competing that's one thing but track days are another thing. Q3s are good enough for me right now. If you are afraid to slide Q3s you shouldn't be riding a higher spec tire. IMHO.

[J_Copeland]

I seen Josh Hayes run 1:30's pace on race slicks with a light rain.

But then again,it's Josh Hayes !