Mowgli1647545497 Posted October 21, 2004 Report Share Posted October 21, 2004 Apparently Ford has used hypereutectic pistons and not forged units, with EXTREMELY small ringlands in the new Mustang GT engine. The top ring is less than .100 inches from the top of the piston in 2 areas, and .200 or so in other areas. Ford has also used a cast iron ring land, which is then cast into the piston. I'm not entirely sure of the process they use, but the piston itself is made of 2 materials. While I agree that yes that is great for engineering efficiency and I'm sure helps their engine rev happily and freely and also helps them get 300hp n/a out of those little 4.6s it won't hold boost well at all. That mean anyone looking to boost their 05 better just invest in some pistons up front and save yourself the headache? That Sucks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
recklessOP Posted October 21, 2004 Report Share Posted October 21, 2004 saw the post on CC. sucks... fuel gets trapped down there. moving the top ring up helps reduce emissions... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest stevil Posted October 21, 2004 Report Share Posted October 21, 2004 Maybe another little reason is to help boost sales of Cobras, deterring those that go for aftermarket boost from the new GT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
03STEED Posted October 21, 2004 Report Share Posted October 21, 2004 Procharger is going to have an 05 at the SEMA show in Vegas, only a few weeks away. Whipple already has a design for it too.. doesn't look like a problem to me... By the way the Whipple for the 05 GT looks to be kick ass... http://www.whipplesuperchargers.com/product.asp?ProdID=1208 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razorback Posted October 21, 2004 Report Share Posted October 21, 2004 The 96-04s also had the hypereutectic internals that suck. Even the 96-04s are a time bomb on boost without a forged bottom. The pistons and rings just are not designed for the type of pressure boost creates making them very prone to cracking. You can throw a blower on any 96-04, but it's just a ticking time bomb that you never know when it's gonna go. There have been isolated cases out there of stockers running on boost for years and years, and then others, that even with a good tune, blow up within a couple months, so it's always a good idea to do a forged rebuild before a blower on these motors, or at the very least have a fund sitting in the bank for when that sucker goes, because it WILL go, it's just a matter of time. smile.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave1647545494 Posted October 21, 2004 Report Share Posted October 21, 2004 even with a higher top ring land it should be ok as long as theres enough fuel timing is reasonable and it doesn't detonate. I'm getting away with it. smile.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stolen 5.0 Posted October 21, 2004 Report Share Posted October 21, 2004 too bad u need a new ecu to even mod them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razorback Posted October 21, 2004 Report Share Posted October 21, 2004 Originally posted by Stolen 5.0: too bad u need a new ecu to even mod themI heard vaguely about that on another message board. Do you know enough about it to explain exactly how Ford set this up? Why exactly is there need for a different PCM -- why doesn't the stock ECM allow mods? If this is truly the case, Ford will surely be discouraging many individuals from buying this product. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest sixpackstang Posted October 22, 2004 Report Share Posted October 22, 2004 They removed the J-3 slot on the ecu that you would normally put a chip into. So any mod you do that requires tuning from a chip is now complicated. I'm sure someone will figure out another way though... Now that I think about it, why not just use a flash programmer? [ 22. October 2004, 03:15 AM: Message edited by: sixpackstang ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OGRE Posted October 22, 2004 Report Share Posted October 22, 2004 Originally posted by Mowgli: ... where was that quote from, I read that the short-block for the 05 is identical to the mach 1. also, Brandon is right, people have been already losing ring lands for a long time now with the 99-04 models + boost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jpurdy2003 Posted October 22, 2004 Report Share Posted October 22, 2004 Originally posted by Razorback: If this is truly the case, Ford will surely be discouraging many individuals from buying this product.However, Ford can get away with it since your only other V8, RWD option in the price range is the GTO. God bless lack of competition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
03STEED Posted October 22, 2004 Report Share Posted October 22, 2004 I say this is BS.. you got Roush and Saleen putting blowers on them, already mentioned Procharger and Whipple, there are going to be a ton of these cars at SEMA and i'm sure most of them will be blown!! SCT has already been putting tunes on the 05's too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OGRE Posted October 22, 2004 Report Share Posted October 22, 2004 Originally posted by The Anti-Role Model: However, Ford can get away with it since your only other V8, RWD option in the price range is the GTO. God bless lack of competition. if you call 8 to 10 thousand bucks more (in the same price range. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razorback Posted October 22, 2004 Report Share Posted October 22, 2004 Originally posted by The Anti-Role Model: However, Ford can get away with it since your only other V8, RWD option in the price range is the GTO. God bless lack of competition. Nah, I'd never buy a car I wanted to modify brand new. If this is how things are going to be, I'll stick with my 94-04 body style until the end of time and just do engine build ups w/ power adders for a helluva lot cheaper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mowgli1647545497 Posted October 22, 2004 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2004 Originally posted by 03STEED: I say this is BS.. you got Roush and Saleen putting blowers on them, already mentioned Procharger and Whipple, there are going to be a ton of these cars at SEMA and i'm sure most of them will be blown!! SCT has already been putting tunes on the 05's too. Yes, but I'm betting the Roush and Saleen kits include pistons at the very least. As for the supercharger vendors of course they'll sell you anything, regardless of wether or not you grenade your engine, they just want something on the market NOW. When, in a few months if it becomes irrefutabley proven on the street that you need also forged internals to blow them, THEN you'll see the vendors start offering that too, as an extra $... I'm still hopeful though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurt B. Posted October 22, 2004 Report Share Posted October 22, 2004 Ford cheaps out again. Should be no surprise there to anyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miller Posted October 22, 2004 Report Share Posted October 22, 2004 Thats too bad, By the way what is the base price on those new mustangs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
recklessOP Posted October 23, 2004 Report Share Posted October 23, 2004 Originally posted by Mowgli: As for the supercharger vendors of course they'll sell you anything, regardless of wether or not you grenade your engine, they just want something on the market NOW. When, in a few months if it becomes irrefutabley proven on the street that you need also forged internals to blow them, THEN you'll see the vendors start offering that too, as an extra $...what he said... smile.gif Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ranger_Man Posted October 23, 2004 Report Share Posted October 23, 2004 oh sweet jesus no! you have to buy pistons for safey under boost?!?! OMG NOEZ!! or you could just wait for the next cobra, which will probably be supercharged just like the last... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stolen 5.0 Posted October 24, 2004 Report Share Posted October 24, 2004 the ecu is called the "blackwood". when it sense's and increasing amount of torque caused by performance modification the computer will go into limp mode. dealership can fix that for a price. the ecu's can be flashed to accept new mods, but who wants to pay for a flash all the time or buy the equipment. but also for a cost there are aftermarkets ecu's being produced Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffrey Posted October 24, 2004 Report Share Posted October 24, 2004 Originally posted by Stolen 5.0: the ecu is called the "blackwood". when it sense's and increasing amount of torque caused by performance modification the computer will go into limp mode. dealership can fix that for a price. the ecu's can be flashed to accept new mods, but who wants to pay for a flash all the time or buy the equipment. but also for a cost there are aftermarkets ecu's being producedFord really is trying to fuck themselves over aren't they? People have been moddifying Mustangs since they came out, and making it more complicated to modify them is going to make people not want to buy them, I guess they will sell enough V-6 cars to rental agencies to not really give a shit. I am starting to believe that Ford does not care about it's performance enthusiest anymore, that may explain the Lightning situation too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nitrousbird Posted October 24, 2004 Report Share Posted October 24, 2004 I'm sure someone will develop a flash editor for the new Mustang. The problem is that takes some time. It's not hard at all to find flash editing software for the LT1/LS1 (LS1_Edit, LT1_Edit, Tunercat, etc.). Of course Hyperjunk and Jet will probably come out with some POS hand held device soon, but those things can't be taken seriously. True editing software will probably take a year or so to be developed (my guess, could be wrong). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PonyPimpstress1647545491 Posted October 24, 2004 Report Share Posted October 24, 2004 I don't think that the pistons are as weak as everyone is making them out to be. A friend of mine ran a 250 shot thru his car on those same kind of pistons... didn't hurt them for a while. Kurtis... I don't think that they are going the cheap route. Maybe they were thinking about weight... and god forbid... something a little different? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jpurdy2003 Posted October 24, 2004 Report Share Posted October 24, 2004 Originally posted by mesteno: if you call 8 to 10 thousand bucks more (in the same price range.My point exactly. If you want a V8 powered, RWD car, it's either stang, GTO, or vette: all very distinctly different cars. Originally posted by Stolen 5.0: the ecu is called the "blackwood". when it sense's and increasing amount of torque caused by performance modification the computer will go into limp mode. dealership can fix that for a price. the ecu's can be flashed to accept new mods, but who wants to pay for a flash all the time or buy the equipment. but also for a cost there are aftermarkets ecu's being producedFour words: stand alone engine management. It's not just for ricers anymore. I feel for you guys. One of the key selling points of the Mustang has always been the fact that it was easy to modify. When Bill Ford sees the V8 sales floundering and (due to the soiling of the car's image as a proven performer) the dealers basically bribing people to buy even the V6's, there will be change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
03STEED Posted October 24, 2004 Report Share Posted October 24, 2004 The new Mustang is actually more mod friendly then any other Mustang ever.. Just wait and see.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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