People bitching about spray

[desperado]

After reading this post in another thread I figured it was time to comment and set people straight about nitrous as a power adder.

 

Originally posted by Andy F.:

this nitrous shit is getting out of hand.

Why is it out of hand?

 

You can build a motor to make power a number of ways. You can put the compression ratio, head flow and cam required to make the power NA that you are after or you can turbocharge or supercharge your car with a combination of cam and compression ratio that will make the same power or you can use nitrous and the proper intake cam and compression ratio combination for it.

 

The thing with nitrous is it's cheap relatively speaking. The proshot that I have will jet out to 450 HP and and cost under $1000

 

A roots blower that will produce that power increase is $4000 minimum.

 

As far as a turbo kit. What kit? It's all fabricated, $4000 ain't even close for a V-8 twin turbo setup that will add 450 ponies.

 

So we come back to nitrous. The reason it's got a bad rap is that it's too easy to obtain. You want 500 ponies, you go lay your bucks down at Jegs and walk out with a box of nozzles, hoses, jets, a tank and some other shit and you go home. When you get there, you pull your intake, drill holes for the spray nozzles, or in the case of a plate system you just pull the carb off. Put in some longer carb studs in the intake, bolt it back together. At that point you only need to run a few wires, a hose or two and mount the tank.

 

And you have 450 ponies extra at the press of a button. Problem is that it didn't take any effort to get there, it isn't a big expense so you don't worry about what's under it (the rest of the motor). This is where the problem starts. NO other power adder is as simple to increase, or is as effective when increased as nitrous oxide is. If you jet it to 200 to start, it's great for a while but you know that you have the jets sitting in the garage for 250 and 300. What does it take to get a turbo that's adding 200 horse and make it 300? What ever it is it don't come as cheap as $20 buck for bigger jets for a nitrous kit. So which do you put in? the 250's or the 300's?? Neither! You go to Jegs and get the jets for 400 and put them in. Mind you the motor has 200000 miles on it, it's got a stock crank rods and pistons. You drop in the jets, crack open the tank, pull to the line and purge it, drop the hammer and squeeze the button at 3500 RPM, 1 second later you watch engine parts that you never see unless the engine is all apart coming out the hood.

 

It's not any different with any other power adder.

If you were to take a set of SB2 heads, the cam and intake required and slapped it all on a stock Chevy motor it would turn 9500 RPM till the crank broke or a rod snapped. But if you took a set of smog heads and cam and put them on a NASCAR motor the valves would still float at 6500 RPM and the bottom end would be fine.

 

Thing is that no one would put a set of SB2 heads, or a roots blower or a twin turbo setup on a stock engine, and if they did they would never expect it to last.

But how many guys do you know that tried to run a 250 shot on a high milage motor that had stock internals, then bitch that the spray blew his motor. Got news for em, Nitrous didn't blow his motor, stupidity blew his motor, nitrous was just the tool used to do it. Putting a monster shot of spray down a stock motor is about as intelligent as pouring sand down the carb, only sand will not make it fail as fast.

 

Running big nitrous is not for guys that are running around junk yards looking for a set of camel hump heads and a forged crank out of a muscle car engine.

 

So no matter the power adder, if the rest of the motor ain't up to the challenge, you WILL be experiencing an oil pan failure at some point. Failure to contain the parts that is.

 

[ 06. July 2005, 08:48 PM: Message edited by: desperado ]

[Guest Removed]

Just spray it,it's cheaper if you know what you are doing!!!!!

 

DAMN GOOD POST

[nurkvinny]

Originally posted by desperado:

Problem is that it didnt' take any effort to get there,

That is my only bitch about bottles. But, I don't care how you make power. HP is HP. As far as "nitrous is far cheaper"... figure up initial costs of a bottle vs. a blower. Now, add $40 a fill times 2 years, and see which is REALLY cheaper.

[Guest mudbutt]

there is a cheaper way to increase your turbocharged power 200 hp if you planned the kit out right, it is $10 in parts from home depot to make a boost controller. Building a motor for Nitrous is one thing, but fox body guys acting like they are hot shit after they add a $500 nitrous kit just make me chuckle.

[88lx5oh]

Originally posted by Mud Butt:

there is a cheaper way to increase your turbocharged power 200 hp if you planned the kit out right, it is $10 in parts from home depot to make a boost controller. Building a motor for Nitrous is one thing, but fox body guys acting like they are hot shit after they add a $500 nitrous kit just make me chuckle.

i dont think i was hot shit, but a $500 nitrous kit made my stock 88 gt put down 380rwhp and 540ftlb i think thats pretty damn good. and fox cars can take alot of spray on a stock motor and i have proven it. i sprayed 175 shot on a nx wet kit with no tune, stock plugs, stock timing, stock ignition, stock motor, stock fuel pump on 94 sunoco and she loved every minute of it.

[Guest Removed]

either way ,it takes money to go fast!

[Guest mudbutt]

Originally posted by Hoblick:

i dont think i was hot shit, but a $500 nitrous kit made my stock 88 gt put down 380rwhp and 540ftlb i think thats pretty damn good. and fox cars can take alot of spray on a stock motor and i have proven it. i sprayed 175 shot on a nx wet kit with no tune, stock plugs, stock timing, stock ignition, stock motor, stock fuel pump on 94 sunoco and she loved every minute of it.

Naa, I never said you thought you were a hot shot or even all fox owners with spray. There are just some that act like they have built the ultamate car when the only work they did was tap a hole in the intake. Fox bodies arent the only group with this complex, but they tend to be the worst.

[88lx5oh]

Originally posted by Mud Butt:

Naa, I never said you thought you were a hot shot or even all fox owners with spray. There are just some that act like they have built the ultamate car when the only work they did was tap a hole in the intake. Fox bodies arent the only group with this complex, but they tend to be the worst.

i definately like spray, and if you know what your doing it can be used effectively... but id way rather do a turbo setup as you have. after riding in a few turbo stangs... nothign compares

[Guest mudbutt]

Yeah, having a turbo setup must be nice, sucks that Im going to have to sell the car as soon as I assemble and tune it.

[desperado]

Originally posted by Mud Butt:

there is a cheaper way to increase your turbocharged power 200 hp if you planned the kit out right, it is $10 in parts from home depot to make a boost controller. Building a motor for Nitrous is one thing, but fox body guys acting like they are hot shit after they add a $500 nitrous kit just make me chuckle.

NO, if you planned the kit out right it will already have a boost controller on it. And how the hell would plan a kit from the get go that was only doing 50% of what it could do. Even if you did, which would be silly, if you knew it would do it, you would turn it up exceeding the maximum that the motor it was on could deal wit and you are still sweeping the parts off the road. Your way just costs more. And I am talking about new parts from NOS. If we want to go hillbilly, you pull the jets and find out what size hole they need for a 400 shot, go two rows over in the same tool dept that you are buying your pressure regulator from and get the right size drill bit, drill the jets and you are there.

[Guest mudbutt]

add the cost of fills and tell me it is cheaper. Keith, you can fabricate, you of all people cant tell me that you cant do a turbo setup for less than a good n2o kit and a year or so of fills.

[Sam1647545489]

Originally posted by Vinny:

That is my only bitch about bottles. But, I don't care how you make power. HP is HP. As far as "nitrous is far cheaper"... figure up initial costs of a bottle vs. a blower. Now, add $40 a fill times 2 years, and see which is REALLY cheaper.

It only cost me 10$ to fill my bottle. smile.gif

[desperado]

Originally posted by Vinny:

That is my only bitch about bottles. But, I don't care how you make power. HP is HP. As far as "nitrous is far cheaper"... figure up initial costs of a bottle vs. a blower. Now, add $40 a fill times 2 years, and see which is REALLY cheaper.

Vince I do see your point, but figuring that you would need a 6-71 minimum, carbs, distributor you are gonna have $4000 in it and that will get you 400 to 500 HP. A 400 HP plate system from Jegs is $600 and two fills a month at $50 will still take 3 years to break even, and the blower motor is still offsetting the cost some by needing extra fuel at all times. There is a point that you are going to break even, but what does a blower require in maintanence as opposed to nitrous? I don't know the answer to this, but I am betting that the blower is more over time. And a blower will wear out at some point. ONly thing to go wrong with Nitrous is the jets and solinoids. Of course a sticking N2O solinoid will ruin a motor in short order, the only thing a blower can do to screw up a motor is to have a rotor shatter and be injested in the motor.

[desperado]

Originally posted by Mud Butt:

add the cost of fills and tell me it is cheaper. Keith, you can fabricate, you of all people cant tell me that you cant do a turbo setup for less than a good n2o kit and a year or so of fills.

Sure I can. But there are ALOT of guys that can't. Please understand that I am not attacking any other power adder. I would love to have a big fawlking Jimmie blower sitting on a 540 cube big block setting in my Camaro right now, way more than I want this spray kit and a small block. My point of all this is I hear guys saying that nitrous blows motors, or only ricers use nitrous, or 10 other slams on using spray that have no bearing on reality. And the only reson that it is getting bad mouthed so much is that it's SO easy to slap on a kit and go to a big shot that guys dont consider that the motor will not take it, and it goes south. It would be just as easy for you or me, because we can fabricate, to go find a turbo off a semi truck, grab some piping and the welder and fab up a turbo installation for an otherwise stock 350 that would blow the motor just as quick as putting a 400 shot of spray on it. The only thing I am getting at it that ANYONE in a few hours can hang a 400 shot plate system on a car, it takes a week or so of work to put together a reasonable turbo kit, and while we are at it, we would put the internals required so that the motor wouldn't come apart. These nitrous guys that blow shit up anre not taking that extra step and then blaming it on the nitrous. But the reality is that if you or I built that same trubo kit I talked about before, they could take it right home and bolt it on and blow their shit up just as easy. Then they would bitch that turbos such and blow shit up. The turbo kit didn't do it, neither did the nitrous. The guy that put in on without making sure the motor would take 400 HP over what it's dong now is the one to blame. But this is America after all, it's never our own fault.

[nurkvinny]

2 fills a month is kidding yourself. 1 bottle = 1 night of playing or 1 night at the track. $10 a fill can not be achieved my most of us. The scenario I was thinking about was not a roots blower. A blow-through centrifugal supercharger, mated with the carb I have sitting on my S-10, with a 10lb pulley set-up would not hit 400-500hp. But, that extra power would be on tap each and everytime I mash the throttle. Upkeep = new supercharger oil every season, and a rebuild every 2 to 3 seasons. If you're running that much bottle, you'd want a fresh set up just as often. Figure in the facts that I am not heading to Jegs (or wherever for refills), don't have to worry about warmers, purges, etc, the simple coolness-factor of the 'whine', give me a $2200 blower any day of the week. To each their own, though. My preference would be a well built small block + supercharger - bottle.

 

Gives me some ideas. smile.gif

[desperado]

Actually Car Craft just did a 700 HP with a D-1SC and a blow-through with a carb. Now what that would cost to replicate, I have no idea. And yes that whine is nice. And if I had to money all at once, it would be a blower, I personally prefer the roots type though. Turbos are nice, spray will get it done, but nothing says performance like a 6-71 hanging out of the hood with dual holleys sitting up top.

[Guest Removed]

HOT ROD MAG

big block + blower(8-71) + magic bottle=1000 HP

cost just over $14,000

 

Now westside build up

Junkyard motor +jegs goddies(spray and some bolt on's) = a fun time racing..

 

either way ....we should all be having fun....

[Crash1647545504]

Wow... Desperado made a good post.

[Lustalbert]

bottles are for babies.

turbo/blown efi big blocks are the shit.

[el aguila]

Who cares

[ZYUL8TR]

Originally posted by gearhead559:

,it takes money to go fast!

Except for you! You barter your way through junk yards.

[Guest Removed]

Originally posted by GearHead560:

Except for you! You barter your way through junk yards.

AND? Jealous....

[Guest rperry74]

You know, theres nothing like walking off on a car that is being sprayed...in a car that is neither sprayed, turboed, blown, whatever. Gives you sort of a "badass" complex, you know?

[nurkvinny]

Originally posted by desperado:

Actually Car Craft just did a 700 HP with a D-1SC and a blow-through with a carb.

Cool. I meant I wouldn't get the additional 400hp that may be possible as easy as with the bottle. I would be embarrassed if I built a blown small block, and came out under 500hp. smile.gif

[desperado]

Yeah, agreed Vince, hell 700 or so is about a practical limit for a smallblock that's not realy over the top. I realize it can be done. But in street cars, unless you are building NASCAR motors and putting them in your street cars, that is the magic number with anything that came factory from the big three.