Selecting a good project car under $5000 - NEW SCHOOL DOMESTICS

[SupraGlue]

Okay, this is an interesting topic that seems to come up whenever we all get together, so I thought I'd kick off a discussion with some of my opinions on this topic. Some of you may have cars to add that I don't mention, so feel free to chime in.

 

Something you always hear is the guy who has a nice little daily driver commuter car who wants to make it faster. My opinion is: DON'T!! You have a nice, new, quiet efficient, reliable car to get to work in. Don't turn it into a project! Spend a little cash on one of the diamonds in the rough I've listed below, and put together something that doesn't need to get you to your job everyday, or take you and your girlfriend out on weekends.

 

I say this for several reasons. First, there is a plethora of very interesting performance cars on the used market that are cheap, cheap, cheap! Everyone wants jacked up station wagons (nee SUVs) right now, for some reason, and we are the beneficiaries of their stupidity. There are major deals to be had on fast machinery.

 

Second, your grocery getter was not designed with high horsepower in mind and the associated abuse that comes with employing said power. You begin to find that you are replacing perfectly good parts on your car because the were never designed to do what you're trying to make them do. Your boss will not be sympathetic when you explain that you couldn't come to work because you had to replace the clutch on your car after a weekend of street racing.

 

So what to do? Start looking for one of the following cars. I've added notes on each one, plus info on who you should talk to on the list to learn more about what you might be getting yourself into. smile.gif

 

Before beginning any project, be sure to do plenty of online research, and find people familiar with the cars to help you through the pitfalls and problems. All cars have them, and it's best if you don't get surprised.

 

NEW SCHOOL (1980-present, used under $5k):

 

There are a nice selection of both imports and domestics that can be made alarmingly quick for surprisingly little money. Yes, many of the cheaper examples will require some work, but we all love working on cars, right? smile.gif

 

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FORD:

 

Mustang 5.0 - When talking blue oval, there are three words to know -- "Five-point-oh". The 5.0 Mustangs are some of the cheapest and easiest budget performers to build out there. Brian (Mobile Chassis Dyno) has one that I understand was literally built out of junkyard parts that runs in the 13's. There is a huge aftermarket for this car, and a wide variety of performance recepies, ranging from mild to extremely wild. Looks are subjective, and some people find them highly appealing while others are unimpressed. There are two flavors; the plain-wrapper LX, with their a trunk or hatch, and the pimped-out GT. I believe that the lightest is the LX with trunk. It is also the least likely to call attention to itself. Depening on your preference, that is either good of bad. smile.gif

 

On this board, you want to talk to Brian or Chris (changes his screen name daily, look for the white Pontiac GTP in his sig).

 

 

Mustang SVO - Sometimes forgotten in the shadow of the 5.0 is the 2.3 Turbo Mustang SVO. In my opinion, it is the coolest looking of the Fox body Mustang, and makes for an interesting project. (I'm actually not sure if they can be found under $5k, or not) The 2.3 Turbo does have good performance potential, though not to the level of the 5.0. Chris' dad has one, so talk to Chris for more info.

 

 

Mercury Capri - Sister car to the 5.0, but it sold in far less numbers. Interesting mostly because it's different from the legions of 5.0 Mustangs out there.

 

 

Merkur XR4Ti - From what I understand, this car has the same engine as the SVO Mustang. Styling is, ah, unique, and would make for one serious sleeper.

 

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CHEVROLET/PONTIAC/OLDS:

 

Third gen Camaro/Firebird - Built from 1982-1992, there are millions of these cars out there in a variety of configurations: Trans-Am, Z28, Sport Coupe, Rally Sport, IROC-Z, GTA, Firebird, Firebird Formula. Some of the styling of certain years is questionable in my book, but there are enough different models that you're likely find one you like. If you get one WITHOUT the TPI 5.7 (introduced in 1986), plan on doing an engine swap ASAP. The 305's are dogs, no matter what injection system they have (early cars have carbs), and the 2.8 V6 is a hopeless cause. The V6 cars are light, however, and came stripped of options, so they can make for good engine swap candidates. Personally, I like the style of the early "Knight Rider" Trans Ams (1982) and the Firebird Formula. The GTA has a nice look, as do the 86-87 Iroc-Z cars. The main issue with them all is the puny 7.5" rear end. If you get down much below 13.0 or mid 12's, your odds of breaking it start getting really high. Big blocks can bolt in, as can a variety of GM trannys. There is a driveshaft that exists in the early models that allow for a drop in of a TH350. Another conversion I'd seriously consider is putting the LT1 from the 1993-up F-body in one.

 

There are a few people on the board with experience in Third Gens. I'm one of them. smile.gif

 

 

Monte Carlo SS - In the 80's came with the 305, so it's a swapper candidate. Better rear end for draggers than the F-body, but a heavier car. The 8.5" rear will fit in one. I think I'd be tempted to go with a big block crate motor if I were going to build up this car. Similar cars would be the Pontiac Grand Prix from the 80's and the Olds Cutlass. Some of those cars were really loaded with features and might make a nice cruiser/racer. T-tops, climate control, power seats, etc. could all be found. Olds was also still doing the "Hurst/Olds" and "442" cosmetic packages into the 80s, if you're into that kind of thing. Stock engines are all dogs, so just like the Monte, motor swaps apply here.

 

 

El Camino - Yes, the "cark". Room for big V-8s, and I believe the same rear suspension setup as the Monte.

 

Kenny is the man around here to talk to about these.

 

 

Fiero - This one is also a swapper candidate. The "best" motor it ever came with was the 2.8 Multiport found in the late Fiero GTs. The last of these are the best to get, since many of the originial Chevette parts (yes, I DID say Chevette) were replaced with new designs. Unfortunately, I think that the earlier, less adorned Fieros were cleaner and more attractive.

 

The guy to talk to on here about Fiero swaps is 1320n12. He has a turboed 3.4l V6 in his.

 

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BUICK:

 

Grand National/Turbo Regal - Under $5k?? It's been done, or so I hear. Do I really need to say much about this car? Perhaps the most straight line performance potential of any car ever to come out of Detroit, the 3.8 V6 Turbo was used as the basis for Indy Car engines in the late 80's and early 90's. Pure badness.

 

Talk to Turbo Prick to learn more about talking shi..err..I mean, building a fast Buick.

 

 

Regal - Like the Chevy, Pontiac and Olds mid-size sedans, the RWD Regals are nice engine swap candidates. If you're going to do it, go big. 455ci is a nice starting point. smile.gif

 

Speaking of 455, on this board, talk to Regal455.

 

 

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DODGE/CHRYSLER/PLYMOUTH:

 

The 1980's and 90's were rough on Mopar fans, and there's not much to see there. All of the budget racers you can build from this era are FWD turbo cars. We've all seen the videos of the 10 second K-car, so you know the 2.2l turbo Dodge is capable when built correctly. Nearly all of their cars from the early 80's on are based off the same platform, so tons of stuff is interchangeable. Here are some of the interesting ones:

 

Shelby anything - There were Omnis, Chargers, Daytonas and probably a couple of others I'm forgetting about. Ol' Shel massaged them a little, changed the turbochargers and wrote his name all over the car.

 

 

Turbo II anything - Turbo II was a step up from Turbo I, but I'm not much of an expert on these cars. Tons of them in junkyards and the turbos are cheap. I don't know anyone who has built one, so do your websurfing to learn more.

 

 

Le Baron - The early 80's Le Baron was a very square rear-driver that can hold a Mopar V8. You'd have to love the style of the car to bother with the swap. Later Le Barons were based on the K-car platform like everything else, and could be found as convertibles.

 

 

TC by Maserati - A bunch of Maser badges and some cosmetic "upgrades" on a K-car based Le Baron convertible. Think of it as a poor man's Cadillac Allante. A very poor man.

 

 

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DIAMOND-STAR MOTORS (DSM):

 

Now we can have some fun! Right in there on bang for the buck with the "Five-point-ohs" are the DSM cars. Tons of fun and performance potential.

 

Talon, Laser, Eclipse - Lasers are FWD, Talons are AWD. Eclipses came in both. They all use Mitsu engines and turbos. With turbo upgrades, the sky is really the limit with how far you want to go with these cars. Prices on a used Talon can go as low as $1500, which is killer for what you get.

 

There are a number of hardcore DSM guys on here, so talk to one of them.

 

 

Colt Turbo, ? - There was also a Colt Turbo and a twin car whose name escapes me. These were 1.6l Turbo, FWD. Mitsu engines and turbos. Not really done much since the Talons/Eclipses have more potential and AWD. Would be interesting if someone gave you one, I guess.

 

 

Mitsubishi Starion, Chysler Conquest - Turbo sports car that preceeded the 3000GT and Stealth. I really like how these cars look. One of them was in a Cannonball Run movie, if you ever saw that. They're not common, and from talking with Nick, I understand that they tend to crack cylinder heads when boost is raised. It would be interesting to find out if a later engine from a Stealth/3000GT would fit in one, since they're rear-wheel drive.

 

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Okay, that's enough for today. Coming tomorrow: NEW SCHOOL IMPORTS (1980-present)

 

Comments, questions, additions, corrections, etc. are welcome. Remember, this is for cars that can be had under $5000 in reasonable condition.

[Doug1647545489]

thats y I'm getting a 5.0 The grand am isn't worth modding

[SupraGlue]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Doug:

thats y I'm getting a 5.0 The grand am isn't worth modding<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

 

Wait until I'm done with the imports.

 

You are very correct about not modding the Grand Am, btw.

 

[ 24 January 2002: Message edited by: Jedi Master ]

[kenny]

Very nice list. We all know my personal favorite.

 

As for the Elky suspension being the same as the Monte, it's the same car. My car shares a frame with the Monte Carlo, Malibu (speaking of Malibu, you forgot that ) and basically every other G-Body.

[Mallard]

My personal favorite on the list is the Fiero (laugh here). They're cheap and most parts are easy to find. The harder to find parts are mostly on the 88's since this was the first and only year they had a new suspension design. But there are plenty of aftermarket parts for these cars and with a little work an early fiero (with the chevette suspension) can be made to handle better than an 88.

 

The best recorded number ive seen so far is 1.14g's on the skidpad with a mildly modded 88 GT. This car also has a Lingenfelter corvette V8 in it. (A few pics can be seen in Hot Rod Mag. from a few months ago)

 

Also, just about any GM motor can be put in them. I've seen them with Quad 4's, 3.4's, 3.4DOHC, 3.5DOHC, 3.8, 3.8 S/C, 350's, 405's, 455's, and Northstars. I've also seen pics of a GN motor in one, and a 1st gen DSM motor in one.

 

If you can't tell, I know a lot about these cars and hope to have mine by this summer if all goes right.

[Doug1647545489]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jedi Master:

 

Wait until I'm done with the imports.

 

 

[ 24 January 2002: Message edited by: Jedi Master ]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

 

 

I've made up my mind 89 LX 5.0. Now I just have to start saving smile.gif

[SupraGlue]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Shaft:

My personal favorite on the list is the Fiero (laugh here). They're cheap and most parts are easy to find. The harder to find parts are mostly on the 88's since this was the first and only year they had a new suspension design. But there are plenty of aftermarket parts for these cars and with a little work an early fiero (with the chevette suspension) can be made to handle better than an 88.

 

The best recorded number ive seen so far is 1.14g's on the skidpad with a mildly modded 88 GT. This car also has a Lingenfelter corvette V8 in it. (A few pics can be seen in Hot Rod Mag. from a few months ago)

 

Also, just about any GM motor can be put in them. I've seen them with Quad 4's, 3.4's, 3.4DOHC, 3.5DOHC, 3.8, 3.8 S/C, 350's, 405's, 455's, and Northstars. I've also seen pics of a GN motor in one, and a 1st gen DSM motor in one.

 

If you can't tell, I know a lot about these cars and hope to have mine by this summer if all goes right.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

 

Awesome post. That's the kind of info we need to build this into a great guide to cheap project cars. Any idea what route you would go with that?

 

Same for you, Kenny. I'm going to try and make this "guide" into a webpage after I get enough info on all the cars.

[SupraGlue]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Doug:

 

 

I've made up my mind 89 LX 5.0. Now I just have to start saving smile.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

 

Remind me to email you a photo of my Camaro's taillights...

[Mallard]

Well, my first plans would be to lower the car and Mod the suspension to get rid of "bump steer."

 

Then I'll either do a brake upgrade or a cheap engine swap. The brake upgrage I want will cost about $1200. (Stops from 60mph in just over 100ft)

 

Or I'll do an engine swap. Either a 4.9 Caddy v8, or a 3.4DOHC. The 4.9 is relativly cheap and has a lot of torque. But the 3.4 is supposedly a very easy swap and a lot of power can be brought out of this motor. Some have around 300hp n/a and one guy has over 400rwhp with an intercooled turbo.

 

I've been into these cars for a while so I have lots of plans but cashflow would slow them down. If I do have this car by summer it would be a few years before all the things I want to do can be done.

[Doug1647545489]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jedi Master:

 

Remind me to email you a photo of my Camaro's taillights... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

 

yes because the only time i'll be seeing them is in a photo

[supldys]

hey you forgot something on your list mark smile.gif

[Doug1647545489]

you also forgot a galant vr4's. sweet sleepers

[Oo0martelle0oO]

Jono I dont think he forgot it.

[MrMeanGreen]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jedi Master:

[QB]FORD:

 

Mustang SVO - Sometimes forgotten in the shadow of the 5.0 is the 2.3 Turbo Mustang SVO. In my opinion, it is the coolest looking of the Fox body Mustang, and makes for an interesting project. (I'm actually not sure if they can be found under $5k, or not) The 2.3 Turbo does have good performance potential, though not to the level of the 5.0. Chris' dad has one, so talk to Chris for more info.

 

QB]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

 

Yeah, my dad has one too smile.gif

[Doug1647545489]

yesh those 2.3 blocks are strong as hell

[Orion]

3 things.

1. mark, you are da man. thanks for doin your part to help out us dumbass "didnt ever watch dad work on cars when i was a kid" kinda guys.

2. galant vr4. damn mitsubishi and their propensity to allow themselves to be molded by the other import companies. why on earth did they do away with the vr4? as much as ive heard about this motor, from both dsm guys and everybody else, youd think theyd have kept the damn thing around. no, im not bitter.

3. anthony, that was quite possibly the dumbest joke ive ever heard outta you. id hate to think you were losin your edge.

[Dual Webers Suck]

And lets not forget the 4 cylinder 3rd gen Camaros are worthless too (yes, I had to mention them too, and yes, they made them, there's a few in J.C. Radiator now).

[Hwilli1647545487]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jedi Master:

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Talon, Laser, Eclipse - Lasers are FWD, Talons are AWD. Eclipses came in both.

 

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

 

Not to step on your toes, but all 3 came in both configurations.

[axoid]

Good list, though I think S-10/S-15 should at least be added to the list. They're cheap and plentiful and can be fitted with a V8. Also the 454 Silverado full-size pick-up, factory installed big block, need I say more.

 

Another but less likely is the older 84+ J-bodies, those are can be really cheap ($500) and the Z-24 carried the same V-6 that the Fiero GT's had.

 

[ 25 January 2002: Message edited by: Axoid / Sith Lord ]

[Nitrousbird]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 75Datsun280Z:

And lets not forget the 4 cylinder 3rd gen Camaros are worthless too (yes, I had to mention them too, and yes, they made them, there's a few in J.C. Radiator now).<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, if you are going to mention that.....let's not forget to mention that the Fox Body Mustangs were offering 4 bangers as the base engine all they way up through 93. I'll give Ford credit a bit there though, had they actually offered a V6, I bet there would be less 4.9's on the road (yes, a 302 is reall a 4.9, not a 5.0 ). People went out to buy a Fox body, drove the 4 cylinder, and said "I'm going to need that V8 over there."

 

As for the 3rd Gens....not all of them came with the 7 5/8" 10-bolt.....some came with the 8.5" 10-bolt. As for the 7 5/8" (commonly known as 7.5") being too weak to rely on in the 12's....I don't really agree with that. The 4th Gens are supposed to have a weaker one than the 3rd gens. Sam runs 12's in his without problems.....I was running 12's in mine trouble free too....then I swapped to a 12-bolt and sold my 10-bolt. And we have stick cars, which are MUCH harder on the rear-end. He runs DR's and that's what I used to run too. I'd say with an auto, a 7 5/8" is pretty much good into the 11's without worry, as long as you don't run DOT or full slicks on it.

[Jeffrey]

What you do with a 3rdgen is buy a 305 5 speed, then you look for a L98 (tuned port 350) and swap it in with a t-56 from a wrecked LT1 car. preferably a 93 cuz they had a little better ratios I believe. These cars respond to mods pretty well too. Ohh and the reason you would want to buy the 305 5 speed combo is that it makes swapping in a 6 speed really easy, and they are really cheap to buy, I am looking at one to buy right now for spring and with some work done to my 350 and searching the junkyards for a T-56 I will be ready to go. Also one word of caution to people that would like a 3rdgen is that if you get one with t-tops the very first thing that needs to be done is subframe conectors, if you plan on doing some major performance upgrades. even if you dont it still would be a good idea. If you want any more info on these cars I am pretty much a walking encyclopedia on them so just ask.

[SupraGlue]

Sweet. Awesome replies from everyone. I figured I'd make more than a couple of mistakes. smile.gif

 

First, I'm working on the imports now, so Jono, your car will get mentioned. Same for the Galant VR4, Doug.

 

Howard, I had no idea that the Talon could be had in FWD and that the Laser also came in AWD. Interesting. I'll correct that.

 

Nitrousbird, do you know which 3rd Gens came with the 8.5"? I'm guessing that the '89 Turbo TA did, any others? I've yet to break the rear end in my car, but I've been warned so darned many times about how weak it is. I know that Sam has a friend who ran 11's on one for a whole season before it finally called it in. So perhaps that point ought to be left more open. I just want people to be aware of what is generally considered the weak link of that car.

 

Found TSi, good to have another authortity on that car. I think with all of the nice parts from the 4th gen being available (T56 and LT1), plus the solid aftermarket, that we are going to see a lot of new life in the 3rd gens. Very good point about the subframe connectors. Do you know if the hard top is stiffer than the t-top car? Common sense would seem to indicate that, but I haven't driven them back-to-back in a few years (mine is hard top).

 

James, I try to forget that both GM and Ford produced their "pony cars" with anemic 4 poppers. The 4 cyl Camaro/Firebird were discontinued after 1984, I think. Anyone have a clue on when the 4 cyl Fox body finally died?

 

Axoid, as far as the S-10 and S-15, I did mean to mention them, but forgot to do a "mini-Trucks" section. smile.gif Both make excellent projects for the reasons you mentioned. Does anyone know if the Ford Ranger can fit a V-8 also?

[Jeffrey]

Actually there is a newer Ranger running around with a 355 sbc in it. Yeah the hard top cars are alot more sturdy than the T-top cars so sturdy to the point that if you want to push some serious power through the chassis you wont really need subframes but they are a good Idea anyway because once age and most of the time "cancer" sets in you will wish you had them along time ago. For some reason my IROC was very, very sturdy and stiff to the point that we were jacking the car up on all fours with it resting on jack stands at all four corners the car actually started to lift up off of the other 3 jack stands! if you have a hard top 3rdgen then you wont need to worry about it as much but it is still a good Idea, t-top cars especially ones that have been bought used and were modified I would make that a top priority like a timing belt on a DSM is!!! you will thank your self later.

[kenny]

There are swap kits for Rangers just like there are for S10's. There is plenty of room under the hood.

 

I've even seen (and raced) a Ranger with a SBC and a TH350.

[Turbotrio]

mark,

since i set the exact same "ground rules" for myself a year ago when i went car shopping ill throw in my 2 cents. i wasnt going to spend any more than $5k but i wanted something that would be fun to drive (since i was gonna be stuck in it 4+ hrs a day) but also reliable. looks really didnt matter but obviously was a plus. i started out test driving v8 foxbodys because i always loved the way they sound and its my fav body style and parts are cheap. after the 3rd one i just couldnt belive how sluggish they all felt. all three had atleast a k&n and exhaust and one had quite a bit more than that (including NOS). the torque was there so it was very easy to spin the tires but short of power-shifting the car to death it just didnt feel like you were going anywhere. and i wont even start on fit/finish. next i drove a couple 3rd gen fbodys (see above). then i started looking more at turbo cars. i test drove an awd automatic eclipse gsx and just really wasnt that impressed--mainly cuz i HATE autos. but the styling was ok and the gas mileage was sooooo much better than the big v8. soon after i stumbled upon the laser. fwd for better mpg vs the awd cars. and already had a 12.9x timeslip to its name. car only had 61k miles and was in very nice shape. no annoying squeaks or rattles or interior that looked like it was designed in the 70s. got the car NICELY modded for $5k and havent regretted it at all. the dsm aftermarket is HUGE and replacement parts are very cheap. ive put 50k HARD miles on this car over the past year and save for routine maint items (and things i voluntarily chose to replace) havent had a problem with it. stock versions can be had for less than $2k and for $5k an awd model can hang with damn near anything out there from a light. plus you have the bonus of not necessarily having to be john force to run nice times. i know im a lil biased but i get asked this question a lot too and its always a very easy answer. factor in the 25+mpg (staying out of boost of course), average ins rates, and a damn near bullet-proof motor, and you got yourself a hell of a "beater". just my opinion of course.

jeff