School levy's

[Guest stevil]

Mowgli: Fight that crap!

 

Assured Risk: Sounds like Olentangy is like New Albany, they spent millions for a fancy school yet the kids have no books, their teachers print things out or make copies.

 

Joe: If you directly make the parents pay for their own kids' education, how many are going to say "fuck it" and have little Billy drop out? This isn't higher education, it's the communities duty to provide free and public schools for kids.

 

Look at the rest of your tax money, does that go to anything you have a direct relation to? Probably not. Some goes to fire, police, roads, etc but most of it you will never see the benefits of like welfare, unemployment. If you're house never catches on fire, should you never help to pay for the fire department?

 

Clay: Sales tax is a good idea, and for more than just education. It would be very nice to cut down or eliminate income taxes and just have higher sales tax. Certain percentages would go to state and federal. It would be simple, and would help the economy with more money to be invested for those not spending.

[Guest powers]

A straight sales tax will just create a barter system and hurt the economy. IMO.

 

And renters do pay taxes indirectly. They pay rent to the landlord which has to pay taxes. Also Multifamily properties tend to be taxed quite a bit so they are doing their share.

 

I hate school levy's as much as the next guy but property taxes are something that are needed right now in our country. And that property that you hate to pay taxes on would be worth nothing if the schools in the area were not paid for by the community.

[Mowgli1647545497]

Papa points out the delicate crux: Its a compromise between making sure every child gets an education, and being free to agree (aka vote) locally to pay more locally to have the local kids get more/better education.

 

That righ there is the crux of the perplexity of the constitutional challenge to Ohio's school funding "system". Maybe I should say "practices" instead. Its the reason why Ohio hasn't bent yet to the federal courts' instruction to change the system, because people locally are saying: stay the heck out of my local business.

 

The question really is summed up like so:

 

Should people be free to vote/agree locally to pay MORE locally to have your local kids get a better education (thru levies)?

 

Its a delicate complex subject.

[Trouble Maker]

Originally posted by BIG PAPA:

And that property that you hate to pay taxes on would be worth nothing if the schools in the area were not paid for by the community.

That's a very good point. Community wise, I'd much rather live where my parents do now than just about anywhere in or around Columbus (I live with them right now). I'm actually thinking about buying a house right down the street. But it's in Columbus Public Schools so the houses aren't worth nearly as much as they would be if they were in Dublin (abliet, some of the biggest house around there are 'small' out in Dublin). Per sq.ft. cost wise, that is true though.

[Mowgli1647545497]

BTW - obviously I agree with my previous post's statement on two caveats:

 

1- the regular school system meets a watermark of competency. That is: all kids are getting an adequate education. Any local levies are there to go above and beyond that and do not damage or penalize the other public districts.

 

2- The extra monies generated by local levies stay local. Thats the fight our neighborhood is engaged in. We agreed to pay more because we can/want to give more for our kids (as I'm sure any parent does if they can), and we want to see that extra money work for the kids it was targeted at: ours.

 

You'll notice I left private schools out of the question altogether. But they are the final solution (one I don't necessarily agree with, since they are a solution only for affluent neighborhoods and a deathknell for impoverished ones). BUT if people cannot find what they need thru public schools they can and will go private, and that hurts the public system infinitely more (trickledown, resource sharing, leveraged purchasing, all that goes away for the public schools if everyone with the means to do so sends their kids to private schools).

 

 

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Nitrous - it helps everyone to educate every child. I don't want to hire dumbasses in the future. And I don't want to have to pay colleges to teach kids what is essentially highschool education and remediation.

[Tractor]

I agree that parents of children should pay for there childrens education. If they did I'm sure they'd not only pay more attention to what was going on with it, but they would also help out. For those people that just can't afford it they are probably not trying hard enough IMO. The people could get help under these conditions.

 

1) Parents are unable to work or no parents exsist

2) Parents unable to work would have to take drug tests on some schedule

3) Children would have to show a certain level of interest in learning.

 

If any of these are not met then I have only one thing to say. They will have to learn to work harder until they learn to work smarter.

 

Look at the Mexicans comming into this country right now. Do you think they are comming here and going to college and getting administration and high tech jobs in this country. Hell no they are working there asses off to better there life and the lives of there children. Of course maybe for all there efforts there children still won't be able to go to college, but guess what! There children will learn our language really well. They will learn our culture really well. They will probably learn enough skills to get a better job then there father did and eventually there family line may have a child grow up to run America. Its not all about me me me now now now. Its just hard work and seeing past your life.

 

My own example. I grew up somewhere where after highschool all you had to look forward to was starting out in a $6 to 7 dollar an hour job at best. With a 4 year degree you could exspect around $10. My father didn't go to college. He got did luck into a company that pays hard workers good. He's been a heavy equipment mechanic for over 30 years in the same job. None of his family or my moms family ever when to college. The closest thing is military service. I grew up got tired of $7.50 an hour and moved(read that changed my situation) and now make as much as my dad does now after just starting a new job. So you see people just need to see what they want out of life. Do they want to party? They can do that on $5 bucks an hour. Wanna better your families life then work hard.

 

Evan

[Total Sign]

Ok Stalin.

[Nitrousbird]

Originally posted by Hoosier Daddy:

Joe:] If you directly make the parents pay for their own kids' education, how many are going to say "fuck it" and have little Billy drop out? This isn't higher education, it's the communities duty to provide free and public schools for kids.

My point was forcing the parents to pay thru direct payroll deductions/direct property tax, or whatever. But making it to where pulling the kid out of school isn't an option.

 

It's all about people's consequences for their actions. If some broad wants to keep her legs spread and pop out 8 kids, then it should be the rest of us having to suffer through taxes because she can't figure out what birth control is.

[Mowgli1647545497]

Originally posted by Nitrousbird:

It's all about people's consequences for their actions. If some broad wants to keep her legs spread and pop out 8 kids, then it should be the rest of us having to suffer through taxes because she can't figure out what birth control is.

Thats an extreme example don't you think. But again, educating every child, regardless of circumstance, benefits us all. You see that dont you?

 

Ok some ways why: one I'm close to is the process of discovery and advancement. you never know where the next Pasture or Steven Hawking or Mother Teresa will come from. They won't come at all if they don't get a education. Its a numbers game - the more you educate the better your chance of finding a genius (and no geniuses don't "inevitably" get themselves into an education). So you don't want to take the chance of missing the guy who'll cure cancer or the lady who'll write the next Hamlet or the next Rembrandt.

 

From an economics point of view - it helps us all having more skilled labor. Ask any economist and they'll be able to better explain it than I will be able to. But its a universally accepted axiom, shared between communists and pure capitalists.

 

-------------------------------

 

As for Tractor:

 

You're arguement is fundamentally flawed.

 

Its result is that you're de facto punishing the child for the mistakes of the parent. The parent reaps no tangible immediate penalty for sending their kids down the river. But the next individual, the kid itself, suffers. I can't name the number of exceptional presidents, leaders, scientists, artists, writers and other people of note who've advance the whole of the American people who got started as children of really shitty parents, but its legion.

 

Your suggestion punishes the innocent and shortchanges us. In other words I don't know about you but *I* want as many bright smart educated people to choose from as possible to hire as I move up the economic structure as I get older. Who wants to preside over a mass of idiots with just a few educated elites to choose from? I want to be able to pick from 20 possible candidates vs 3 possible and 17 ditch diggers.

 

Anyone putting together a baseball team knows you get a better team by having more and many choices for recruiting.

[Nitrousbird]

Originally posted by Mowgli:

Thats an extreme example don't you think. But again, educating every child, regardless of circumstance, benefits us all. You see that dont you?

 

Ok some ways why: one I'm close to is the process of discovery and advancement. you never know where the next Pasture or Steven Hawking or Mother Teresa will come from. They won't come at all if they don't get a education. Its a numbers game - the more you educate the better your chance of finding a genius (and no geniuses don't "inevitably" get themselves into an education). So you don't want to take the chance of missing the guy who'll cure cancer or the lady who'll write the next Hamlet or the next Rembrandt.

 

From an economics point of view - it helps us all having more skilled labor. Ask any economist and they'll be able to better explain it than I will be able to. But its a universally accepted axiom, shared between communists and pure capitalists.

I totally agree that every child NEEDS an education....and it should be even more strictly enforced than it is now for them to get that education. But simply FORCE the parents to pay for that education, regardless if they want to or not, with no option of just pulling them out of school. It's the whole point of why should we have to pay for someone else's children?

 

I'll go a step further with home schooling.......it should only be done by someone who is a licensed educator.

[Mowgli1647545497]

So you're advocating a usage tax system for the schools.

 

Only the people who use em pay for them.

 

I'll argue why thats worse than just spreading it around to everyone thru an example:

 

Usage tax on roads. You tell the dmv how much mileage you have on your car, all your cars, and you pay appropriately. Europeans do that. Sounds good at first eh? Europeans pay 5 times what we pay total for car ownership annually, embedded in tolls prices, gas prices, registration and titling costs, and outright taxation.

 

Also it wouldn't work in America. There are vast stretches of land wherein only a few people live. A very low person/square-mile ratio. They rarely drive these roads. Want to drive across Nebraska on the way to California? Utah? Wyoming? Sorry, road's gone, underfunded. Take a plane. Wanna visit a farm in the country here in our own rural Ohio? Get a horse. Roads gone. Who's gonna pay for those roads? It benefits us all to have a very well maintained, extensive, and thorough road system, even if we all don't drive every single road there is every single day. Its been key to our economic and cultural dominance and growth over the past century.

 

Exact same for education. Logistically that kind of funding system ends up giving us a spotty and inconsistent school system.

 

And since I think we're on the same goal of getting every child educated, it makes sense to do it the best, most efficient way, overall, possible. It benefits us all to help pay for every child to get an education.

[desperado]

OK, I will get the asshole stuff out of the way first.

RANE- If you are serious about going to middle school with a group of guys and being buddies, then being divided up to the different highschools and SHOOTING eachother because you are NOW from different schools. I say someone needs to give your buddies a field to play in with ALOT of guns and big walls around it. Anyone that is fucking stupid and violent enough to act in that manner should die in that manner.

NO ONE needs shit like that going on, and if your wanting to kill someone because they go to a different school is wrong, when that person was your friend the year before the the only thing that changed is the school he goes to. That's galacticlly fucking stupid.

 

 

Ok, rant over.

Levies and Schools.

Johnstown is suffering, especially the school system due to rapid unchecked growth. We are looking at 500 new homes in the next 5 years, and those are the ones in developments. That number doesn't include the number of private land owners will build. Needless to say they attempt to levy the hell out of us.

I am for schools, I feel that education is the MOST important thing there is.

That being said, I refuse to vote for the Levies in Johnstown, reason being is that they already have the money coming to them if they would force the Licking County Dept of Taxiation to do their jobs. They are standing up homes on farm land that was last apprased at 2000 to 5000 an acre. So the taxes are collected on that 2 to 5 grand.

NOTHING is done, even after the house sells for an extended period. Mine took 3 years, I was paying taxes on $18000 which was the purchase price paid by the previous owner, 20 yrs ago and it wasn't a house when he bought it. He built a house, the taxes were NEVER reaccested. He sold me the house, for 4 times that amount, it took the tax people 3 years to raise my taxes, and I am now paying on $36000 the house is worth at the very least double that. The last 4 houses that sold on my street all were over $100000.

The schools don't say shit, they hold the parents hostage. First thing to get cut at a school is transportation, but busses are less than 2% of a typical schools yearly total expence. So why do it? Because it inconviences the parents the most of anything. Afterschool programs, most of these are funded by the state independently of the school, but the school is housing them. They get stopped. Why? Take away the low cost after school babysitter, pisses off the parents more.

 

We just saw this in Grove City, they went to split sessions. They said it was due to overcrowding, and the school IS crowded. That I don't question. They said if the levy passed, in the middle of the year, that the split sessions would stop. Levy passed, split sessions stopped.

Now, not a single new classroom was built, there were no temporary classrooms brought in. And no students left. But they were able to end the split sessions. Why, because they weren't that bad off to begin with, and it was done for the single purpose of pissing parents off so they would vote for their levy and stop the bullshit split sessions.

 

Do schools need money, YES!!!!!

Do we as parents need to fund our schools HELL YES!!!!!

But the schools, and the local goverments need to help the this along. And *** schools should not have the right or ability to hold parents hostage to get their way.

Parents with 2 kids, one on the buss at 6 AM the second at 9 AM Off the buss at noon and 3 PM or 4 PM. Some are worse, I am heard of second session running to 6 PM. How do you work, and provide when you are spread out like that taking care of getting kids on and off busses. If there are busses to get them off of.

[Guest powers]

Originally posted by desperado:

OK, I will get the asshole stuff out of the way first.

RANE- If you are serious about going to middle school with a group of guys and being buddies, then being divided up to the different highschools and SHOOTING eachother because you are NOW from different schools. I say someone needs to give your buddies a field to play in with ALOT of guns and big walls around it. Anyone that is fucking stupid and violent enough to act in that manner should die in that manner.

NO ONE needs shit like that going on, and if your wanting to kill someone because they go to a different school is wrong, when that person was your friend the year before the the only thing that changed is the school he goes to. That's galacticlly fucking stupid.

 

 

Ok, rant over.

Levies and Schools.

Johnstown is suffering, especially the school system due to rapid unchecked growth. We are looking at 500 new homes in the next 5 years, and those are the ones in developments. That number doesn't include the number of private land owners will build. Needless to say they attempt to levy the hell out of us.

I am for schools, I feel that education is the MOST important thing there is.

That being said, I refuse to vote for the Levies in Johnstown, reason being is that they already have the money coming to them if they would force the Licking County Dept of Taxiation to do their jobs. They are standing up homes on farm land that was last apprased at 2000 to 5000 an acre. So the taxes are collected on that 2 to 5 grand.

NOTHING is done, even after the house sells for an extended period. Mine took 3 years, I was paying taxes on $18000 which was the purchase price paid by the previous owner, 20 yrs ago and it wasn't a house when he bought it. He built a house, the taxes were NEVER reaccested. He sold me the house, for 4 times that amount, it took the tax people 3 years to raise my taxes, and I am now paying on $36000 the house is worth at the very least double that. The last 4 houses that sold on my street all were over $100000.

The schools don't say shit, they hold the parents hostage. First thing to get cut at a school is transportation, but busses are less than 2% of a typical schools yearly total expence. So why do it? Because it inconviences the parents the most of anything. Afterschool programs, most of these are funded by the state independently of the school, but the school is housing them. They get stopped. Why? Take away the low cost after school babysitter, pisses off the parents more.

 

We just saw this in Grove City, they went to split sessions. They said it was due to overcrowding, and the school IS crowded. That I don't question. They said if the levy passed, in the middle of the year, that the split sessions would stop. Levy passed, split sessions stopped.

Now, not a single new classroom was built, there were no temporary classrooms brought in. And no students left. But they were able to end the split sessions. Why, because they weren't that bad off to begin with, and it was done for the single purpose of pissing parents off so they would vote for their levy and stop the bullshit split sessions.

 

Do schools need money, YES!!!!!

Do we as parents need to fund our schools HELL YES!!!!!

But the schools, and the local goverments need to help the this along. And *** schools should not have the right or ability to hold parents hostage to get their way.

Parents with 2 kids, one on the buss at 6 AM the second at 9 AM Off the buss at noon and 3 PM or 4 PM. Some are worse, I am heard of second session running to 6 PM. How do you work, and provide when you are spread out like that taking care of getting kids on and off busses. If there are busses to get them off of.

Ok let me get the asshole stuff out of the way first. You have money to build a 6 second car/truck and you live an a 70k dollar house graemlins/lol.gif

 

Ok now I think this is amazing. I agree with one of the points you were trying to make. Counties need to change the law on assessments. They need to pro rate the taxes from the date that occupancy is granted. And leave it the tax payers responsibilty to make sure they have the money to pay once the aduitor gets the tax bill out to them. Alot of people build homes and live there for a year or two and build again to avoid property taxes.

[Tractor]

Where I come from the first thing a school threatens to cut from the budget is the sports programs. No kidding. Warren schools have made only one threat each time they need money and they say if they don't get the levy passed they will cut the football, baseball, and basketball programs. Why in the hell would you threaten to cut something that generates money?

 

I was home schooled, but I was a bit different than most. My mother realised that I wasn't going to do any type of school assignments no matter what anyone tried to do so they let me do what ever I wanted to do. It ended up being computer programming, physics, astronomy, cars, mathematics, world history, world phylosophies. I'm sure you can tell I didn't spend much time with spelling or gramar, but oh well.

 

Who ever said the kids are getting an education now? I see all this talk about how dumb kids are these days. School is just a government run babysitter. It needs revamped badly. Maybe the school system could be there to identify and help a child in there interests instead of teaching according to a system that is designed mostly to pass children to the next level.

 

Evan

[desperado]

Big Papa, first off, NEVER did I say that I personally was building a 6 sec anything. I said it could be done, not that I had done it, or had the funding to do it. In fact, I said that I would do it for anyone that had the funds.

 

Enough on that bullshit.

 

With the specific problems that we are having here, the explosion in new builds, especially farm land being turned into housing developments. The developers tend to see NO tax burden on these developments yet they are the ones benefitting from them. The farmers are paying some of it in capital gains, but unless you specifically have an income tax, then the schools see none of the tax money from the sale of the properity. You can also believe that these hundreds of acres that are being sold are NOT being sold at 3 to 5 grand an acre. Infact an acre of land here is 15 to 20 grand, or more. So it's sold for WAY more than it's assessed value, but the developers may not end up paying ANY properity tax on it. But they are the ones subdividing it, throwing up spec homes on it and selling them at 120 to 150.

A change in this, especially in this area, would slow these developers. THis would give the schools not only more money, but a small slowing in the increase of new students. This woud be due to the fact that the developers wouldn't be buying up the farm land as fast.

 

Delaware was so bad for awhile that they actually stopped issuing permits for new builds for awhile. I am not sure if that has been lifted as this point or not.

[ttemper]

hahahahahahaha omg. Im guessing its b/c sam got banned?