Cougar1647545494 Posted October 27, 2007 Report Share Posted October 27, 2007 If you like V8's good for you. You want a cookie? i have nothing against 4s, but come on, this is common cents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPLN SUX Posted October 27, 2007 Report Share Posted October 27, 2007 lol yeah blowing the tires off of a 205 fwd..wow...dont hold back now you missed the point, the laws of pyhsics apply - you have to rev a 4 to get the turbo spooled to make comparabe numbers to a v8 - the same goes as a 6 to a 12, etc... what the hell does it matter if it has twice the cams? I can run an 18 degree busch nascar head or 4.6 dohc head. both flow shitloads of air. 8>4 period. If you don't see that, well, shit, you drive a volvo nevermind. First, i wasnt running 205's, i was on 245's borrwed over from a Montecarlo. Second, i was only spraying my way to about 300hp, but somewhere in the neighborhood of 330lb-ft. Roasting tires in 3rd gear 3500rpm from a shift point, was not something i had expected from that. Is it just some coincidece that all my 4cyl motors have made a fair amount more torque than horspower? No. Theres a recipe, and just becasue you dont know it, doesnt mean its not there. Third, you are still ignorant to the fact that YOU DONT HAVE TO REV HIGH TO SPOOL. You dont NEED a massive turbo to make 500hp. A T3/T4 62-1 can do that, and you dont have to rev out for that to make 60in of boost. Besides, a small shot does just fine to spool if you really need it, but built properly you dont need it. Youre forgetting that all these drag cars are built on the top end because they want to run quick with trap speed, not bottom end grunt. Youre also forgetting that most of these engines make way more horsepower than torque. The big 4cyl engines dont have to. They can make square figures just like a small block can, but its all in the setup. Im sorry thats too complicated for you to grasp, but its just the way it is. Besides, my Volvo > your piece of shit cougar any day of the week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPLN SUX Posted October 27, 2007 Report Share Posted October 27, 2007 hey genious its called rod speed/piston speed. omg... F = M x V... figure it out. lets see... 4 rods = 2240g 4 pistons = 1380g total = A FUCK LOAD LESS THAN A V8! When you have less weight, you can spin it faster. 150k fps for a V8 is a good place to stop for a constant load. On a 4 banger, 162k fps. with forged, and factory balance. The lighter you go, the faster you can go before the equivilant load is reached, i.e. the breaking point. Anything else youd like me to teach you young grasshopper? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPLN SUX Posted October 27, 2007 Report Share Posted October 27, 2007 i have nothing against 4s, but come on, this is common cents. actully its not, and thats why you fail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TEXASS Posted October 27, 2007 Report Share Posted October 27, 2007 I think Matt (tinman) said he could sppin that high if he wanted but if i remember right he shifts at like 8500... its been a while so theres a good chance thats incorrect. read http://www.teamjegs.com/thecars/prostock.asp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPLN SUX Posted October 27, 2007 Report Share Posted October 27, 2007 read http://www.teamjegs.com/thecars/prostock.asp you see now i thought he said they were Nascar heads.... i dont remember, it was a couple years ago. i do know he siad he could spin to a rediculous rpm, but i dont remember exactly how high. you could be right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TEXASS Posted October 27, 2007 Report Share Posted October 27, 2007 nascar motors today i have seen spin up to 9800rpm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar1647545494 Posted October 27, 2007 Report Share Posted October 27, 2007 First, i wasnt running 205's, i was on 245's borrwed over from a Montecarlo. Second, i was only spraying my way to about 300hp, but somewhere in the neighborhood of 330lb-ft. Roasting tires in 3rd gear 3500rpm from a shift point, was not something i had expected from that. Is it just some coincidece that all my 4cyl motors have made a fair amount more torque than horspower? No. Theres a recipe, and just becasue you dont know it, doesnt mean its not there. Third, you are still ignorant to the fact that YOU DONT HAVE TO REV HIGH TO SPOOL. You dont NEED a massive turbo to make 500hp. A T3/T4 62-1 can do that, and you dont have to rev out for that to make 60in of boost. Besides, a small shot does just fine to spool if you really need it, but built properly you dont need it. Youre forgetting that all these drag cars are built on the top end because they want to run quick with trap speed, not bottom end grunt. Youre also forgetting that most of these engines make way more horsepower than torque. The big 4cyl engines dont have to. They can make square figures just like a small block can, but its all in the setup. Im sorry thats too complicated for you to grasp, but its just the way it is. Besides, my Volvo > your piece of shit cougar any day of the week. show me spool times of a 62-1 on a 2L....please find a graph of your z24 with rpm and boost noted...i like to laugh as you prove me right so your saying that if you defy the laws of physics and have a huge powerband with a 4cyl turbo that makes comparable power to an 8...you have built properly? uhh..k yeahh uhh, theres this thing called mass flow in an engine, you tune around if your na. sorry bud if your working with na 4s taht dont suck in air, you only have doodads like variable runners and cam timing that make the best of any resonance tuning your going to get... you have failed to see my point entirely and now your adding cavets into your arguments about nitrous and square figures bow your head and drive back to pizza hut and make me some dinner lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPLN SUX Posted October 27, 2007 Report Share Posted October 27, 2007 show me spool times of a 62-1 on a 2L....please find a graph of your z24 with rpm and boost noted...i like to laugh as you prove me right so your saying that if you defy the laws of physics and have a huge powerband with a 4cyl turbo that makes comparable power to an 8...you have built properly? uhh..k yeahh uhh, theres this thing called mass flow in an engine, you tune around if your na. sorry bud if your working with na 4s taht dont suck in air, you only have doodads like variable runners and cam timing that make the best of any resonance tuning your going to get... you have failed to see my point entirely and now your adding cavets into your arguments about nitrous and square figures bow your head and drive back to pizza hut and make me some dinner lol Waoh hold the phone... first of all, the Z24 was going to be a 2.6, bigger than any other 4 banger in a car out there. Secondly, youre going to hit a brick wall at some point and the motor just wont make any more power without exploding, simply not enough cubes. The reason they CAN do what i say they can, is becasue of physics, and is also why they CANT make as much power at the end of the day. But are you really going to throw a 4 banger into a 3500lb sled? Fuck no, youll put it in the smallest thing you can find. Probably something around 2000lbs. In which case a modest 400bhp/400trq will make you quicker from 50-150 than almost any OEM car without too much trouble. If you got froggy and built one in the 500-600hp/ 500+ lbft range, youre going to need Tilleys car to run it down... and thats a toss up. The trick to a 4cyl is to exploit its advantages rather than try to make its disadvantages not so bad. Bottom line, the bigger the motor, the more you can get for a longer period of time, in the world of 4 bangers, the desired effect is not IMPOSSIBLE... very rare and far between, but it can happen with the right touch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ihuntv8 Posted October 27, 2007 Report Share Posted October 27, 2007 WOW! That was some funny reading. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar1647545494 Posted October 27, 2007 Report Share Posted October 27, 2007 they CANT make as much power at the end of the day.. finally, lol i dont know why you typed the rest, i didnt say anything about cars... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ihuntv8 Posted October 27, 2007 Report Share Posted October 27, 2007 Waoh hold the phone... first of all, the Z24 was going to be a 2.6, bigger than any other 4 banger in a car out there. Secondly, youre going to hit a brick wall at some point and the motor just wont make any more power without exploding, simply not enough cubes. The reason they CAN do what i say they can, is becasue of physics, and is also why they CANT make as much power at the end of the day. But are you really going to throw a 4 banger into a 3500lb sled? Fuck no, youll put it in the smallest thing you can find. Probably something around 2000lbs. In which case a modest 400bhp/400trq will make you quicker from 50-150 than almost any OEM car without too much trouble. If you got froggy and built one in the 500-600hp/ 500+ lbft range, youre going to need Tilleys car to run it down... and thats a toss up. The trick to a 4cyl is to exploit its advantages rather than try to make its disadvantages not so bad. Bottom line, the bigger the motor, the more you can get for a longer period of time, in the world of 4 bangers, the desired effect is not IMPOSSIBLE... very rare and far between, but it can happen with the right touch. Wow! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar1647545494 Posted October 27, 2007 Report Share Posted October 27, 2007 WOW! That was some funny reading. you wouldn't need that much psi to make the same power for the same range Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar1647545494 Posted October 27, 2007 Report Share Posted October 27, 2007 Wow! Wow! lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ihuntv8 Posted October 27, 2007 Report Share Posted October 27, 2007 you wouldn't need that much psi to make the same power for the same range You cant run that much psi in a v8. You would have to buy a shovel and a mop to pick up all the pieces. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar1647545494 Posted October 27, 2007 Report Share Posted October 27, 2007 You cant run that much psi in a v8. You would have to buy a shovel and a mop to pick up all the pieces. why do u say that? its actually easier to do it with more cubes, BMEP! what it comes down 2, in stock from, the lsx is about 13bar na, while the evo is somewhere like 20-30bar? it shows that the 4 is getting shitloads of power and is efficienct as all else, but if done right, 40-50psi on a 347 is like 1050some odd cubes when talking mass flow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar1647545494 Posted October 27, 2007 Report Share Posted October 27, 2007 why do u say that? its actually easier to do it with more cubes, BMEP! what it comes down 2, in stock from, the lsx is about 13bar na, while the evo is somewhere like 20-30bar? it shows that the 4 is getting shitloads of power and is efficienct as all else, but if done right, 40-50psi on a 347 is like 1050some odd cubes when talking mass flow also thats 1500-1750hp in general terms Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar1647545494 Posted October 27, 2007 Report Share Posted October 27, 2007 You cant run that much psi in a v8. You would have to buy a shovel and a mop to pick up all the pieces. i guess if ur a numbers guy, what does it take to run 6,7 second quarter miles? pro-stock around what 40psi would give an 8 at the tires.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ihuntv8 Posted October 27, 2007 Report Share Posted October 27, 2007 why do u say that? its actually easier to do it with more cubes, BMEP! what it comes down 2, in stock from, the lsx is about 13bar na, while the evo is somewhere like 20-30bar? it shows that the 4 is getting shitloads of power and is efficienct as all else, but if done right, 40-50psi on a 347 is like 1050some odd cubes when talking mass flow How many do you see driving around town? Now wouldnt you think if it was that easy and able to be done, there would be a couple rolling around. One thing is for sure i will keep this thread in mind, I will be the first to let you know how much boost a v8 can actually take. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ihuntv8 Posted October 27, 2007 Report Share Posted October 27, 2007 The funny part about this whole thread, i am talking about a 2.0 liter stock mitsubishi block, crank and head. You 2 guys start comparing that to nascar motors and pro stock numbers....lol I guess thats a compliment...Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ihuntv8 Posted October 27, 2007 Report Share Posted October 27, 2007 a) you cant replace displacement b)you'll have to spend alot of money on valve train and sealing to make most 4s rev and seal to see comparable numbers c)have fun running c16/meth/alcohol d)stress LOL! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty2Hotty Posted October 27, 2007 Report Share Posted October 27, 2007 The issue here is that I already have a trans am that gets about 9 miles to the gallon, and my truck gets about 14 miles to the gallon. It would be nice not to have to go to a gas station every week! I will be stuck with this damn truck for a while, but I figured I would pic your guys brains. Gimme a call, I can get some better MPG out of your truck. You know where I be and I won't break your wallet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koolrayz Posted October 27, 2007 Report Share Posted October 27, 2007 lsx guys have been beating there heads against the wall for years trying to get past 30psi pushing water (every pass) with o-ringed heads. while im sure the new 6 bolt heads will help out greatly they have not yet made an impact. Now im not a FI guy I Steered away about 3 years ago when I almost bought a twin kit. When I went to the larger CI engine it was nip and tuck between staying stock cubed and putting a 76 on it. I stayed with the big cube/nitrous idea because I cant get by the love i have of the exhaust note cars like Sam and I have. The nitrous cars are finally right behind the FI guys in the LSX world, the fastest nitrous car is about 4 tenths behind Turley. I have been kicking around the idea of a small hairdryer dual power adder system while I have the engine out this winter. Have to see what the money looks like. I do have 2 other nitrous kits i want to have ready for testing next year. so ill probably stay where im at. All the talk about being able to run more boost in a 4 cylinder than an eight makes me wonder how the high boost 8 cylinder diesels do it? It appears to me the gas engines are an inferior design compared to the 8 cylinder diesels or the 4g63 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar1647545494 Posted October 27, 2007 Report Share Posted October 27, 2007 How many do you see driving around town? Now wouldnt you think if it was that easy and able to be done, there would be a couple rolling around. One thing is for sure i will keep this thread in mind, I will be the first to let you know how much boost a v8 can actually take. is there a tire that can take that kind of power? pro stock, alcohol, meth v8s have beat ya to it... no disrespect though, seeing as ur a guy with some fast shit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar1647545494 Posted October 27, 2007 Report Share Posted October 27, 2007 The funny part about this whole thread, i am talking about a 2.0 liter stock mitsubishi block, crank and head. You 2 guys start comparing that to nascar motors and pro stock numbers....lol I guess thats a compliment...Thank you. thats just quality of the engineering. gm stuff at nascar level is still a factory part, just from gm performance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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