Gun control

[El Karacho1647545492]

We really haven't heard this discussion much, I suspect because most of you believe in the 2nd amendment. I do too, I believe it's every American's right to have a gun because we live in a dangerous world with unforseeable crimes. I've seen plenty of things in the news where it would not be unreasonable to say "xxx could have been stopped if someone there had a concealed weapon and could have defended him/herself". Don't states with CCW see a decrease in violent crimes? I'm not sure, but I bet someone here can chime in.

 

All that said, every time I see this it really pisses me off.

http://www.wjactv.com/news/14568476/detail.html

What's the solution? Ideally we'd live in a world where we didn't need guns and could just say "toss them all out, save the kids" but we can't simply do that. We also can't just say "well people need to be educated better" because if I'm not mistaken, there are a lot of gun proponents that would like to see restrictions, registration, and background checks disappear. I'll admit it, I've been tempted to buy black market because there's times I haven't felt safe in my apt here in Boston and I'm not 21 (we found some sketchy drug dealers in our basement at one party, later found out they stole several thousand dollars worth of electronics from our housemates...but what if they were strapped?).

 

Still, all things considered I think we need to meet somewhere in the middle. You can't force people to be safe, there will always be a select few who choose to put their family at risk by not safeguarding themselves with gun safes or locks, or by keeping loaded guns in a place where their kids play. You can, however, force people to be educated, you can track guns and who owns them, you can force people to obtain licenses and go through an approved standard procedure, you can step up the ever-feared government involvement without infringing on peoples rights (I'm saying it CAN be done, not that if it were that it'd be done reasonably...utopian concept).

 

I guess what I'm saying is that if people have to go through hours and hours of classes and take tests and wait many years til they can drive a car, which essentially is a 2 ton weapon if not properly handled, the same should be extended to handheld weapons.

 

Cliffs:

-I approve of right to arm bears

-9 year old kills his friend because his parents are fucking idiots

-things must be done, won't someone think of the children!?!

-how do we do things without pissing off the people who hate gov't involvement

-I'm a hippie douche who's in favor of gun control REFORM, am i rite?

[KillJoy]

Many (and some here) feel that anytime a firearm is purchased, through the system, your name is put onto a list. This list says what you bought and when.

 

Some of these folks then say, "well...if it gets to the point when guns are outlawed, they will know what I have and come and take it".

 

I would rather ^^^THIS^^^ be the case as opposed to every dumbass in the world who wants to buy a gun to be able to do so.

 

 

KillJoy

[Science Abuse]

Long waits and regular scheduled psycological evaluations. Establish that, and I support the sale of any fire arm you can come up with. I could use an anti-aircraft gun to save time on chopping firewood.

 

Funny/true story: I breifly dated a cadet. Red head and crazy..but I'm just an ex, we all think our ex's are crazy....right? Turns out, I have support. After completing what needed completed (and ditchin me, stayed friends), she went on to becoem a cop...or rather, she tried. Turns out, they have an evaluation that determines if you're fit to carry a weapon, and she failed. Turns out, I'm not the only one who thinks she's crazy.

 

Now, we know that professionals denied her the ability to carry on the job. Yet, she can easily go out and buy a gun AND attain CCW a permit. This does not sit well with me.

 

Make it like a drivers license. Every year, you spend half an hour proving you're not crazy. if you file for divorce, or enter into any sort of legal process, you must submit to an evaluation to retain your liscense. You may be stable now, but when your wife divorces you and takes half your stuff, that bitch has gotta die.

[Lustalbert]

Gun control means using both hands. Use a sling for support on the really long distance shots.

 

It is already illegal for a felon to purchase/own/posess a firearm, yet they seem to keep getting ahold of them. Ban firearms? No, wouldnt help, criminals are already criminals, didnt give a shit about the law the first time around, doubt they will the second or third time either.

I kind of like the wild west theory. Everyone was armed, and everyone knew it. Only needed one law enforcement officer per town, most issues wuold take care of themselves. Of course dumb people usually got weeded out of the populus prety quickly as well.

 

In all seriousness though, the whole gun law system needs a mojor overhaul. There are so many dumbass laws on the books passed by politicians that just wanted a bill they could claim made the streets safer, but acomlished nothing but adding more confusion to the system. Dum the whole range of laws, and start with writing some common sense laws.

Violent Felon = no weapons PERIOD. i dont know if you should even be allowed to buy any color of cloting other than bright orange.

Background checks = good. just a good quick check of criminal history and mental issues.

Class III/SOT items: Be nice to see the 1986 manufacture ban lifted, but keep the in depth background checks in place. Registration of these weapons is not such a bad idea, so keep the curent system in place, just lift the ban.

 

As far as the issue of kids occosionally offing one another, every hangun is already required to be sold with a trigger lock, just a function of parents to busy doing things beside supervising thier children, and not taking the precautions that are already available. They made the mistake, and now need to live with the consequence of losing a child. If they go on to say that guns should be restricted further, or the manufaturer of the firearm needs sued, then the parent should be sterilized for being a moron.

[El Karacho1647545492]

^^ You make a reasonable point, but you can't just say "well they get what they deserve for not monitoring their kids more carefully when there's a gun in the house" and write it off. It'd be one thing if the kid shot himself, but when another family is involved then who is deserving of what? Mom and dad of the kid that dies should call over and ask the parents "hey, do you have any guns, where are they, are you properly trained to use them, can your kids access them, are they locked, are they legal?" Thats not reasonable in any way.

 

Think about this. Guns will never ever be outlawed in America. I remember seeing a thread firearms being seized in New Orleans, but really how many people do you think suffered as a result of not having their guns for a period of time? I agree that its bullshit that the gov't took them away, however.

 

To the gun owners, I would pose this question: would you really be that resentful if you had to take a class, obtain and renew licenses, and keep a gun registered if there was a SLIGHT chance that it would save some kid from an accident?

 

In response to killjoy, I think you're right; if the NSA/Homeland Security/FBI has a file and "flyer rating" to counteract terrorism in the air for everyone that's been on a plane since 2001, I think its pretty fucking possible that they know who has guns.

[twistedfocus1647545489]

I could go on for days about my feelings on this topic, but the cliff's notes are as follows:

 

-my main issue with people being pro gun control is that I think they're missing the issue. To me it's only a tool. Yeah, maybe it makes it a hell of a lot easier to kill someone, but the point is that people have been finding ways to kill each other for thousands of years. Take away guns and then you'll have to take away knives... then spoons... etc. Where does it end? I often hear the term "gun-violence" and it makes me shake my head. I just wan to go "Oh no, gun violence. Everybody run because you know how guns are always killing people. If people couldn't get guns they'd never find a way to kill each other". Point being that we spent many years killing each other without them - they aren't the cause of anything, just the next evolution of people making weapons. It's what we do.

 

-Let's say we pass a law tomorrow that no one except police/military personell can posess firearms. I gaurantee it will have very little impact on crimes committed involving firearms. Just about anyone who's willing to break the law to commit robberies or any other sort of crime isn't going to have a problem breaking one more law by taking a gun along. The only people losing guns in this scenario is the people that purchased them legally. Granted there are some times, like someone had mentioned previously, where people just snap and do something like shoot their spouse... but they might have been stabbed, run over with a car, etc. instead.

 

-It's generally a good idea to seek some sort of training, at least informal training when you're new to firearms. I think that even alot of people that are "scared" of guns would benefit from becoming familiarized with them. I think most people that are scared of guns were just raised that way, it's just ignorance (meaning they just know they aren't supposed to like them or that they are "dangerous"). Also, as far as training goes I wouldn't have a problem with having to show some sort of competency to be able to buy guns, much like you have to do (at least once) to obtain a driver's license.

 

- (somewhat related to the previous point) Children accidentally shooting each other. This always turns into "movies and games are to blame"... but it all boils down to proper safety. If you can't keep the guns locked up and away from the kids, as well as teaching them proper safety and handling when they are old enough then you shouldn't have them in your home. It's like buying a dog and just turning him loose to fend for himself - there's a certain responsibility that comes with ownership.

 

-I think the CCW law in Ohio is sufficient. Sure it's not perfect, but at least people have to undergo a background check, some basic training (although I know some people take shortcuts here) and you even have to recertify every few (8?) years which is more than we can say for driver's licenses.

[copperhead]

Education > *

 

That, and rather than making new laws that only affect people that actually give a shit, work on enforcing what's already there.

 

Third, hold people responsible. This goes along with number two, but also means that you are responsible for what happens with your gun. If you have kids running around the house and keep a loaded gun sitting out, it is your fault for it being accessable, and it's also your fault for not teaching the kid to leave it be. At 9 years old, a child has been taught and can comprehend was is dangerous and what is not. Also by that age, a child could have gone target shooting with dad, and know that the guns are only to be touched when dad hands it to them. If you don't teach your kids any kind of safety, they find a gun and start playing with it, and end up killing little billy from down the street, guess what? The parent is responsible. Their actions (or lack of actions) caused that to happen just as much as little johnny pulling the trigger.

 

Personally, I keep loaded guns in the house. I've lived there since february, and not once has their been a kid in my house. There's no way for my dog to either get to them, or manage to chamber a round and pull the trigger, so I think I'm pretty safe from them randomly going off and killing granny next door.

[Drewhop]

I think the greatest form of gun control would be a proper education to everyone on use and care of them. With a demonstration of sort to show someone what a gun is capable of use in the wrong way.

 

This wont work for everyone. Growing up in a house where i learned at a very young age to respect firearms. How to hunt how to care for. Gave me a education and a respect for a gun.

 

Hell this might not even have anything to do with gun control but its my two cents.

[Lustalbert]

^^ You make a reasonable point, but you can't just say "well they get what they deserve for not monitoring their kids more carefully when there's a gun in the house" and write it off. It'd be one thing if the kid shot himself, but when another family is involved then who is deserving of what? Mom and dad of the kid that dies should call over and ask the parents "hey, do you have any guns, where are they, are you properly trained to use them, can your kids access them, are they locked, are they legal?" Thats not reasonable in any way.

 

I belive part of this is parental responsibility, and knowing where your kids are. If I dont know the parents in the household where my child is going to be going to go play, they arent going to go over there untill I know about them, at least having spoken to them about such a thing as "Do you have firearms, and do you have them locked in a safe, or trigger lock on them?" and "Do you have a pool, is it gated, are you going to be around, are you a child molester, ect"

I know parents can't be everywhere, and always keep an eye on the kids all the time, but at least a little bit of parenteal inqury could probably prevent something like that.

[El Karacho1647545492]

I could go on for days about my feelings on this topic, but the cliff's notes are as follows:

 

-my main issue with people being pro gun control is that I think they're missing the issue. To me it's only a tool. Yeah, maybe it makes it a hell of a lot easier to kill someone, but the point is that people have been finding ways to kill each other for thousands of years. Take away guns and then you'll have to take away knives... then spoons... etc. Where does it end? I often hear the term "gun-violence" and it makes me shake my head. I just wan to go "Oh no, gun violence. Everybody run because you know how guns are always killing people. If people couldn't get guns they'd never find a way to kill each other". Point being that we spent many years killing each other without them - they aren't the cause of anything, just the next evolution of people making weapons. It's what we do.

 

-Let's say we pass a law tomorrow that no one except police/military personell can posess firearms. I gaurantee it will have very little impact on crimes committed involving firearms. Just about anyone who's willing to break the law to commit robberies or any other sort of crime isn't going to have a problem breaking one more law by taking a gun along. The only people losing guns in this scenario is the people that purchased them legally. Granted there are some times, like someone had mentioned previously, where people just snap and do something like shoot their spouse... but they might have been stabbed, run over with a car, etc. instead.

 

-It's generally a good idea to seek some sort of training, at least informal training when you're new to firearms. I think that even alot of people that are "scared" of guns would benefit from becoming familiarized with them. I think most people that are scared of guns were just raised that way, it's just ignorance (meaning they just know they aren't supposed to like them or that they are "dangerous"). Also, as far as training goes I wouldn't have a problem with having to show some sort of competency to be able to buy guns, much like you have to do (at least once) to obtain a driver's license.

 

- (somewhat related to the previous point) Children accidentally shooting each other. This always turns into "movies and games are to blame"... but it all boils down to proper safety. If you can't keep the guns locked up and away from the kids, as well as teaching them proper safety and handling when they are old enough then you shouldn't have them in your home. It's like buying a dog and just turning him loose to fend for himself - there's a certain responsibility that comes with ownership.

 

-I think the CCW law in Ohio is sufficient. Sure it's not perfect, but at least people have to undergo a background check, some basic training (although I know some people take shortcuts here) and you even have to recertify every few (8?) years which is more than we can say for driver's licenses.

 

Those are cliffs!?!?!

 

I think you've got a lot of good points, the one thing I take issue with is saying taking away guns would lead to taking away knives, etc. A gun is a weapon and a weapon only. It is meant only to hurt, never to heal. It serves no other purpose than to intimidate and kill. A knife can be used to cut cheese, etc.

 

The first time I went shooting was with my uncle who worked in corrections for 35 years, 10 of them as a warden. Got to shoot a .44 Colt Army Special single action, a Colt .357, a Ruger .22 target pistol, and a Walther PPK. Obviously the Walther was for pure James Bond thrill, but shooting in general for the first time gave me this feeling of power that was, to put it mildly, intoxicating. The knowledge that with this tool (a really good way of putting it, I might add) I was invincible compared to someone without it was really cool, but realizing and understanding that is the most important thing in being responsible with it. When someone feels that power and can't moderate it or can't be responsible with it, you end up with a psychotic killer; someone who gets addicted to it is a serial killer. How are you going to tell who will and won't be able to moderate it when a gun is sold legally? That's my biggest problem with gun control, is that no one can tell who will use it responsibly and who won't.

[twistedfocus1647545489]

A gun is a weapon and a weapon only. It is meant only to hurt, never to heal. It serves no other purpose than to intimidate and kill. A knife can be used to cut cheese, etc.

 

The flip side of that argument - I think you'll find that most hunters use guns to kill their prey the same as they use a knife to kill cheese.

 

What I mean by taking away knives and such is not that I think the government, or anyone for that matter, wants that... what I mean is that it's just the top of the weapon food chain. If there were no guns in existance tomorrow - it'd become something else.

 

Also, I have done alot of target shooting that has nothing to do with intent to be powerful over anything, it's just a fun sport to me and lots of people. It's probably the number one reason most people I know that own guns have them - sport. There are some people that just shouldn't have firearms, but those same people probably shouldn't have alot of things.

 

I assume the guns you're refering to are more along the lines of handguns, particualrly those intended to be "people killers" (hi-cap handguns, assult rifles maybe) moreso than a sporting weapon (.22 rifle for plinking, shotguns for birds and rabbits, etc). The problem is that alot of weapons fit in a grey area and who's to say that the 12 gauge pump loaded in my closet isn't also the gun I use to hunt (not that I have been hunting since I was a kid).

[thorne]

Many (and some here) feel that anytime a firearm is purchased, through the system, your name is put onto a list. This list says what you bought and when.

 

Some of these folks then say, "well...if it gets to the point when guns are outlawed, they will know what I have and come and take it".

 

I would rather ^^^THIS^^^ be the case as opposed to every dumbass in the world who wants to buy a gun to be able to do so.

 

 

KillJoy

 

Thank you for hating america. Guesse what CRIMINALS DONT BUY GUNS LEGIT.

 

 

I keep loaded guns.

[Tractor]

The 2nd amendment was not meant for hunting or entirely for protection from criminals, but was created to make sure the people were armed and the government could not force upon them taxes and laws which were unfair. Throughout history the first thing governments do when wanted to force upon the people unfair things is make sure they cannot fight back. Look at the old sword laws of england and the laws of the far east against weapons and the martial arts.

In the US we have already given up all our rights because we might as well be armed with water pistols compared to what our government could use against us. I don't care what kind of gun fanatic you are you and 100 others like you don't have the means to go up against the government for any length of time. All you'd get is maybe to make media headlines for a short while except that if it came down to things getting that bad I doubt the media would give an unbiased report of your story.

 

Evan

[El Karacho1647545492]

Regardless of what the intent of the Constitutional allowances regarding guns are, the fact remains that this is a violent world and we need some level of personal protection against forces that law cannot possibly act fast enough to stop. Consequences from a murder won't bring back an innocent victim, which is the line of reason I follow when justifying having guns.

 

As to twistedfocus's comments, I think definitely make a valid point. There will always be hunters and that's a whole different clusterfuck that politicians don't even deal with, because in the realm of gun control laws there are only two kinds of people; those that get guns to kill other people and those that get guns to protect themselves. Hunters are the forgotten majority. That said, I think gun laws should not be categorized. Handguns kill more people than anything else and are the hardest to control because illegal ones are easier to hide. A sawed off shotgun is something legal made illegal, which is something the government will never be able to control; you can't prevent people from having the tools to create that just like you can't prevent people from buying sudafed because some bad apples make methamphetamine with it. You've just got to have blanket legislation, because as soon as you start applying different laws to different "classes" everything gets harder to enforce.

[copperhead]

the one thing I take issue with is saying taking away guns would lead to taking away knives, etc.

 

England has already started banning big scary looking kitchen knives, since their gun ban has been going so well

 

Handguns kill more people than anything else and are the hardest to control because illegal ones are easier to hide.

 

Cars and doctors kill more people than all guns combined. Let's worry about fixing that before demonizing an inanimate object.

[Clifford Automotive]

To me it's only a tool.

 

And thats all it is. You dont see people locking up there hedge trimmers and chainsaws and rakes. A gun is a tool, it needs to be treated like a tool.

 

Education is a big factor in this. Its pretty simple. I have been around guns my whole life. Being educated on guns, its was no big deal when I saw one. Show some kid a gun today they want to touch it and play with it. The father in laws house is full of loaded guns. Everywhere you look there is a gun sitting or hanging somewhere. All the kids that go through that house there is never a problem or one gun out of place. Weather we are inside or outside. No one is worried that anything is going to happen. Reason being is because each generation is around guns, they are educated and taught to respect a gun.

 

I have multiple loaded guns in my house and there is never been a problem. The kids in this house know not to touch them. The dont play with my tools. Why because they can get cut on a tool or stabbed by it. Why dont you think they touch my guns? Because they know what can happen.

 

I know someone it going to respond and say well there are kids that dont listen and they WILL touch it or play with it someday. NO they wont, its the respect of the gun. They have seen what it can do, knowing all well what it can do to them or someone else if something were to go off. When there friends come over. Its not like they say hey look at this gun. Because its just like the potato chip on the floor. They see it all the time and dont do anything about it.

 

When we shoot out in Rockbridge, we tell a 12 year old to go get this or that gun (everyone knows its loaded) and he brings it out with no worries.

 

EDUCATION

[RedRocket1647545505]

As 360iroc said, Education. First and foremost. If I ever have kids, this will be my first line of defense.

 

However, education of all the worlds children isn't always feasible though, so I go a step further by knowing exactly where my guns are, how they are stored, and by knowing that no child can get access to them. Every once in a while, we'll have a small kid or two over at our house. They're not my kids, so I don't know what they've been taught. I know what they SHOULD have been taught though. Point being, on the slim chance that one of these kids gets the bright idea to go snooping around my house, there's absolutely no way for he/she to get to any of my guns.

 

I'm all for responsible gun ownership. If you aren't responsible enough to secure your guns from falling into the wrong hands, perhaps you shouldn't have any.

 

 

Final point, which has been said over and over and over; Taking guns away from responsible gun owners isn't the solution, AT ALL. It's just dumb fucking logic.

[Scotty2Hotty]

I was taught at a young age how to use, and be safe with weapons. After serving overseas a few times, a weapon is much more than a tool. I consider it a life saver and has bailed me out of more situations than I care to talk about. But educating stupid people is deffinately a start. Not to mention the use of locks on trigger housings/chambers is one of the best ways to keep a weapon safe. I don't keep one in the chamber on any of my firearms, for the simple fact it takes me but a second to throw one in the chamber. No matter what seems to happen criminals will get firearms, there's no real way around that. But CCW carriers can deffinately help lower the crime rate. I'd love to use Virginia Tech as a case, since the police dropped the ball on that one. If one teacher had a weapon on him/her, that kid would've never taken down that many students, plain and simple. But another case is, well the kid was able to pbtain firearms legally, and look what he did. It's like the alcohol debate too. You have the good and the bad.

[thorne]

When I went to high school there was a teacher who kept a gun at the school. Personally I feel that guns are like cars, They have a great purpose but improperly used you can kill somebody.

 

The argument that gun control lowers violant crimes is BS. Do you relize how easy it is to build an ak47 using stamped parts. Your just going to create a black market for guns.

 

If it was not guns it would be some other tool to cause harm to the other person.

[Scotty2Hotty]

 

The argument that gun control lowers violant crimes is BS. Do you relize how easy it is to build an ak47 using stamped parts. Your just going to create a black market for guns.

 

How many people honestly would know how to field strip and construct an AK47? Not too many, I don't see a bunch of gang bangers getting online to take a quick gunsmith course on the AK47. Most crimes are commited with the High Point 9mm's, which by far is the cheapest piece to be seen on the market.

[thorne]

There inlays the black market. I could do it. I built my own reciever and shit its not hard. That means people that know how could sell them and add more black market money to the mix.

[Scotty2Hotty]

There inlays the black market. I could do it. I built my own reciever and shit its not hard. That means people that know how could sell them and add more black market money to the mix.

This is true, but I think a majority of gun owners and those with knowledgable firearm experience would not build and sell to criminals. I know that 99% of gun owners would not dare sell their arms illegally to felons or other than trustful people.

[92lx50]

This thread made me pop out of the woodwork after three years of lurking here. This is my second post on this board. (I just posted a welcome in the classroom) I'm sure I'm going to get STFU NOOB!, but I happen to have just a little bit of knowledge about this issue.

 

I've made a fulltime living selling guns in Central Ohio for the last 10 years, and recently became a Type 7 FFL/ Type 2 SOT. (For the cliffnotes on that shorthand, I'm a licensed manufacturer of guns, machineguns & silencers. Here we are on a performance car enthusiasts website discussing gun control. There are so many parallels between high performance automobiles and guns, I can't begin to name them all.

 

Suffice it to say, as far as potential lethality, any car is much more dangerous than any gun. Dirty Harry's 44 magnum contained 684 foot pounds of muzzle energy per pull of the trigger. How many foot pounds of energy does a 3,000 lb car going 60 mph have?

 

The biggest proponents of gun control are the same people who believe no one needs a street car that will go faster than 70mph because that's the legal speed limit, and if we all were legislated into driving electric cars, the world would be a safer place.

 

Gun laws do nothing to legislate personal responsibility. The ONLY place you can control childrens access to firearms is within the walls of your own home, so education is key. As several others have mentioned, Criminals by definition don't bother to obey laws and don't obtain firearms through legal channels. You want to make a small fortune (illegally)? Purchase a bunch of handguns legally and take them and some ammunition to a major city with restrictive gun control. The same handgun you can purchase here for $500 sells for $1500 in NYC or Washington DC on the black market. That's for a "clean piece". Once it's used in a shooting, the scumbags give it away for free because they don't want to be caught holding the gun they used in a shooting.

 

Firearms are relatively simple mechanical devices. Legislate them enough and make the black market lucrative enough, and the streets will be flooded. Cocaine is a controlled substance, posession of any amount is good for jail time, yet hand the average college student $500 and give them an hour and they'll come back with some. By the same token, hand the right person $500 and they'll be back with a "black market" gun in the same amount of time.

 

BTW, don't fall for the statistics of gun control. More children under age 5 drown in 5 gallon buckets than are shot in the USA. In order to get the horrid statistics about how many "children" are maimed and killed by firearms every year, "they" have to take the age of "children" up to 23 in order to include all the gang bangers who shoot each other.

[El Karacho1647545492]

BTW, don't fall for the statistics of gun control. More children under age 5 drown in 5 gallon buckets than are shot in the USA. In order to get the horrid statistics about how many "children" are maimed and killed by firearms every year, "they" have to take the age of "children" up to 23 in order to include all the gang bangers who shoot each other.

 

You're obviously knowledgable on the subject, so I won't challenge anything you've said except this; whether or not more people die doing something else other than shooting each other, do you really think relativity factors in? If your son or daughter died in a complete and total gun-related accident, would you find solace in the fact that there was a greater chance he or she would've died in an electrical fire or drowning in the bathtub or whatever? My point is that regardless of how relatively uncommon it is, without question I think we have a responsibility as citizens of a democratic nation to do ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING in our power to prevent any child from dying by gun-related accident. We should never be content to say "well, we've done enough" because until there are 0 children dying because of irresponsibility, there is always more we can do.

[RedRocket1647545505]

You're obviously knowledgable on the subject, so I won't challenge anything you've said except this; whether or not more people die doing something else other than shooting each other, do you really think relativity factors in? If your son or daughter died in a complete and total gun-related accident, would you find solace in the fact that there was a greater chance he or she would've died in an electrical fire or drowning in the bathtub or whatever? My point is that regardless of how relatively uncommon it is, without question I think we have a responsibility as citizens of a democratic nation to do ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING in our power to prevent any child from dying by gun-related accident. We should never be content to say "well, we've done enough" because until there are 0 children dying because of irresponsibility, there is always more we can do.

 

Laws can't stop stupidity.