OSUGT Posted October 16, 2008 Report Share Posted October 16, 2008 Ok, so last night Obama said that if you have your current plan, you can keep it. He also said that small businesses will not be fined if they cannot afford or give coverage to employees. He also said that the uninsured will have the chance to buy into the same type of pool that he and Senator McCain enjoy. My question is this, what is the incentive for a small business to keep employee health insurance? If they boot everyone, they will just sign up on the govt plan. Right? Am I missing something? If this is the case, everyone not working for a "large business" is on socialized health care. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Putty Posted October 16, 2008 Report Share Posted October 16, 2008 He would create a new Small Business Health Tax Credit to help small businesses provide affordable health insurance to their employees which would lower costs for businesses by covering a portion of the catastrophic health costs they pay in return for lower premiums for employees. That's the business incentive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clifford Automotive Posted October 16, 2008 Report Share Posted October 16, 2008 Obama's "tax cut" is nothing but credits...And there will be a shit done to do to get them. Obama is in no way good for small business... With the tax plan he has in place...If you are a small business in his world your going to be scared to grow, because once you really start making money he will take it. I could lay it out into detail, but im busy running a small business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSUGT Posted October 16, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 16, 2008 He would create a new Small Business Health Tax Credit to help small businesses provide affordable health insurance to their employees which would lower costs for businesses by covering a portion of the catastrophic health costs they pay in return for lower premiums for employees. That's the business incentive. Thanks, but my question is not answered. Health insurance is an EXPENSE. If small business is not fined for dropping coverage, then why would you keep insurance benefits for employees when they can just suck it out of the govt? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngryBMW Posted October 16, 2008 Report Share Posted October 16, 2008 Thanks, but my question is not answered. Health insurance is an EXPENSE. If small business is not fined for dropping coverage, then why would you keep insurance benefits for employees when they can just suck it out of the govt? Get'em!! -Marc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Putty Posted October 16, 2008 Report Share Posted October 16, 2008 If you are a small business in his world your going to be scared to grow, because once you really start making money he will take it. At what point do you migrate from a small business to a medium or large business...(rhetorical). Hell less than $250K a year is small, but if you exceed that into mid to high 6 figures...imo, you are no longer a small business. Sounds to me you wanna continue to pretend to be a small business when in reality you aren't and continue to get small business benefits when you shouldn't be...the actual "small business" down the road should be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAOLE Posted October 16, 2008 Report Share Posted October 16, 2008 At what point do you migrate from a small business to a medium or large business...(rhetorical). Hell less than $250K a year is small, but if you exceed that into mid to high 6 figures...imo, you are no longer a small business. Sounds to me you wanna continue to pretend to be a small business when in reality you aren't and continue to get small business benefits when you shouldn't be...the actual "small business" down the road should be. I guess I am big business. ooooohhhhhh nnnnoooooeeeeesssss Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Putty Posted October 16, 2008 Report Share Posted October 16, 2008 I guess I am big business. Lucky you...I still get told what to do. Thanks, but my question is not answered. Well, let me read your question again cause you asked the incentive and I gave it to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTQ B4U Posted October 16, 2008 Report Share Posted October 16, 2008 It's all realtive, but IMO, anything less than $5M / yr is a small business. $250k yr for a business isn't shit. Not meaning to pick on anyone who's business is that small, but really....in the grand scheme $250k for a business is nothing and depending on what the profit levels are the take home for the owner of said business is likely relatively low. At what point do you migrate from a small business to a medium or large business...(rhetorical). Hell less than $250K a year is small, but if you exceed that into mid to high 6 figures...imo, you are no longer a small business. Sounds to me you wanna continue to pretend to be a small business when in reality you aren't and continue to get small business benefits when you shouldn't be...the actual "small business" down the road should be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Putty Posted October 16, 2008 Report Share Posted October 16, 2008 It's all realtive, but IMO, anything less than $5M LOL...damn dude! A small business owner is not a millionaire in my book. These are the fundamental differences between us...lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAOLE Posted October 16, 2008 Report Share Posted October 16, 2008 It's all realtive, but IMO, anything less than $5M / yr is a small business. $250k yr for a business isn't shit. Not meaning to pick on anyone who's business is that small, but really....in the grand scheme $250k for a business is nothing and depending on what the profit levels are the take home for the owner of said business is likely relatively low. I am lucky that I run an overhead of less than 50%. I have a friend that has a business, he grosses more than 1 mill per year and because his overhead is so high he makes about the same as I do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTQ B4U Posted October 16, 2008 Report Share Posted October 16, 2008 Again, it's all relative. And besides, folks with revenues of $1-$5M aren't typically millionaires. Perhaps over time they will be, but their annual pay isn't likely near $1M. LOL...damn dude! A small business owner is not a millionaire in my book. These are the fundamental differences between us...lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTQ B4U Posted October 16, 2008 Report Share Posted October 16, 2008 I agree. My brother and law and sister in law have a Chiro practice in Oregon. Both practice and they have three employees. Let's just say they do very well with such low overhead. My brother in law is Japanese and works like a mad-man with how many patients they can roll through there though My wife had her law practice up to a fair number of people including 3 other attorneys working for her it was the same as your situation. She makes far more now with just her, a paralegal and a receptionist and now a part time assistant/lawyer....but she's been slammed with bankruptcies.....that's a good and bad thing I suppose..... I am lucky that I run an overhead of less than 50%. I have a friend that has a business, he grosses more than 1 mill per year and because his overhead is so high he makes about the same as I do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpaceGhost Posted October 16, 2008 Report Share Posted October 16, 2008 Small business owners want healthcare for themselves also people, by having their employees with them on a plan the owner chooses, he will get a better rate while getting a tax credit. And in these days competition to get good employees you will need to have benifits to attract and keep talent. BTW I don't want any small business owners posting in here about their new car or next fast project car, remember you will not be able to afford them in the next 8 years. Best close up shop now. You all can see the future, don't even give the guy a chance. Fuck it let's let bush run this joint another 4 years. Aparently all the small business owners are super well off now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSUGT Posted October 16, 2008 Author Report Share Posted October 16, 2008 Small business owners want healthcare for themselves also people, by having their employees with them on a plan the owner chooses, he will get a better rate while getting a tax credit. And in these days competition to get good employees you will need to have benifits to attract and keep talent. BTW I don't want any small business owners posting in here about their new car or next fast project car, remember you will not be able to afford them in the next 8 years. Best close up shop now. You all can see the future, don't even give the guy a chance. Fuck it let's let bush run this joint another 4 years. Aparently all the small business owners are super well off now. I'm always inspired when a read your posts... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAOLE Posted October 17, 2008 Report Share Posted October 17, 2008 Small business owners want healthcare for themselves also people, by having their employees with them on a plan the owner chooses, he will get a better rate while getting a tax credit. And in these days competition to get good employees you will need to have benifits to attract and keep talent. BTW I don't want any small business owners posting in here about their new car or next fast project car, remember you will not be able to afford them in the next 8 years. Best close up shop now. You all can see the future, don't even give the guy a chance. Fuck it let's let bush run this joint another 4 years. Aparently all the small business owners are super well off now. I guess if you have never been an business owner you would not know how crazy you sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAOLE Posted October 17, 2008 Report Share Posted October 17, 2008 I agree. My brother and law and sister in law have a Chiro practice in Oregon. Both practice and they have three employees. Let's just say they do very well with such low overhead. My brother in law is Japanese and works like a mad-man with how many patients they can roll through there though My wife had her law practice up to a fair number of people including 3 other attorneys working for her it was the same as your situation. She makes far more now with just her, a paralegal and a receptionist and now a part time assistant/lawyer....but she's been slammed with bankruptcies.....that's a good and bad thing I suppose..... That is a great thing about my business I have no cost associated with my product beside equipment cost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Science Abuse Posted October 17, 2008 Report Share Posted October 17, 2008 If this is the case, everyone not working for a "large business" is on socialized health care. So? everyone ...is on ...health care.Of some kind. [/thread] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTQ B4U Posted October 17, 2008 Report Share Posted October 17, 2008 Hopefully the new plan would also include provisions for people to get their asses in shape and stay healthy or have them pay more and me pay less. As a healthy person who doesn't smoke, use drugs nor is overweight or in a high risk group of any type, I'm pissed that I should pay the same premium as the fat dude next to me who smokes like a chimney and eats like shit. Charge them more and me less..... He would create a new Small Business Health Tax Credit to help small businesses provide affordable health insurance to their employees which would lower costs for businesses by covering a portion of the catastrophic health costs they pay in return for lower premiums for employees. That's the business incentive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conesmasher Posted October 17, 2008 Report Share Posted October 17, 2008 Ok, so last night Obama said that if you have your current plan, you can keep it. He also said that small businesses will not be fined if they cannot afford or give coverage to employees. He also said that the uninsured will have the chance to buy into the same type of pool that he and Senator McCain enjoy. My question is this, what is the incentive for a small business to keep employee health insurance? If they boot everyone, they will just sign up on the govt plan. Right? Am I missing something? If this is the case, everyone not working for a "large business" is on socialized health care. Because of a thing called adverse selection. Once all of these high risk people start to go to the gov't for insurance this "pool" is going to cost a lot of money. Remember these people pay for their own coverage. Additionally, many "big business" health insurance policies are very competitive with what the federales provide. So why.... 1.) It'll cost more 2.) It won't be as good of coverage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conesmasher Posted October 17, 2008 Report Share Posted October 17, 2008 LOL...damn dude! A small business owner is not a millionaire in my book. These are the fundamental differences between us...lol Small business have a variety of ways of being defined. Whether it be by amount of employees, or types of industries. Some farms can gross over $7million, but their margin is razor thin, they might be able to bring home $60-70k per se. They still can be considered a small biz. Small business aren't only your mom and pop video stores that make 200k a year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conesmasher Posted October 17, 2008 Report Share Posted October 17, 2008 Hopefully the new plan would also include provisions for people to get their asses in shape and stay healthy or have them pay more and me pay less. As a healthy person who doesn't smoke, use drugs nor is overweight or in a high risk group of any type, I'm pissed that I should pay the same premium as the fat dude next to me who smokes like a chimney and eats like shit. Charge them more and me less..... Sounds like you need a high deductible plan! Cost me $125/month vs my previous HMO which was $450/month. I'm a fat ass, but I quit smoking and no huge health risks at this time. Don't pay if you don't have to. If you can go HSA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orion Posted October 17, 2008 Report Share Posted October 17, 2008 So? so, if youve ever been to any of the myriad other countries that have it, you know that it sucks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTQ B4U Posted October 17, 2008 Report Share Posted October 17, 2008 No thanks. HSA's are not worth it unless you're single and young. I'm 38 and have two kids. No way I want to be responsible for every penny of the first $4k-6k on top of the monthly premium. They've offered it at my previous employers and very few enrolled. Besides, IMO, they don't help the average person who can't afford to fund the HSA Account up front. More and more employers are funding the accounts less. Sounds like you need a high deductible plan! Cost me $125/month vs my previous HMO which was $450/month. I'm a fat ass, but I quit smoking and no huge health risks at this time. Don't pay if you don't have to. If you can go HSA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HAOLE Posted October 17, 2008 Report Share Posted October 17, 2008 No thanks. HSA's are not worth it unless you're single and young. I'm 38 and have two kids. No way I want to be responsible for every penny of the first $4k-6k on top of the monthly premium. They've offered it at my previous employers and very few enrolled. Besides, IMO, they don't help the average person who can't afford to fund the HSA Account up front. More and more employers are funding the accounts less. I have coverage that cost me about 175/mo for a family of four. We have a $2500 deductible per person. I calculate how much we spend on health care per year vs. the cost of going with a $500 deductible. I save thousands per year. The secret is if you have a low deductible, you are going to pay for it. For example. $500 deductible plan cost about 1000/mo for a family of four. That is 12k per year. I have a $2500 per person dectuctible plan. I pay $175/month, that is $2100/year. That saves me 10k per year in premiums. My wife,my kids and I have never used 10K in health care in 17 years. Seems like a high deductible plan works for me. The plan that we have now I have paid into for the last 6 years. That is about 60k in savings over that period of time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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