dragknee66 Posted December 12, 2008 Author Report Share Posted December 12, 2008 A simple reality, WE DON'T NEED 3. There isn't enough demand, paying them to stay open means nothing. Ya even if they stay open.. people arent buying shit so it doesnt matter. They NEED to build cars that... 1.) last like a Honda/Toyota 2.) get amazing gas milage like Honda/Toyota ^ for example Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Karacho1647545492 Posted December 12, 2008 Report Share Posted December 12, 2008 http://money.cnn.com/2008/12/12/news/companies/auto_future/index.htm?postversion=2008121209 I don't know why we even bother to vote anymore, all our decisions are made by one motherfucker. Time for a revolution! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallard Posted December 12, 2008 Report Share Posted December 12, 2008 Ya even if they stay open.. people arent buying shit so it doesnt matter. They NEED to build cars that... 1.) last like a Honda/Toyota 2.) get amazing gas milage like Honda/Toyota ^ for example 1) Check the latest quality ratings. They do. Ford is actually rated higher quality than Toyota. 2) They do. Other than the Prius GM and Ford make more fuel efficient cars than Toyota. Toyota has a truck-heavy line up too and they get a lot worse mileage than GM/Ford/Dodge. The 2010 Fusion Hybrid (they start building them for sale in Jan/Feb) gets 6 mpg better than the Camry hybrid. Is one test they averaged 43 mpg. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallard Posted December 12, 2008 Report Share Posted December 12, 2008 I have no sympathy for people who build cars or sell cars. Let em all burn. The economy won't go into depression. We'll survive. Ford will be fine regardless. Car mechanics will be fine. And all those UAW workers can find other jobs they're qualified for. Ditch digger comes to mind... For the record I was also against the Financial Industry bailout. In a supplier based system it doesn't work like that. If the bankruptcy of GM or Chrysler causes the bankruptcy of a supplier (which it certainly will) than Ford's supply line will be cut too. Plants will be shut down, people laid off, money lost. Toyota will be affected in the same manner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brrcats Posted December 12, 2008 Report Share Posted December 12, 2008 1) Check the latest quality ratings. They do. Ford is actually rated higher quality than Toyota. 2) They do. Other than the Prius GM and Ford make more fuel efficient cars than Toyota. Toyota has a truck-heavy line up too and they get a lot worse mileage than GM/Ford/Dodge. The 2010 Fusion Hybrid (they start building them for sale in Jan/Feb) gets 6 mpg better than the Camry hybrid. Is one test they averaged 43 mpg. not according to 2008 JDPower and associates http://www.jdpower.com/autos/ratings/quality-ratings-by-brand/sortcolumn-1/ascending/page-1#page-anchor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farkas Posted December 12, 2008 Report Share Posted December 12, 2008 1) Check the latest quality ratings. They do. Ford is actually rated higher quality than Toyota. Biggest crock of shit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokin5s Posted December 12, 2008 Report Share Posted December 12, 2008 I don't know why everyone talks about how great Toyota quality is.... a co-worker of mine has a new camry and I think it's the biggest piece of shit I've ever ridden in. Interior looks plan and I feel like I'm riding in a tin can... His son also has a 4 year old Camry.... just spent 600 dollars on it beacuse it had an electrical short in it causing the battery to die. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OSUGT Posted December 12, 2008 Report Share Posted December 12, 2008 Biggest crock of shit. Truth hurts. Ford is right there quality wise. Quit bitching about quality gaps that do not exist. I realize that perception is reality. However, the new reality is that Americans need to start considering Ford and GM again. Fun stuff coming from Ford: EcoBoost Technology 2010 Taurus (Yeah, jones, the Taurus is cool again!) 2010 Fusion/hybrid as stated above Ford Fiesta (hot new small car) SVT Raptor As I said before, the CEO of Ford is 2 years into a turnaround plan. He guided Boeing to profitability and Ford was profitable in the first quarter of this year. In fact, they have declined any bailout money right now because of a better cash position than the other 2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug1647545489 Posted December 12, 2008 Report Share Posted December 12, 2008 I don't know why everyone talks about how great Toyota quality is.... a co-worker of mine has a new camry and I think it's the biggest piece of shit I've ever ridden in. Interior looks plan and I feel like I'm riding in a tin can... His son also has a 4 year old Camry.... just spent 600 dollars on it beacuse it had an electrical short in it causing the battery to die. My 07 Scion has a bunch of stupid problems that are fairly widespread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caseyctsv Posted December 12, 2008 Report Share Posted December 12, 2008 If they go Under, I wonder what this will do to the Value of all those Mustangs, F-bodys, Corvettes, Vipers, GTOs and such? Old and New. My car will be worth $1 million...profit. So do we think the government can run the Big 3 better than the auto industry did? I think the government should fix its own problems before meddling in another industry. I do however, support loans to the automakers if the companies were to agree to restructure significantly - PRIOR to getting the $. This would include the UAW getting their head out of their a$$. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caseyctsv Posted December 12, 2008 Report Share Posted December 12, 2008 Biggest crock of shit. I owned an 02 GTI 1.8T - biggest piece of shit I have ever owned - bought it new and in 13 months left me stranded twice and had interior rattles from day 1. The quality gap is no longer a reality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTQ B4U Posted December 13, 2008 Report Share Posted December 13, 2008 The quality gap is no longer a reality. I will agree in most cases, more now than just a few years ago. IMO, the problem of the big three is they run inefficiently, have tons of baggage. regarding cars, they just need to get to producing cars people want and cut bate on the rest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mowgli1647545497 Posted December 13, 2008 Report Share Posted December 13, 2008 If they go Under, I wonder what this will do to the Value of all those Mustangs, F-bodys, Corvettes, Vipers, GTOs and such? Old and New. Ford's not going anywhere. But maybe my V will appreciate. Shah! Yeah right, and monkies will fly out of my butt. In a supplier based system it doesn't work like that. If the bankruptcy of GM or Chrysler causes the bankruptcy of a supplier (which it certainly will) than Ford's supply line will be cut too. Plants will be shut down, people laid off, money lost. Toyota will be affected in the same manner.I understand ripple. I also understand contingency and the opportunity of crisis. What I said is right. There never existed an established demand without a supplier. Those gaps get filled so fast it makes your head spin. If GM and Chrysler go tits up Toyota and Ford will be in the same supply boat. And they'll both still be around. Also, not that its relevent to this subject, but just by way of general ledger trivia: Ford can shut down its North America market, completely, and survive. Right now, Toyota can't. But the Jap govt would bail them out, so they'd emerge alive. Everybody's hurting. Some had cash in the bank, some don't. Sucks to be GM/Chrysler. ------------ Actually I'd love all three to go down just to extinct the North American UAW Worker species. Morbid curiousity. Then I'd love to see them try to establish that union bullshit in some other industry. Any other industry. I'd really love to watch that trainwreck. Laughing and pointing would be involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OGRE Posted December 13, 2008 Report Share Posted December 13, 2008 Ya even if they stay open.. people arent buying shit so it doesnt matter. They NEED to build cars that... 1.) last like a Honda/Toyota 2.) get amazing gas milage like Honda/Toyota ^ for example That is the problem, GM ecotech motors do last very well, and get very good mileage. But The public stigma has taken hold. You do have a point as far as build quality though, even my 07 G5 is already getting buggy, stereo buttons, not working and a rattle in the rear susp. but i have seen 36-37mpg out of my 2.4L. In the same breath i could care less if one of the big 3 falls, i dont believe that the end of one means none of them can survive. When they asked that the union lower thier wages, the union said no. Right there tells me they are stupid enough to slit thier own neck, let it happen. GM has moved production jobs to other countries, they need to ask mexico and canada, and whoever else for some cash too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPLN SUX Posted December 13, 2008 Report Share Posted December 13, 2008 Here's what i don't get... Whose stupid ass idea, was it to allow banks to give out BOTH home loans AND Auto loans simultaneously? Did noone, anywhere ever say to themselves... "hmm... this might be a problem if the housing market goes to shit..." We keep the government all chopped up into checks and balances, why not the one thing that drives its economy? We created our own hole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallard Posted December 13, 2008 Report Share Posted December 13, 2008 Ford can shut down its North America market, completely, and survive. Right now, Toyota can't. But the Jap govt would bail them out, so they'd emerge alive. I understand what you're saying, but also realize that a lot of the suppliers are global. For instance, if the company I work for (or some of our competitors) file Ch. 11 and can't ship parts to plants we would shout down Ford, GM, Chrysler, Toyota, Honda, BMW, Mercedes, Nissan, Hyundai, VW/Audi, Bugatti, some Chinese company's, some Russian company's...everyone in the industry and since we are a global company this would happen all around the world. Now I don't think the company I work for is in danger of doing that, but I know of others that are. My company would just have massive layoffs. GM has moved production jobs to other countries, they need to ask mexico and canada, and whoever else for some cash too. They are already talking with Canada. Sweden already promised aid for Volvo and Saab. Austrailia has alrady done this for their divisions also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HotCarl Posted December 13, 2008 Report Share Posted December 13, 2008 Will someone please inform me, just because a company files for bankruptcy doesnt mean they will cease to exsist. They can file then reorganize under bankruptcy law's which, of course, would mean they would get rid of the unions correct?? So while this would be horrible for the economy in the short term (short term being the next few years) it doesnt neccessarily mean Ford/GM/Chrysler will stop producing correct? Then again if the UAW saw the writing on the wall and their impending doom Im sure they would pull all of their employee's out and strike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wagner Posted December 13, 2008 Report Share Posted December 13, 2008 Will someone please inform me, just because a company files for bankruptcy doesnt mean they will cease to exsist. They can file then reorganize under bankruptcy law's which, of course, would mean they would get rid of the unions correct?? So while this would be horrible for the economy in the short term (short term being the next few years) it doesnt neccessarily mean Ford/GM/Chrysler will stop producing correct? Then again if the UAW saw the writing on the wall and their impending doom Im sure they would pull all of their employee's out and strike. Yes they can restructure under bankruptcy. The problem is that the worry is nobody would buy a car from a bankrupt company. If they file for bankruptcy the UAW will be done and as some have posted these companies will have a shot at a profit but other stuff will need to be done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berto Posted December 13, 2008 Report Share Posted December 13, 2008 Fire UAW workers and hire the unemployed. Dissolve the union. All you need a is a warm body to turn a wrench. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mowgli1647545497 Posted December 15, 2008 Report Share Posted December 15, 2008 Well you need two bodies. One to turn the wrench and one to man the machine guns at the walls to shoot the picketing/charging UAW zombies. Still cheaper than one UAW worker. I know what job I'm applying for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brrcats Posted December 15, 2008 Report Share Posted December 15, 2008 Well you need two bodies. One to turn the wrench and one to man the machine guns at the walls to shoot the picketing/charging UAW zombies. Still cheaper than one UAW worker. I know what job I'm applying for. If I could get benefits I'd be all over the zombie shooting :bangbang: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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