thorne Posted April 3, 2009 Report Share Posted April 3, 2009 I just finished my rough tune of E85. I'm still working on getting the AFR's right. I want to get my gauge displaying 11.7ish but I'm at 11.1's now. I'm amazed at e85. I mean I was setting the boost and my old boost controller was 1 turn 1 psi. Well the Halman is not that way. I gave it 2 turns and I watched my boost gauge go WAY past 1.5 bars... no knock. I'm not sure if i just found the sweet spot on the injectors or what but my car is idling better now too. I'll post more info once I get time to go get the dyno done at ips. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Jones Posted April 3, 2009 Report Share Posted April 3, 2009 http://woodwhat.com/drawring/possum.JPG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thorne Posted April 3, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 3, 2009 Thats good funny right there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpaceGhost Posted April 3, 2009 Report Share Posted April 3, 2009 How do you account for the fuel trimm being wide open and throwing a cell since the fuel is way more oxygenated? Also how do you plan to fight the corrosiveness of Alcohol on Aluminum? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wnaplay1647545503 Posted April 3, 2009 Report Share Posted April 3, 2009 Heres a question, why bother? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twistedfocus1647545489 Posted April 3, 2009 Report Share Posted April 3, 2009 Heres a question, why bother? Relatively cheap & readily available high octane fuel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thorne Posted April 3, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 3, 2009 How do you account for the fuel trimm being wide open and throwing a cell since the fuel is way more oxygenated? Also how do you plan to fight the corrosiveness of Alcohol on Aluminum? The trims are CAKE. I just changed my injector scaling. Right now I'm trying to dial it in to 11.7 on a gasoline lambda. the corrosiveness I've read is not that big of a deal atleast according to nasico long term tests. I've already spoke with IPS about E85 safe parts. And why do this? It's like race gas you can afford every day. I'm running 22.5 lbs of boost and the car is 100% knock free. It was knock free at 26lbs. I do have a problem though the stock MAP can only read 23.07 as the max boost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koolrayz Posted April 3, 2009 Report Share Posted April 3, 2009 I just bought 3 drums of pure ethanol. I'll mix it down with a little C-16 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattsv8 Posted April 4, 2009 Report Share Posted April 4, 2009 that sounds a little lean to me for e85 still arround 25% to 30% richer. that wouldent be just one mark on afr??? i duno but my turbo car loves e85 as well and drive quite nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattsv8 Posted April 4, 2009 Report Share Posted April 4, 2009 ethonol is no where near as crossive as meth. i have a aluminum fuel cell. and its perfect inside. my heads are aluminum and so is the intake. perfect after a season on the fuel. with the 355 and spray. and e85 and spray works awsome. the only thing i can say is it does absorb water. so if it sits dont race on it. just idle or drive it out then get fresh. and watch it in the winter i drain mine out and put a little regular gas through the system. so far ive never had 1 problem. im just gald more people arent using it so it stays cheap as hell!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draco-REX Posted April 4, 2009 Report Share Posted April 4, 2009 Got one of these? http://www.zeitronix.com/Products/ECA/ECA.htm I'd recommend it if you don't. "E85" you get from a pump can be as low as E65 in the winter. Also, I believe stoiciometric for E85 is 9.7:1, but I think O2 sensors read lambda. So it seems you're running rich. I think you can set up the LC-1 for other fuel types, then it's just a matter of adjusting the output to get the gauge reading what you want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tristanlee85 Posted April 4, 2009 Report Share Posted April 4, 2009 Thorne, take me for a drive? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattsv8 Posted April 4, 2009 Report Share Posted April 4, 2009 mine is a auto meter i can set air fuel for stoich . they show it at 9.0 for ethonol but i believe that is straight. 100 % id believe it to be close to that 9.7. mine runs at 7.4 at idle and more at wot. with it set as 9.0 as stoich. i can set as lamda too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattsv8 Posted April 4, 2009 Report Share Posted April 4, 2009 if you dont get it from a pump where do you get it???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thorne Posted April 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 5, 2009 that sounds a little lean to me for e85 still arround 25% to 30% richer. that wouldent be just one mark on afr??? i duno but my turbo car loves e85 as well and drive quite nice. Umm your thinking if i had it set for E85. In which case it would be very very lean. Gasoline stoichiometric 14.7 0.068 1 1 Gasoline max power rich 12.5 0.08 1.176 0.8503 Gasoline max power lean 13.23 0.0755 1.111 0.900 E85 stoichiometric 9.765 0.10235 1 1 E85 max power rich 6.975 0.1434 1.40 0.7143 E85 max power lean 8.4687 0.118 1.153 0.8673 E100 stoichiometric 9.0078 0.111 1 1 E100 max power rich 6.429 0.155 1.4 0.714 E100 max power lean 7.8 0.128 1.15 0.870 Notice 12.5 = .85 in lamb E85 showing a 11.7 if my gauge is set for Gasoline is not bad. Actually I'm sure I could go leaner. I'm going to switch my gauge to lambada I think i can atleast Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thorne Posted April 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 5, 2009 I am going to switch my car over to E85 on the gauge once I've got more time. and Tristan Sure let me know when and were. I'm impressed at what the car is doing down low now. Fucking nutty. I'm also spooling a little faster I need to take time to do some graphs and shit but If I can keep finding it I am going to stay 100% E85. BTW I drove to trail autocross drove home with a little tango with a evo . So I was hotdoggin most of the day. 15mpg observed. I was impressed. I normally get 18-22 I can't wait to get this all the way dialed in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tristanlee85 Posted April 5, 2009 Report Share Posted April 5, 2009 I usually get 25mpg with it. That will include a couple decent pulls. Tune it out a little bit and you'll bump it up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thorne Posted April 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 5, 2009 Where are you aiming on your car btw? I got to see what modes my lc-1 can do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thorne Posted April 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 5, 2009 darn It can display it in Ethanol terms but I can't tell it to just give me the lambda. I'm not sure what I should set it to. If I set it to gas like I have it I just need to convert the numbers. I got to make a decision soon because I've got to lean this out . then off to the dyno. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tristanlee85 Posted April 5, 2009 Report Share Posted April 5, 2009 Set it to gasoline. As I mentioned in the PM, the sensor reads lambda so as long as the gauge is set to gasoline, shoot for 14.7 as stoich just like you would if you were tuning with that. NOTE: when the gauge is reading 14.7, that's because the sensor is reading 1 lambda. It is doing the AFR calculation for you already (obviously). Though the gauge is reading 14.7, the actual "true" ratio in the combustion chamber is really going to be 9.7:1 (or whatever the accurate value is). It's confusing to understand why it works that way, because it really don't make too much sense at the beginning. When I first swapped to to E85, I spent a good bit of time trying to re-write the algorithm in my tuning software to display E85 AFRs until I realized that I just still shoot for the same AFRs as I have been. So, again like I mentioned in the PM, if at say 18psi you were shooting for 11.7:1, then with E85, make sure that gauge is reading 11.7:1 as well. Also notice that while gasoline and E85 lambda values are the same stoichiometricly, they do differ in their lambda max rich and max lean power values. Maybe someday in person I can explain it to make more sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave1647545494 Posted April 5, 2009 Report Share Posted April 5, 2009 I am trying e85 in my flex fuel van right now and I'm dissapointed the perfromance is the same but the fucking mileage is so bad its actually more expensive to run e85 than it is to run 100% gasoline Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tristanlee85 Posted April 5, 2009 Report Share Posted April 5, 2009 Performance is better if you tune it accordingly. E85 with lower mileage is cheaper than 94 octane with higher mileage. With E85 I get about 15.3 miles per dollar where as with 94 octane I get about 11.7 miles per dollar. So, on a performance end it can be cheaper, but for your DD that uses 87 normally you're losing money, but helping emissions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cordell Posted April 5, 2009 Report Share Posted April 5, 2009 Thorne, you can change the output of your LC1 through the serial port. Got this off of another forum, it seems right but I'm not for sure. Set the LC1 up with these values as output. "2. calabrated the lc1 to read 0v = 6 afr and 5v = 14 afr." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattsv8 Posted April 5, 2009 Report Share Posted April 5, 2009 cool im going to do some driving today. im resetting the airfuel to 9.72 for stoich and ill tune off of that. i believe that puts it dead on with 15lbs . damn i love e85. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thorne Posted April 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 5, 2009 I am trying e85 in my flex fuel van right now and I'm dissapointed the perfromance is the same but the fucking mileage is so bad its actually more expensive to run e85 than it is to run 100% gasoline FFV 's BLOW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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