assfault junkies new rider training

[Todd#43]

lots of orange cones and a nice large parking lot. bring some brooms so you can sweep it clean...

thats going to be the safest option of them all, if you are so inclined to actually pursue this.

there are some nice "traning exercises" you can do that are pictured in a lot of books. 30 ft radius circle for example, figure 8's etc... bring your "instructional session" into a place where you can limit/control the variables involved.

as far as todd goes -- AMA superbike level eh? so the mystery unfolds... hmm. im sure you'd be interesting to talk to in person about the sport, nevermind your e-persona.

I said I've been involved with AMA racing at the Superbike level. I'm not nearly good enough to race at that level.

By the way, if you don't like me here, you probably wouldn't like me in real life. I'm pretty much the same, you just don't have to look at me here.

[natedogg624]

lol dude I dont care what anyone is like on here. its the internet. not a big deal how you act.

i'd probably still like to talk to you about your involvement, like i said im interested in all aspects of it. unless you were the team's waterboy, then maybe not so much...

but seeing as i'd probably never meet you in person unless we somehow by chance do the same trackday together, and even though i dont think i'd know you were even there...

[Random Negro]

that's awesome i'm willing to learn everything there is to learn about my bike and bikes in general. whenever it gets warmer i'm down ahead of time.

[rockybalboa]

I want to be the first person to sign up for this "school". I really need help with my riding.I think I have all the nessicary saftey equipment needed.

[Catman]

when it gets warm. I will start a new thread when we get riding again. Also i do have a 4acre parking lot and tons of cones!

If you have a private lot and cones to block off the entrance, so the public cannot enter ?<<< This is important ! I am so in !! I LOVE to learn and who knows, I may have something to contribute also ?? Ya never know ? ha

Get the property owner to sign this, and keep his copy ? Carry your copy of this on you , as the person in charge !

WAIVER/RELEASE AGREEMENT

I understand that there are risks and dangers inherent in participating and/or receiving instruction in Controlled Motorcycle Riding, herein after referred to as "Activity". I also understand that in order to be allowed to participate and/or receive instruction in Activity, I must give up my rights to hold ________________________liable for any injury or damage that I may suffer while participating and/or receiving instruction in Activity.

Knowing this, and in consideration of being permitted to participate and/or receive instruction in Activity, I hereby voluntarily release _____________________ from any and all liability resulting from or arising out of my participation and/or receipt of instruction in Activity.

I understand and agree that I am releasing not only the entities set forth in the paragraph above, but also the officers, agents, and employees of those entities.

I understand and agree that this Waiver/Release will have the effect of releasing, discharging, waiving and forever relinquishing any and all actions or causes of action that I may have or have had, whether past, present or future, whether known or unknown, and whether anticipated or unanticipated by me, arising out of my participation and/or receipt of instruction in Activity.

I understand and agree that this Waiver/Release applies to personal injury, property damage, or wrongful death which I may suffer, even if caused by the acts or omissions of others.

I understand and agree that by signing this Waiver/Release, I am assuming full responsibility for any and all risk of death or personal injury or property damage suffered by me while participating and/or receiving instruction in Activity.

I understand and agree that this Waiver/Release will be binding on me, my spouse, my heirs, my personal representatives, my assignees, my children and any guardian ad litem for said children.

I understand and agree that by signing this Waiver/Release, I am agreeing to release, indemnify and hold ____________________________, agents or employees harmless from any and all liability or costs, including attorney’s fees, associated with or arising from my participation and/or receipt of instruction in Activity.

I understand and agree that if I am signing this Waiver/Release on behalf of my minor child, that I will be giving up the same rights for said minor as I would be giving up if I signed this document of my own behalf.

I acknowledge that I have read this Waiver/Release Agreement and that I understand the words and language in it. I have been advised of the potential dangers incidental to participating and/or receiving instruction in Activity .

Dated: _________________________,20________

Print Name: ________________________________

Sign Name: ________________________________

Witness: __________________________________

Address : __________________________________

And WE EACH CARRY ONE OF THESE ON OUR PERSONS !!!

I ______________ give permission for _______________ to engage in controlled motorcycle riding upon the premises. I have been given a thorough release/waiver signed by _______________, and my company and I am in no way responsible from actions taking place on the property.

I may deny permission to engage in Activity at any time for any reason without notification. I may choose to void this agreement at their sole discretion without reason or notification.

Dated: _________________________,20____________

Print Name: ____________________________________

Sign Name: ____________________________________

Witness: ______________________________________

Address :______________________________________

It's on like donkey kong !!

Edited February 2, 2009 by Catman

[wolfman]

I said I've been involved with AMA racing at the Superbike level. I'm not nearly good enough to race at that level.

Umbrella girl?

[Todd#43]

Umbrella girl?

Nahhh....not hot enough and too old for that.

[Earache]

Umbrella girl?

I've got a great story from a Daytona AMA race a few years ago that I was involved in. Funnier when told in person of course....

John Jacobi was racing in the 200 and needed a pit crew. Reuben (35Motorsports) and I ended up being the entire crew.

Reuben spent a couple of days in the garage making an ex-Vesrah endurance bike into a 200 bike while I watched. I probably swapped tires a coupel of times and put in some new brake pads, but that's all I did.

On race day, we're pitted right next to Duhamel and Honda. Miguel comes in for his first pit, the bike is swarmed by pit workers - two tires, gas and out in 15 seconds or so.

Jacobi comes in for his first stop. I'm standing there with the battery operated impact for the axles (Honda uses the high zoot air impacts) and John cruises right past me. Doh! We run past Honda and push him backwards to the pit. I pull the axles out, Reuben slams the new rims in and I replace the axles. Splash of gas and gone.

Only took about 2 minutes and 45 seconds:D

Jacobi blows outta the pits and I look over at the Honda crew - they're staring at us in disbelief like we're a bunch of noobs.

The rest of the pits weren't all that much faster, but Jacobi did pretty well that day with a 15th place or so. Not bad considering who he had working for him.

So, I too have AMA level experience. Doesn't make me fast though.

Edited February 2, 2009 by Earache

[Catman]

I notice folks here can't dissagree without argueing and picking fights ! That and the sea of chrome polishing sheep, may keep me around !! Bwahahahahahahahaha

Ass fuckers !!

I'm finnna pop a wheelie !!

[wolfman]

Nahhh....not hot enough and too old for that.

Proper response: I have a penis.

[wolfman]

I've got a great story from a Daytona AMA race a few years ago that I was involved in. Funnier when told in person of course....

John Jacobi was racing in the 200 and needed a pit crew. Reuben (35Motorsports) and I ended up being the entire crew.

Reuben spent a couple of days in the garage making an ex-Vesrah endurance bike into a 200 bike while I watched. I probably swapped tires a coupel of times and put in some new brake pads, but that's all I did.

On race day, we're pitted right next to Duhamel and Honda. Miguel comes in for his first pit, the bike is swarmed by pit workers - two tires, gas and out in 15 seconds or so.

Jacobi comes in for his first stop. I'm standing there with the battery operated impact for the axles (Honda uses the high zoot air impacts) and John cruises right past me. Doh! We run past Honda and push him backwards to the pit. I pull the axles out, Reuben slams the new rims in and I replace the axles. Splash of gas and gone.

Only took about 2 minutes and 45 seconds:D

Jacobi blows outta the pits and I look over at the Honda crew - they're staring at us in disbelief like we're a bunch of noobs.

The rest of the pits weren't all that much faster, but Jacobi did pretty well that day with a 15th place or so. Not bad considering who he had working for him.

So, I too have AMA level experience. Doesn't make me fast though.

Great story E!

I have a similar story involving an ARCA race. My dad is good friends with the brother (and crew chief) of a driver in the series, and we were invited to the pits. Of course we both wore shorts b/c it was hot as hell in Atlanta and we didn't know any better. I ended up wearing the driver's pants and my dad ended up wearing his crew chief's so we could stay in the pits. We even got to help push the car onto the grid (well I pushed the oil warmer/compressor thing). My dad has one job to do during the pit stop and that was to hand the window cleaner to a crew member so he could clean the windshield. My dad was so excited he turned around and was talking to me as the car rolled up and they were yelling for the window cleaner. :lol: I think we probably cost them a second or two that stop..

Edited February 2, 2009 by wolfman

[rktekbob]

todd why do u speak of what you dont know? Do u know any assfault junkies? have you even been to the track with us? We were at 15 diff track events and many WERA events this year and i didnt see ya. This is not a school and it will never be. It is rider training! I want everyone to go to the track for sure! I took 25+people to putnam last year many for their first time. I am taking another huge group there in April to help them learn in a safer way. I am trying to get the newer riders to set a safe pace on the road where most people get hurt or killed. What are you doing to promote safety to your fellow riders? What are you doing to help our sport advance? I am trying to make up for the bad things i have done and trying to make sure that other riders at least have someone they can go to if they need help weather on the street or on the track! Stop being haters!

i'm on the junkies site too...i'd love to go with you guys in april!

[gixxie750]

thanks for that catman! Its the parking lot at longworth hall and its owned by my family. I will post up the april track days l8ter.

[Radio Flyer]

Sounds like a cool idea to me. If you ever get closer to Columbus, I'd love to get some pointers as this will be my first season riding.

[Big Chief201]

what do most of us do anyway?? follow the leader.

yes, i know you should keep your own pace, but you will never get better or faster if you don't push yourself a little. i know for me, i do that by following someone.

i love the idea.

if you dont push yourself you dont end up with a totalled bike............... I follow people all the time, people that are going alot faster then me and not once have I ever wanted to "push" myself, you never really hear of someone wrecking for riding within their limits.

[SAMBUSA]

Here is what happens when you play follow the leaderhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXIOleQNPCQ

[gixxie750]

just like in that TL video if the front guy had gone slower none of the other riders would have had to play catch up. I'm going to keep it SLOOOOOW

[gixxie750]

See i know how exited people get when going fast. Some people can have self controll and hold their own pace. Then there are others who will get all mixed up in the exitment and begin to ride over their heads. It happens to all of us and can be avoided by having a slower rider lead the pack while watching the pack behind them. I have seen this on the street and on the track and it happens all the time. target fixation on the rider in front of you is something we all have to learn to avoid or bad things happen. I have little tips for people to help avoid the situation that the video showed. I wish i could just tell people to ride their own pace,but new riders dont even know what their own pace is!

[Moto-Brian]

^^^ That was embarrassing. I can't believe we get lumped in with those Martians. Those lines were terrible.

But it is a classic example of differences of ability and poor riding skills that if trained and taught in a controlled environment, could be avoided...

There were PISS POOR choices even if the rider in front was slower than what he was. There were a shit pile of close calls and inevitably, riders get strung out. We have the same issue at track days - people are different ability levels and we find ourselves getting groups too far apart. What happens? sometimes, we get that kid in the back trying too hard and balls his shit up trying to catch back up.

We run 2:00 lap times and still get kids crashing... It has nothing to do with speed...

[Moto-Brian]

just like in that TL video if the front guy had gone slower none of the other riders would have had to play catch up. I'm going to keep it SLOOOOOW

Again, it isn't a speed thing.

One, too many variables on the street. Too many things that riders need to pay attention to. Developing ability isn't going to happen on the street. If you want to develop skill, they need to do it on a track. Once that is developed, they can work on paying attention and focus on that. Trying to do both is when the shit hits the fan. They have to focus on you, focus on the road, focus on the cars, stones, etc. and focus on themselves and the bike. Too much for a newb.

Great intentions, Brandon, but realize that even at a slow pace, people are still going to be riding above their ability and you leading them around is going to have them trying too hard, not paying attention, riding above their limit, etc.

I had a kid once when I was working at the shop go out with me to ride. He wanted to learn some things. I was on a Magna (I think a 96 or so) and he on an FZR600. I rode slow and obviously had a machine that was not intended for sport riding. We were on a sweeping set of turns running VERY slow. Usually could rip through there at well over 100mph. I think we never saw 45-50...

He was tense and I told him he needed to relax and loosen up. BIG problem with newbies... Anyways, he ended up looking down at a ditch and went off rider's right. Balled up his bike and crashed it. That same issue trail riders get that are new and they look down at the rut instead of eyes forward thing...

The result was that he ended up hurting the bike and he had to pay out of pocket because he was afraid his insurance would increase too much seeing he was only 18...

I don't care who it is or how slow you go, the street is no place to learn how to ride a sportbike and on "twisties". $150 for a day at Bluegrass with STT and the Novice group is a better expense than possibly crashing your ride and paying $150 for a lower fairing... $150, right - probably more like $350... You get the idea.

Wide Open Wednesdays are going to happen at BG for $150 and over 7 hours of track time. You can't beat that.

[SAMBUSA]

You're wasteing your time

Again, it isn't a speed thing.

One, too many variables on the street. Too many things that riders need to pay attention to. Developing ability isn't going to happen on the street. If you want to develop skill, they need to do it on a track. Once that is developed, they can work on paying attention and focus on that. Trying to do both is when the shit hits the fan. They have to focus on you, focus on the road, focus on the cars, stones, etc. and focus on themselves and the bike. Too much for a newb.

Great intentions, Brandon, but realize that even at a slow pace, people are still going to be riding above their ability and you leading them around is going to have them trying too hard, not paying attention, riding above their limit, etc.

I had a kid once when I was working at the shop go out with me to ride. He wanted to learn some things. I was on a Magna (I think a 96 or so) and he on an FZR600. I rode slow and obviously had a machine that was not intended for sport riding. We were on a sweeping set of turns running VERY slow. Usually could rip through there at well over 100mph. I think we never saw 45-50...

He was tense and I told him he needed to relax and loosen up. BIG problem with newbies... Anyways, he ended up looking down at a ditch and went off rider's right. Balled up his bike and crashed it. That same issue trail riders get that are new and they look down at the rut instead of eyes forward thing...

The result was that he ended up hurting the bike and he had to pay out of pocket because he was afraid his insurance would increase too much seeing he was only 18...

I don't care who it is or how slow you go, the street is no place to learn how to ride a sportbike and on "twisties". $150 for a day at Bluegrass with STT and the Novice group is a better expense than possibly crashing your ride and paying $150 for a lower fairing... $150, right - probably more like $350... You get the idea.

Wide Open Wednesdays are going to happen at BG for $150 and over 7 hours of track time. You can't beat that.

[gixxie750]

i want everyone to go to the track! The BG track days will help me get people out finally. But new riders dont know anything and dont want to pay ANY money at first for anything. I am of course going to push track days like i always have,but no matter how hard i try people will always be riding the street. I will be at many of the BG wed things even if i have to drag new people just to watch if nothing else.

[blacktalon606]

It doesnt matter if he is trying to do this as a business or just try and pass along some track skills to new street riders. The first time someone gets hurt while trying to follow him on the street, he will be doomed. Someone will press charges saying that he is teaching people how to be reckless on the street and endangering peoples lives. No matter if his intentions are good, any judge/jury will agree that teaching track skills in a street environment is an endangerment to all those involved or bystanders. DO NOT TRY AND TEACH TRACK SKILLS ON THE STREET. YOU WILL BE FOUND AT FAULT FOR ANYTHING THAT HAPPENS.

And dont take this personally but your past BMV record and news exposure is only going to make it that much worse on you.

A hold harmless agreement signed by a willing adult and witnessed by anyone is pretty damn concrete even for the best lawyer. That doesnt' mean someone won't try... but they won't win.

[Moto-Brian]

A hold harmless agreement signed by a willing adult and witnessed by anyone is pretty damn concrete even for the best lawyer. That doesnt' mean someone won't try... but they won't win.

Wwrong. Racers ssign these waivers at the track and even after they get killed, family members can sue and will at LEAST get it in court enough to deplete one's financial holdings. They also can press a law suit if the party has ONE SSINGLE safety issue shown. That ONE ISSUE can result in a loss in court.

This deal that has been beaten to death, is a guy doing it on his own. Even with a proper drawn up letter and agreement, it wouldn't hold a lot of weight....

[that dude]

Quoted for majority truth. Actually' date=' it may all be true but I disagree with a small portion of it. However, I learned more in 6 hours at a STT track school than I did in 6 years of riding twisty roads with experienced riders. I learned a lot from the street but no matter how well intended my mates were the distractions were there. I do believe that you learn to ignore these distractions with seat time but a controlled environment is the superior choice.[/quote']

......i think i heard this before somewhere..