sprayin77 Posted May 19, 2009 Report Share Posted May 19, 2009 http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu56/sprayin77/SANY0281.jpgI would like to say that this place is awesome. Brian really knows his shit. After being told that my car was untuneable he proved them wrong. Brian took his time and worked out every kink in my car. I am impressed. I will be telling my friends to take there cars to him. Thanks alot brian http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu56/sprayin77/SANY0309.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DTM Brian Posted May 19, 2009 Report Share Posted May 19, 2009 Thank you Jerry for giving me the opportunity to tune your Camaro. Please let me know if you have any other questions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sprayin77 Posted May 19, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 19, 2009 you are very welcome. I will be back with others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KillJoy Posted May 19, 2009 Report Share Posted May 19, 2009 Nice numbers! It was goot meeting you last night at the Dyno. Brian knows his shit, and almost ALWAYS has bitchin results! KillJoy PS - Your cut-outs fail. I could barely hear the car! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricZ06 Posted May 19, 2009 Report Share Posted May 19, 2009 After being told that my car was untuneable he proved them wrong. Brian took his time and worked out every kink in my car. I am impressed. I'm sorry to poop in your thread Brian... I have no problem with you whatsoever on this but still need to add my 2 cents 1) I never said that your car was not tunable. 2) You brought your car in to me and it had issues right out of the gate (It would barely run when it showed up). I spent 2 hours driving your car the first day tuning/diagnosing and working things out for you, plus spending 1 hour on the dyno to find out your first problem.... After spending 3 hours on your car (for free) I advised you to remove the 1.8 rockers as are they are not recommended by any LS1 cam manufacturer (Including Texas-Speed who you bought the cam from, because of the aggressive ramp rate). 3) You bring the car back to me the following day with the correct rockers installed and I put it back on the dyno. After making 3 back to back pulls with the air/fuel jumping all over the place, I spend another 2 hours (for free) diagnosing your voltage issue. After the car is running for a few minutes at idle your voltage was 11.5-12v and never went over 13.1 when cruising etc. I then told you to replace the alternator (The most likely source of the problem) and bring the car back to me so we could confirm that did indeed fix the problem so I could actually start tuning the car. Upon reading this thread that of course never happened... I am really wondering why you would take your car to another shop when it wasn't fixed (You hadn't replaced the alternator yet) and have them tune it anyway (especially after I spent 5 hours for free dynoing/tuning/diaging your Camaro). Your car isn't right, and when/if you fix the issues with your car the tune is going to be off (Again) which isn't fair to put back on Brian since he spent forever getting it run OK "As-is". I could have spent 3 more hours band-aid tuning your car to get results (IE: Have it run "Right"), but that doesn't fix your actual problem. It will do so temporarily but then as soon as you replace your alternator your tune is off and you have to start all over again. Here is a back to back pull no change in tune to show the voltage effect on air/fuels..... http://ipsmotorsports.net/pictures/ebay/Eric There was no point in continuing to tune your car with it varying so wildly with no changes on my part. Bottom line: Your car still isn't right (Unless Brian fixed something while it was there) and you need to get those issues resolved instead of trying to "Fix" them with a tune. Eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wnaplay1647545503 Posted May 19, 2009 Report Share Posted May 19, 2009 I hope this stays civil because it would be interesting to hear everyones side on this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbotrio Posted May 19, 2009 Report Share Posted May 19, 2009 I hope this stays civil because it would be interesting to hear everyones side on this. Oh, it will. Eric is obviously pretty frustrated that he spent so much time trying to help diagnose the car's issues instead of doing any tuning (What it was here for in the first place) only to have him take it elsewhere. I don't blame him honestly. Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wnaplay1647545503 Posted May 19, 2009 Report Share Posted May 19, 2009 (edited) Oh, it will. Eric is obviously pretty frustrated that he spent so much time trying to help diagnose the car's issues instead of doing any tuning (What it was here for in the first place) only to have him take it elsewhere. I don't blame him honestly. Jeff Nor would I. I have been in similar situations in the past. I can understand if the owner of the car felt he wasnt making much progress and decided to take it somewhere else. I hope if it is now tuned that it is acknowledged the work your shop did was needed and justified. I like this thread because I dont know that much about tunes and what affects them. This is a good thread to follow. Thats why I hope it stays civil and everyone explains their side so I can learn from the responses. Edited May 19, 2009 by wnaplay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DTM Brian Posted May 19, 2009 Report Share Posted May 19, 2009 I have been on the phone with both Jeff and Eric. Lets just say everything is ok. In regards to the Wideband readings on IPS dyno. The problem was not the car nor the wideband on their dyno. The problem was where the exhaust was being sampled. I had the same problems when I sampled from the cut out. A/F's were a mess because of the exhaust gas being contaminated with air coming into the collector. Remember how you use water from sink to drain a waterbed? Same situation here. My exhaust readings from the graph I posted came from the tailpipe with the cut outs closed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Removed Posted May 19, 2009 Report Share Posted May 19, 2009 wow...you go brian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbotrio Posted May 19, 2009 Report Share Posted May 19, 2009 (edited) In talking with Brian and Eric that does explain the lean spikes but it doesn't explain the loss of voltage at all. We measured it with a meter in addition to logging voltage in HP Tuners. The reason we didn't do any further pulls had nothing to do with rich/lean conditions (Which can easily be tuned out) but everything to do with a bad voltage issue that pointed directly at an alternator problem. Jeff Edited May 19, 2009 by Turbotrio Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricZ06 Posted May 19, 2009 Report Share Posted May 19, 2009 The problem was where the exhaust was being sampled. I had the same problems when I sampled from the cut out. A/F's were a mess because of the exhaust gas being contaminated with air coming into the collector. The biggest thing that threw me off (when the cut-outs were open) is the stock O2's were corresponding to our wideband (meaning the O2 placement is not correct and they are too close to the cutout which gives false readings even to the ECU, which still should be fixed) Regardless, I would have liked if the voltage issue could have been fixed so I could have actually dyno-tuned the car in full working condition instead of having to "Tune around" it. Eric P.S. Good talking to you today Brian! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DTM Brian Posted May 19, 2009 Report Share Posted May 19, 2009 The biggest thing that threw me off (when the cut-outs were open) is the stock O2's were corresponding to our wideband (meaning the O2 placement is not correct and they are too close to the cutout which gives false readings even to the ECU, which still should be fixed) Regardless, I would have liked if the voltage issue could have been fixed so I could have actually dyno-tuned the car in full working condition instead of having to "Tune around" it. Eric P.S. Good talking to you today Brian! Same to you sir. I must say I did not see these voltages issues with the scanner. It does not mean that you did not have problems with it. I agree that the cut outs should be placed farther away from the narrow band sensors. Enough Car talk. Eric, Lets go grab some wings sometime and share our tuning secrets with one another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Main3s Posted May 20, 2009 Report Share Posted May 20, 2009 Well regardless it sounds like both parties did their best on the car and the customer seems happy. Good tune Brian! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sprayin77 Posted May 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 20, 2009 I am willing to componsate you for your time eric. just let me know what it is you are wanting for my tuning disaster. Nothing against ips or anyone. I have never in my life had a car dyno tuned before so i dont know what is involved and i dont feel that it was explained the greatest either. but when i have to bring the car back for 2 totally different problems i became a little worried if there really was something wrong. Just like i said on the phone with you today (if a doctor tells you that you have a week to live you are going to want another opinion) So i wanted another opinion on my car. I did a simple heads and cam swap did not touch anything else on the car other than headers and wires, 1.8 rockers( I called texas speed and they said they are compatible with my cam) So i apologize for stepping on anyones toes here. i just wanted my car tuned. It seemed like it wasnt going to happen because i totally messed up my car while installing everything. I never told brian i took my car there 2 times i told him a brief story to see if he would find the same as you guys did. So sorry brian as well. I would have told you the whole story on the ips thing but i wanted the other opinion. eric i apologize if i have frustrated you in any way. So from me im sorry to both parties but i had to do what i had to do. Just call me tomorrow and let me know what i owe you for your efforts eric. I did ask you before i left the last time ( so there is no way you can even tune my car) you said no not until the voltage problem is fixed. So at that point i deemed my installs a complete failure. so like i said i wanted another opinion. I appreciate all your efforts as well eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wnaplay1647545503 Posted May 20, 2009 Report Share Posted May 20, 2009 I am willing to componsate you for your time eric. just let me know what it is you are wanting for my tuning disaster. Nothing against ips or anyone. I have never in my life had a car dyno tuned before so i dont know what is involved. but when i have to bring the car back for 2 totally different problems i became a little worried if there really was something wrong. Just like i said on the phone with you today (if a doctor tells you that you have a week to live you are going to want another opinion) So i wanted another opinion on my car. I did a simple heads and cam swap did not touch anything else on the car other than headers and wires, 1.8 rockers( I called texas speed and they said they are compatible with my cam) So i apologize for stepping on anyones toes here. i just wanted my car tuned. It seemed like it wasnt going to happen because i totally messed up my car while installing everything. I never told brian i took my car there 2 times i told him a brief story to see if he would find the same as you guys did. So sorry brian as well. I would have told you the whole story on the ips thing but i wanted the other opinion. eric i apologize if i have frustrated you in any way. So from me im sorry to both parties but i had to do what i had to do. Just call me tomorrow and let me know what i owe you for your efforts eric. Exactly what I would have done if I was doubting someone working on y car. say nothing and see if they came up with the same answer. Did in fact Brian have the same issues with the alternator possibly going out and have issues with tuning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sprayin77 Posted May 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted May 20, 2009 no he did not Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricZ06 Posted May 20, 2009 Report Share Posted May 20, 2009 I have logs of the car, running, at 11.5-v12.1v in our shop... Now whether or not the car somehow "fixed" itself (?) on the way over to Brian's I will not know. I guess the "problem" was that I want cars to be in perfect running condition before I tune them. (Which isn't a shot at the owner, it's not his fault the alternator has issues, it's quite common on F-Body's, you should ask a few on the board ) On another note on your car, you really need to fix your Oxygen Sensor placement because when you drive your car with the cutouts open your ECU thinks your car is lean and will add fuel, even at Wide Open Throttle. (GM's will learn fuel trims at WOT) I understand your point when you say you want another opinion with your car (ie like a Doctor) but posting online that I said your car is un-tunable doesn't look good on me, especially when that was never said. Had you fixed your voltage issue and brought the car back, you would be in the exact place you are today with a car that is 100%, not 98%.... (not a shot at your Brian you did a great job with the car) So I will leave it there and I hope everything goes will for you in the future with your Camaro. Eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbotrio Posted May 20, 2009 Report Share Posted May 20, 2009 My last comment and IMO the most important thing to consider in all of this. What does Eric have to gain by telling a customer their car has a problem and he is not comfortable tuning it? We were not doing any of the work. We were not selling him any parts. We have ZERO to gain by telling him to correct an issue if there is no issue. All we risk is him not coming back or going elsewhere and us wasting 5 hours of diagnosing a car for free. The situation would be 1000% different if we were trying pitch him WE needed to do all this stuff and charge him all this money just to be able to tune it. If that was the case I would have pulled the car to get a 2nd opinion if I was him all day long. If Eric didn't care about the issues he just would have "Tuned around" them and sent it out the door and would not said a word. Then, when the alternator completely fails and gets replaced we get to re-tune it again once a new one is installed. That helps us by charging him again but doesn't help him at all (Short or long-term). I guess that is just not how we do things. Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jizzle Juice Posted May 20, 2009 Report Share Posted May 20, 2009 Looks like you got it tuned!!! good work guy! Good job to dynotune and IPS for keeping it civil! We needmore of this around here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nitrousbird Posted May 22, 2009 Report Share Posted May 22, 2009 I think this thread shows the customer service Brian is willing to do for those that go to him. I know that when it comes time to fully tune my car, Brian is the only one I am taking it to. He will treat your car like it is his own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbotrio Posted May 22, 2009 Report Share Posted May 22, 2009 (edited) I know that when it comes time to fully tune my car, Brian is the only one I am taking it to. When will that be just out of curiosity? I have Bogarts going on a TBSS that is getting antsy waiting to wear you out PS -- Since it was a little OT I just sent you a PM. Edited May 22, 2009 by Turbotrio Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam1647545489 Posted May 22, 2009 Report Share Posted May 22, 2009 Oh and nice work Brian. Hope everything is goin better for your mom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DTM Brian Posted May 22, 2009 Report Share Posted May 22, 2009 Oh and nice work Brian. Hope everything is goin better for your mom. Thank you Mr. Sam. She should be going into surgery any time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbotrio Posted May 22, 2009 Report Share Posted May 22, 2009 Thank you Mr. Sam. She should be going into surgery any time. I obviously missed something (About the surgery) but I hope it isn't anything serious. She will be in my prayers tonight Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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