RedRocket1647545505 Posted July 1, 2009 Report Share Posted July 1, 2009 Before you start telling me about people killing others in a carjacking, robbery etc, think about this. I was born and raised in the city with the highest crime rate in the WORLD. #1 in carjacking, and believe me, carrying a gun on you is not going to save you. They shoot first, and then take what they want. Where cars need to be equipped with anti hijacking equipment, aka flamethrowers and bullit proof glass. Thats the funny thing about being robbed, its unexpected. In a bar, the best thing that can come from someone carrying a gun, is to prevent multiple killings, which is good, but honestly, how often does that happen? The chances of a bar fight breaking out, and then someone trying to prove his manhood pulls out a gun is a lot more likely. Redwings example was a comical example, so I'm glad you found it laughable. But then you try to say that there are people who have no motive to kill, but then laugh at the fact that someone will kill based on emotion or no logical reason...hmmm...contradicting. I never said I had a problem with sober people being able to carry. But its a fucking bar, and people drink and get drunk at a bar. Last thing I want to see is a gun on some drunk bastard at the bar. So no, better luck to you chief I've been sober at a bar 10x more than I've been drunk because I'm usually the DD. I shouldn't be allowed to carry? Your drinking/driving argument is weak. Stupid people will do stupid things, regardless of the law. There're laws against people drinking and driving, but that shit happens all the damn time. By your logic, people shouldn't be allowed to drink at home because they have access to their own keys and might drive. How much fucking sense does that make? At some point you've got to draw the line on implementing useless laws and focus on the consequences as a deterrent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRed05 Posted July 1, 2009 Report Share Posted July 1, 2009 I have a pair, but I actually like to be in charge of the safety of my family and I. I don't plan for a cop to be 10 feet from me the first time a guy tries to come in gunsablazin'. And I agree with you, but I know you dont take your family out to a bar. And again, chances of the bar being the scene of robbery < it being the scene of a bar fight. I think its all gravy to carry, but not in a straight up bar. I know alot of you might disagree, but thats my .02. I can just imagine an argument going from pushing to shoving to punching to anyone within firing range getting wasted. I dont care if you have had 1 or 15 beers, i dont think you should carry or drive. Everyone reacts differently to alcohol. I may be wrong, but its just my opinion. You are absolutely right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRed05 Posted July 1, 2009 Report Share Posted July 1, 2009 I've been sober at a bar 10x more than I've been drunk because I'm usually the DD. I shouldn't be allowed to carry? Your drinking/driving argument is weak. Stupid people will do stupid things, regardless of the law. There're laws against people drinking and driving, but that shit happens all the damn time. By your logic, people shouldn't be allowed to drink at home because they have access to their own keys and might drive. How much fucking sense does that make? At some point you've got to draw the line on implementing useless laws and focus on the consequences as a deterrent. If you dont drink, then yes, you should be allowed to carry, but people who go to bars and dont drink at all are the exception, not the rule. Right, people break the law all the time. That doesn't make it OK. Consequences as a deterrent is the way to go about a lot of things, but when it comes to things like this, prevention is the best way. The drunk driving example is the one that comes closest to this situation that I can think of. The gun is in youre control when you are drunk, and you are in a public place where conflicts can happen and others can get hurt. Same with drunk driving. You are in control of the vehicle, on public roads, where conflicts can happen and others can get hurt. Both are considered weapons, and should be operated with an unaltered state of mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerTurbo Posted July 1, 2009 Report Share Posted July 1, 2009 Oh man, here we go, time to have fun. Before you start telling me about people killing others in a carjacking, robbery etc, think about this. I was born and raised in the city with the highest crime rate in the WORLD. #1 in carjacking, and believe me, carrying a gun on you is not going to save you. Aaaaand the place you grew up would be? No one said the gun would guarantee safety. It does however put you closer to equal playing ground. They shoot first, and then take what they want. Wait wait wait, I thought you said: In the event that a bar gets robbed, give them what they want and no one gets hurt. hmmm...contradicting. Indeed! Thats the funny thing about being robbed, its unexpected. Take responsibility for your own (lack of) situational awareness and help to minimize that possibility. In a bar, the best thing that can come from someone carrying a gun, is to prevent multiple killings, which is good, but honestly, how often does that happen? So there has to be X amount of killings before you justify someones ability to defend themselves should those killings take place??? Do you work for the Government or something? The chances of a bar fight breaking out, and then someone trying to prove his manhood pulls out a gun is a lot more likely. For gods sake, can you keep away from the projection and stick to facts and reputable statistics? But then you try to say that there are people who have no motive to kill, but then laugh at the fact that someone will kill based on emotion or no logical reason...hmmm...contradicting. I laughed somewhere in my post? Please point that out. Or are you just trying to point the attention somewhere else to keep the focus off the fact you have no idea what you're talking about? I said I haven't read where someone killed another person at a bar because they disagreed on the damn Hockey team on TV, which you are just soooo sure will happen now. That has no correlation to my example of the guy who shot up and killed MANY people for no appearent reason. That was a counter example to your "just give them what they want and you wont be hurt" statement. Your lack of reasoning is not a contradiction on my part. But its a fucking bar, and people drink and get drunk at a bar. Last thing I want to see is a gun on some drunk bastard at the bar. Odd, I've never been drunk at a bar. I've had beers at bars many times, but never drunk. It's not an absolute that every person who drinks gets drunk, regardless of location. Try again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRocket1647545505 Posted July 1, 2009 Report Share Posted July 1, 2009 People were screaming that states implementing CCW laws would cause 'old west' style shootouts on a daily basis, but that's yet to happen. Same goes for allowing CCWing in bars. It's just another place, which happens to sell alcohol. As I've said before, you'll find that MOST CCWers are some of the most non-confrontational people you will ever meet. They don't just go around picking fights, they don't go around getting shit-faced drunk while carrying, and going to a bar while carrying won't change a damn thing about how they act. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowridns1020 Posted July 2, 2009 Report Share Posted July 2, 2009 People were screaming that states implementing CCW laws would cause 'old west' style shootouts on a daily basis, but that's yet to happen. Same goes for allowing CCWing in bars. It's just another place, which happens to sell alcohol. As I've said before, you'll find that MOST CCWers are some of the most non-confrontational people you will ever meet. They don't just go around picking fights, they don't go around getting shit-faced drunk while carrying, and going to a bar while carrying won't change a damn thing about how they act. You are the biggest alcoholic I know, watch out in the future for this guy at the bar :bangbang: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caseyctsv Posted July 2, 2009 Report Share Posted July 2, 2009 LOL at people trying to make an arguement it should be OK to carry a gun in a bar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRocket1647545505 Posted July 2, 2009 Report Share Posted July 2, 2009 LOL at people trying to make an arguement it should be OK to carry a gun in a bar. LOL @ the sheeple who still don't get it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caseyctsv Posted July 2, 2009 Report Share Posted July 2, 2009 LOL @ the sheeple who still don't get it. You're right I don't get it. Rather than trying to determine if someone is licensed to carry or not it is just easier to say they are not allowed in bars. Given the 0 tolerance on blood alcohol this should be a no brainer. How many people in a bar are DD and are not drinking anything? Just playing the odds here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRocket1647545505 Posted July 2, 2009 Report Share Posted July 2, 2009 You're right I don't get it. Rather than trying to determine if someone is drunk or not, it is just easier to say they (people) are not allowed in bars. Given the minimal tolerance on blood alcohol while driving, this should be a no brainer. How many people in a bar are DD and are not drinking anything? Just playing the odds here. fixed this for you. Ban bars. That'll solve the problem as well, amirite? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
verse Posted July 2, 2009 Report Share Posted July 2, 2009 fixed this for you. Ban bars. That'll solve the problem as well, amirite? Sounds as logical as the sheeple's arguements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caseyctsv Posted July 2, 2009 Report Share Posted July 2, 2009 fixed this for you. Ban bars. That'll solve the problem as well, amirite? Awesome argument there. To be clear I hate over regulation. I just think the pursuit of making guns legal in bars is a stupid waste of time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRocket1647545505 Posted July 2, 2009 Report Share Posted July 2, 2009 Sounds as logical as the sheeple's arguements. Awesome argument there. To be clear I hate over regulation. I just think the pursuit of making guns legal in bars is a stupid waste of time. That's the point I'm trying to make. As I stated earlier, dumb people will be dumb, laws be damned. Basically, I feel that if I'm responsible enough to go to a bar and NOT drink, so that I can drive home, then I'm responsible enough to go to a bar, NOT drink, and CCW whilst doing so. I fail to see the difference between the two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRocket1647545505 Posted July 2, 2009 Report Share Posted July 2, 2009 p.s., Casey, this isn't meant to be a personal attack; I just love gun debates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted July 2, 2009 Report Share Posted July 2, 2009 I just look at it like this Austin, if people are allowed carrying in a bar something sometime is going to happen, and it will make the gun grabbers right. They will then say that people shouldn't be allowed to carry, at the VERY least you and I will lose the right to carry in a bar again. To me it isn't worth being able to carry in a bar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRocket1647545505 Posted July 2, 2009 Report Share Posted July 2, 2009 I just look at it like this Austin, if people are allowed carrying in a bar something sometime is going to happen, and it will make the gun grabbers right. They will then say that people shouldn't be allowed to carry, at the VERY least you and I will lose the right to carry in a bar again. To me it isn't worth being able to carry in a bar. noted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hal Posted July 2, 2009 Report Share Posted July 2, 2009 If someone is stupid enough to go drink at a bar while carrying, they will probably do it whether it's legal to carry in the bar or not. I guess people are cool breaking one law but not another. I can think of a situation a few months ago where a sober person with CCW could have stopped something. A few guys got drunk and decided to beat another guy to death outside of a bar (may have been a strip club). They then proceeded to go to another bar and tried to beat a few other guys and girls. They could have easily killed someone else if the cops hadn't been so close. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evan9381 Posted July 2, 2009 Report Share Posted July 2, 2009 You're right I don't get it. Rather than trying to determine if someone is licensed to carry or not it is just easier to say they are not allowed in bars. Given the 0 tolerance on blood alcohol this should be a no brainer. How many people in a bar are DD and are not drinking anything? Just playing the odds here. i have been to bars many times and not drink. and its not even just "bars", in ohio, you cant carry anywhere alcohol is served. i/e - chipotle. i cant carry there, bw3's, thurmans, this little sushi spot i like to go to, among many other places. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRed05 Posted July 2, 2009 Report Share Posted July 2, 2009 i have been to bars many times and not drink. and its not even just "bars", in ohio, you cant carry anywhere alcohol is served. i/e - chipotle. i cant carry there, bw3's, thurmans, this little sushi spot i like to go to, among many other places. I dont understand why its such a big deal to have your firearm with you when eating your burrito and chicken wings. Cause we all know how crazy dangerous those places are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerTurbo Posted July 2, 2009 Report Share Posted July 2, 2009 I dont understand why its such a big deal to have your firearm with you when eating your burrito and chicken wings. Cause we all know how crazy dangerous those places are. Have you taken the responsibility of researching Susanna Hupp and what she and her parents went through? Your ignorance is blinding. The restaurant they were eating at that day was your picture perfect place where one would least expect anything "crazy dangerous" to take place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LJ Posted July 2, 2009 Report Share Posted July 2, 2009 To everyone making the argument for NOT being allowed to carry in a bar, you realize this makes Arizona the 39th state in the U.S. to allow this? That means that 78% of the states in the union allow bar carry. Tell me, where are these shootouts you speak of? Surely if what you say is true, with 78% of the states allowing this, the evidence should be right there for you to gather. Until then, STFU with your stupid rhetoric. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LJ Posted July 2, 2009 Report Share Posted July 2, 2009 I dont understand why its such a big deal to have your firearm with you when eating your burrito and chicken wings. Cause we all know how crazy dangerous those places are. Bad example... I assume you weren't here when the crazy opened fire at the BW3's in Gahanna a few years ago? Or how about the shooting at the Al Rosa a few years ago? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Hal Posted July 2, 2009 Report Share Posted July 2, 2009 Bad example... I assume you weren't here when the crazy opened fire at the BW3's in Gahanna a few years ago? Or how about the shooting at the Al Rosa a few years ago? Those never happened, guns are bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
verse Posted July 2, 2009 Report Share Posted July 2, 2009 crazy opened fire People don't kill people, guns kill people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LJ Posted July 2, 2009 Report Share Posted July 2, 2009 Susanna Hupp "How a politician stands on the Second Amendment tells you how he or she views you as an individual... as a trustworthy and productive citizen, or as part of an unruly crowd that needs to be lorded, controlled, supervised, and taken care of." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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