Why we need health care reform

[thorne]

EXACTLY! Its capitalism at its best, the company is only doing what the company does. Make money and by doing so they're going to make the smartest BUSINESS decision possible to help itself stay profitable.

 

The real issue here is how to take capitalism out of healthcare so there's no combating issues of wether or not the healthcare provided is both good for the company and good for the patient. Goodluck.

 

Oh and Tim, you cant MAKE people do those things. Those are thing's people SHOULD do regardless but dont simply because its easier not to.

 

If Basic healthcare such as seeing a dr for checkups and colds and shit before they get out of hand was free it would make the bigger things happen far less. Though some things you can't avoid . Early detection of other things greatly reduces the cost and surviablity of the patient.

 

 

 

 

BTW I used to be a DIE HARD REPUBLICAN a few years ago and I thought it was stupid to pay for other peoples shit and how I thought I was always higher and mighterier because I paid for all my shit and now I see the flaw in that logic.

 

 

The insurance companies suck the dick of the drug makers who suck the dick of the dr's. then they turn around and rape the patient with no reacharound

[thorne]

There ya go.

 

I just finished watching 'Sicko' last week, one of Michael Moore's documentarys. If you get a chance, spend the 2 hours watching it. It looks at England, Canada, France and Cuba's universal healthcare systems, as well as our current system. One chick pays $120, twice a month, for her inhaler here. The same inhaler(very similar) was 5 cents US when she went to Cuba, saw a physician there, got a prescription, and had it filled. She, BTW, was a volunteer during 911 that developed lung related issues from all the dust at ground zero while she was volunteering, and our government wont cover her healthcare costs. They talk to doctors as well as patients in all 4 countries. It was a real eye opener. Granted, it is steered toward showing how bad our current healthcare system is, but damn, I walked away from it pretty pissed off at how healthcare in the US seems to revolve around capitalism and not what's best for the patient. It is on TMC right now, but I think its available at video stores too. Its done in 2007.

 

As much as I detest Michael moore I'm going to have to watch this. BTW where 1 of the only firsth world countries with out unveirsal healthcare.

[unfunnyryan]

And you have precisely 10 RIGHTS in this country.

 

 

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

 

10+3 actually, but its not like the declaration of independence did anything for anyone.

[Drewhop]

Every person I hear bitch about not wanting to pay for someone else is 1 major incident away from changing there tone.

 

Truth.

[thorne]

Ok guys who spec americas healthcare is the best ready for some numbers your not going to like. Maybe you should do a little research before you make statements like that be cause we are not #1. But feel good in knowing we pay almost 2 grand more per person then any other country.

 

 

 

 

 

FROM WIKI

 

The United States is the only wealthy, industrialized nation that does not have a universal health care system.[1] The government directly covers 27.8% of the population[17] through health care programs for the elderly, disabled, military service families and veterans, children, and some of the poor, through Medicare, Medicaid, SCHIP, and TRICARE.[18][19] Federal law ensures public access to emergency services regardless of ability to pay.[20] However, this unfunded mandate has contributed to a health care safety net that some analyses say is increasingly strained.[21] Certain types of medical spending and particularly health insurance benefit from significant tax subsidies; in particular, employer-sponsored health insurance is a non-taxable benefit. In all, government spending accounted for 45.1% of total health spending in the U.S. in 2005.[22] Current estimates put U.S. health care spending at more than 15% of GDP, a greater portion than in any other United Nations member state except for East Timor (Timor-Leste).[23]

 

http://www.jhsph.edu/publichealthnews/press_releases/2005/anderson_healthspending.html

 

http://allcountries.org/health/usa_health_care_2008_nyt.html

 

 

 

Rank by WHO

1 France

2 Italy

3 San Marino

4 Andorra

5 Malta

6 Singapore

7 Spain

8 Oman

9 Austria

10 Japan

11 Norway

12 Portugal

13 Monaco

14 Greece

15 Iceland

16 Luxembourg

17 Netherlands

18 United Kingdom

19 Ireland

20 Switzerland

21 Belgium

22 Colombia

23 Sweden

24 Cyprus

25 Germany

26 Saudi Arabia

27 United Arab Emirates

28 Israel

29 Morocco

30 Canada

31 Finland

32 Australia

33 Chile

34 Denmark

35 Dominica

36 Costa Rica

37 United States of America

38 Slovenia

39 Cuba

[thorne]

Your fucking stoned. Hospitals will not make payment arrangements when you start talking about procedures that cost 10 of thosands of dollars.

 

I love how you quickly take the high and mighty route. I hope you have something major come up that does not kill you but you see what its like to relize Fuck man there is no way I could afford this.

 

With no insurance I could not afford my medical bills. I'm sorry you think I'm not managing my money right but your full of shit.

 

Were the only major country who does not have a universal healthcare and we don't have the best so WTF IS WRONG???

 

How about you take your smug and shove it up your ass sideways for me.

 

i don't see the problem. health insurance company raping you? either switch companies or do without the insurance all together. there isn't any reason someone shouldn't be able to cover basic yearly medical expenses on there own, considering how much everyone pays to an insurance company each year(you really think your getting your as much treatment as the money your putting in? if so, maybe you should be more concerned about your own safety in every day life). you(and this lady) can also work out deals with the hospital to make monthly payments on a surgery or anything major like this.

 

speaking of this lady, was she or her doctor just being stubborn? the alternative treatment was put on the table by the insurance company, and, the way the article reads, they refused it? or, as i mentioned, they didn't hash out a payment plan so she could cover the original treatment her self? if she couldn't afford it, then she must have screwed up somewhere in life(not saying i'm perfect by any means, but it's the truth). it's so much better living life paralyzed with a tumor in your head knowing that you didn't give in to evil corporate america i guess.

 

insurance companies aren't the problem, it's all the ignorant consumers who don't know how to manage money. if they did know how, they would be able to save some for an emergency rather than relying on an insurance company to store the money for them. universal healthcare isn't free, your paying the same amount no matter how few or how many times you go to the hospital. live life to only make yourself happy(without harming others), screw this "greater good" bullshit. if being a lard ass makes me happy, then so be it. this is my life(as well as my medical bills for my unhealthy lifestyle), not yours.

[thorne]

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

 

Life : HEALTH CARE

Hapiness sure the hell anit spending Thosands upon thosands per year for basic maintece.

[LJ]

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

 

Life : HEALTH CARE

Hapiness sure the hell anit spending Thosands upon thosands per year for basic maintece.

 

And there is health care in this country and the gov't is not stopping you from getting it.

 

Anyways, my gf's dad is a Political Cartoonist, and here is my absolute favorite cartoon of his

 

http://c1.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/81/l_2a9f3927206a4a59b7d2498951646a04.jpg

[Scotty2Hotty]

I'm against the .gov intervention, but when there's been talks of Veterans possibly being forced to private health care, that's some complete bullshit. Granted, there are people that pull a fast one on government programs all the time, but a legit combat related injury, should be 100% covered. A soldier/marine that loses his leg to an RPG, while serving, shouldn't have the burden of paying for it.

 

-Tim you nailed it +REP.

[thorne]

No insult to your gfs dad but he should do some fact checking before claiming we have the best or maybe he should say we have the most expensive as that is would be accurate.

 

Actually if healthcare is a right then it should be a little more uniform. I do like how no one wants to adress that were the only major country with out it.

 

And there is health care in this country and the gov't is not stopping you from getting it.

 

Anyways, my gf's dad is a Political Cartoonist, and here is my absolute favorite cartoon of his

 

http://c1.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/81/l_2a9f3927206a4a59b7d2498951646a04.jpg

[Guest tbutera2112]

i hope health care stays the same.....if obama has his way, my mom will lose her job selling insurance and we will lose this house

[thorne]

I'm against the .gov intervention, but when there's been talks of Veterans possibly being forced to private health care, that's some complete bullshit. Granted, there are people that pull a fast one on government programs all the time, but a legit combat related injury, should be 100% covered. A soldier/marine that loses his leg to an RPG, while serving, shouldn't have the burden of paying for it.

 

-Tim you nailed it +REP.

 

I feel if you risked your life for this country hurt or not hurt your healthcare should be taken care of from that point forward.

 

 

But stop for 10 seconds and think about this. Many of these hospitals never seen the money anyways since MEdical bills is the #1 cause for bankrupcy.

 

A good chunk of the people who's health got out of control got there because they could not afford the basic treatments everyone should have.

 

What I support is I can keep my private insurnace and they are forced due to the goverments competition to stop fucking denying claims for legitimate shit.

[Brandon]

Tort reform... I think that would instantly help the system.

[LJ]

No insult to your gfs dad but he should do some fact checking before claiming we have the best or maybe he should say we have the most expensive as that is would be accurate.

 

Actually if healthcare is a right then it should be a little more uniform. I do like how no one wants to adress that were the only major country with out it.

 

Actually he is right. Maybe you should do some more research before calling out someone.

 

Obesity has increased rapidly in the United States, to the point where, at present, more than half the adult population is overweight and 25 percent is obese. A recent study estimates that the average obese person incurs annual medical expenses that exceed by 42 percent the average annual medical expenses of the non-obese; the aggregate excess cost is almost $150 billion a year. Average expense is potentially misleading because of the shorter lifespan of unhealthy people. However, I believe that except in cases of extreme obesity, the effect on lifespan is less than the effect in creating medically treatable conditions such as diabetes, joint problems, complications from surgery, and cardiovascular disease.

 

The economist Tomas Philipson and I have written about the economics of obesity. We have pointed out that the decline in the price of fatty foods, along with the rise in the opportunity cost of physical activity (work is more sedentary than it used to be, so one has to invest extra time to get exercise, and television and video games have increased the utility that people derive from sedentary leisure pursuits), explains the dramatic long-term increase in the percentage of Americans who are seriously overweight.

 

It might seem that if people derive greater utility from consuming fatty foods in large quantity than the costs in illness and medical care, the increase in obesity actually is optimal from an economic standpoint. But there are three reasons to doubt this. The first is that the obese externalize part and probably most of the excess medical costs that their condition imposes, because health insurers (including Medicare) generally do not discriminate on the basis of weight. The second reason to doubt that we have the optimal amount of obesity is that high and rising aggregate health costs, because financed to a large extent by government, are contributing to the serious fiscal problems of the United States: the United States has a soaring national debt that may have very grave long-term consequences for America's prosperity. Obesity thus has potential macroeconomic significance.

 

One way to separate health care from personal behavior is to consider survival from serious diseases, such as various cancers and cardiovascular diseases. In my post on health care on June 7 of this year I referred to a study published in Lancet in 2007 that compares five-year cancer survival rates for the US, the United Kingdom, and the European Union as a whole. The study examines early diagnosis, early treatment, and access to the best drugs, and finds that the United States does very well on all three criteria. As a result, five-year cancer survival rates are much better in the US: they are about 65% for both men and women, whereas they are much lower in these other countries, especially for men.

 

http://www.becker-posner-blog.com/

[HAOLE]

If Basic healthcare such as seeing a dr for checkups and colds and shit before they get out of hand was free it would make the bigger things happen far less.

 

 

Since you want things to be free, I want you to come to my office and put in your camera system at no cost to me.

 

Why should health care be free? How many people here spend $400+ per month on a car payment but cry like a baby if they have to spend some money on health care. The problem in America is priorities. Americans want to have the big screen tv's, 22" rims, new Escalades, and big houses they cant afford, then cry that they cant afford health care.

 

I get people in my office that cry the poor mouth, they have been to the MD had the drugs, been to surgery, had the PT, then cry if I tell them it will cost them $500 to get better. I felt sorry for people at one time and would cut them a break until I realized the had plenty of money for the things in life that they wanted to pay for.

[thorne]

We don't have the #1 healthcare we are #37 as ranked by the WHO.

 

People being fat don't help I'm just saying he is not right about us being the BEST.

[HAOLE]

Tort reform... I think that would instantly help the system.

 

No it wont. If the MD quit killing people we wont have as many tort cases. Reforming the tort system is like cutting off your leg because toe hurts.

[thorne]

Since you want things to be free, I want you to come to my office and put in your camera system at no cost to me.

 

Why should health care be free? How many people here spend $400+ per month on a car payment but cry like a baby if they have to spend some money on health care. The problem in America is priorities. Americans want to have the big screen tv's, 22" rims, new Escalades, and big houses they cant afford, then cry that they cant afford health care.

 

I get people in my office that cry the poor mouth, they have been to the MD had the drugs, been to surgery, had the PT, then cry if I tell them it will cost them $500 to get better. I felt sorry for people at one time and would cut them a break until I realized the had plenty of money for the things in life that they wanted to pay for.

 

I will put a camera system in for you at a reasonable price that undercuts all of my competition.

 

Our healthcare there is no real competition so I'm stuck paying what they want. BTW I do have a 400 car payment it I spend well over that every single month on healthcare.

 

So what kinda ration should we have on health care 50% of your income what? Hard to have happiness when you have no money to do shit but pay for healthcare.

 

I'm not speaking on this as I can't afford my health care. I pay for it and live my life but I keep watching it widdle more and more of my money away year by year.

[LJ]

We don't have the #1 healthcare we are #37 as ranked by the WHO.

 

People being fat don't help I'm just saying he is not right about us being the BEST.

 

Yes he is.

 

#1 WHO stopped doing the rankings in 2000

#2 They include uninsured who don't go to the Dr. until it's too late, dragging the ranking down

 

#3

five-year cancer survival rates for the US, the United Kingdom, and the European Union as a whole. The study examines early diagnosis, early treatment, and access to the best drugs, and finds that the United States does very well on all three criteria. As a result, five-year cancer survival rates are much better in the US: they are about 65% for both men and women, whereas they are much lower in these other countries, especially for men.

 

#4 you need to read the articles on the links I posted

[thorne]

No it wont. If the MD quit killing people we wont have as many tort cases. Reforming the tort system is like cutting off your leg because toe hurts.

 

It's another one of those Catch 22's

 

At what point should there be a cap on tort ? I mean if you get the wrong leg cut off what is that worth ?

 

 

Healthcare system is a fail and where are the only one of the major countries who does not have a universal system in one way or another.

 

If you think your not already paying for people's healthcare think about it like this. People have half assed healthcare atm instead of getting maintence done they have to wait till shits worse and its emergency room level or they go to the ER because its the only way they can afford the sneeze and sinus infection they have.

 

 

Your paying already why not change it around and make it so the maintence is covered more and we keep people healthier from the start

[HAOLE]

If you realy want to fix healthcare eliminate the health insurance plans for everyone. That will reduce the fees down to what you pay at the vets office for the same procedure. I will give you an example. My son stuck a peanut up his nose when he was about 1 year old. $2500 later the nut was removed. I ask a friend of mine that is a vet how much it would be to remove the same nut from my dogs nose.... $75-150! The difference is artificial inflation of the third party carriers. Edited August 5, 2009 by HAOLE

[LJ]

If you realy want to fix healthcare eliminate the health insurance plans for everyone. That will reduce the fees down to what you pay at the vets office for the same procedure. I will give you an example. My son stuck a peanut up his nose when he was about 1 year old. $2500 later the nut was removed. I ask a friend of min that is a vet how much it would be to remove the same nut from my dogs nose.... $75-150! The difference is artificial inflation of the third party carriers.

 

Vet's also have the longest payoff period for student loans out of the 3 major professional degrees (J.D., M.D. DVM). The average cost for a Vet Student at OSU is ~$200,000 (in state)

[Guest tbutera2112]

If you realy want to fix healthcare eliminate the health insurance plans for everyone. That will reduce the fees down to what you pay at the vets office for the same procedure. I will give you an example. My son stuck a peanut up his nose when he was about 1 year old. $2500 later the nut was removed. I ask a friend of min that is a vet how much it would be to remove the same nut from my dogs nose.... $75-150! The difference is artificial inflation of the third party carriers.

 

lol take your kids to the vet next time!

[dragknee66]

People being fat don't help .

 

Ya.. Ohio makes me sick anymore. Im tired of walking into Chipotle to enojy what I call "a treat" and theres a line full of 400lb people that should be eating celery instead.

 

Things that drive me crazy... obese people and my health care rate thats the SAME as the 400lb S.O.B down the hall.

[Drewhop]

If you realy want to fix healthcare eliminate the health insurance plans for everyone. That will reduce the fees down to what you pay at the vets office for the same procedure. I will give you an example. My son stuck a peanut up his nose when he was about 1 year old. $2500 later the nut was removed. I ask a friend of min that is a vet how much it would be to remove the same nut from my dogs nose.... $75-150! The difference is artificial inflation of the third party carriers.

 

 

I had to quote this for its greatness.

 

Vasectomy=500-1k dollars

Spay or Neuter=50-125

 

Both forms of population control that are not excercised enough