Piss testing for welfare

[Science Abuse]

Just engaged in this lil debate and thought I'd get it going here, too.

 

Earlier this year, Congress began debate over legislation requireing people to pass a piss test before recieving welfare.

An excellent idea, but certainly not a new one:

-In 2000 Michigan became the only state to adopt random and suspicionless drug testing of those applying for public assistance. Three years later, in Marchwinski v. Howard, the federal Court of Appeals for the Sixth Circuit upheld a lower court ruling striking down the program as a violation of the 4th amendment to the U.S. Constitution. (warrantless search… of your bladder)

-A 2003 ruling by a federal appeals court that covers the states of Kentucky, Michigan, Ohio, and Tennessee ruled that states cannot drug test welfare recipients because it’s unconstitutional.

-Congress is currently debating legislation that could cut federal welfare funding to states that do not require drug testing.

-The amended federal welfare bill was approved by the Ways and Means Committee’s Human Resources Subcommittee on Tuesday, March 15th.

-this is something that has been brought up repeatedly, and shot down by the judicial branch repeatedly, the logic being that every US citizen gets the same treatment as every US citizen, regardless of addiction. The last remaining argument is that drug abuse constitutes criminal activity.

Think of it this way:

-Bill is an alcoholic and spends $50/wk of his welfare money on beer. We’re paying for him to get drunk and not work.

-Joe is a smoker who burns through $50/wk in cigarettes. We’re paying him to make his apartment stink.

-Larry is a pothead that spends $50/wk on reefer. We’re paying him to get high and listen to jam bands.

Neither is worse than the other from a fiscal standpoint, one is just less legal.

Taking it a step further, consider their health care costs:

-Bill needs treatment for cirrhosis.

-Joe needs treatment for respiratory problems

-Larry has heart problems from all of the junk food that he eats.

 

Also consider that, statistically, most alcoholics also smoke. Their addictions are money pits that we’re funding through our welfare checks. If we’re going to deny coverage because of one addiction, wouldn’t it make sense to deny coverage for all addictions? Now we see the slippery slope of this issue and why it hasn’t been resolved yet. I’d love to deny smokers and alcoholics coverage because of the fiscal load of their habits, but if I go before congress saying that people who drink and smoke shouldn’t get welfare, I’ll never leave DC alive. If you take the next step and target people who spend too much on thing they don’t need, how long is it before obese over-eaters are denied coverage? “Your body fat index indicates that you can live without food for a week, so we’re cutting your benefits.” Makes fiscal sense, right?

 

Given that the legal aspect is the only valid point to stand on, you could submit that people with criminal records shouldn’t receive welfare. Imagine our crime rate if everyone who’s ever stolen a car stereo suddenly had no foodstamps. People need to eat, and if they have a criminal record they obviously aren’t great at making good life-choices. We don’t have enough cops or jails for that, and we’re already incarcerating and feeding over 3% of our countries population. I’d rather give them food stamps than provide them “3 hots and a cot”, lights, plumbing, on-site medical care, heat, and paid guards 24/7.

 

Point: The solution to a societal problem is never, ever simple. Anyone who claims the root of a problem is simple should be treated the same as some who claims the root of the problem is Bigfoot. Simplicity and Bigfoot are found in the real world with about the same frequency.

[iwashmycar]

ye

[verse]

I could agree with drug testing for welfare, but it also could increase the crime rate slowly b/c these drugies have to rob/steal to get food/money now. Common sense would tell you just to quit doing drugs, but these sort of people don't have that common sense.

[Miller]

Would cut welfare in half. Not a bad idea.

[ImUrOBGYN]

Gotta agree with the above. It's hard to find a "right" answer.

[wagner]

I worked at a carry-out in college and the amount of welfare fraud in Ohio is scary. Some Darwinism might do the mouth breathing knuckle draggers some good.

[Lustalbert]

I am for the drug testing. Not a fan of my tax dollars going to some one elses habbit. If someone wants to spend thier own hard earned money on a bag of smoke, that is thier choice.

As far as increased theft, allow citizens to shoot theives on sight.

Also shoot the lawyers that get sue happy when someone is injured while commiting a crime.

[Science Abuse]

I am for the drug testing. Not a fan of my tax dollars going to some one elses habbit.

 

Don't you smoke and drink? Better hope you don't end up unemployed, cuz we won't wanna cover your habbits.

[Mark1647545493]

I say drug test them....... I could get a small fortune for my clean piss!!!

[AJ]

i also agree that we need to drug test them. in some cases the drugs are why they are on welfair in the first place (i.e. lost there job due to random drug tests, couldn't get a job because of drugs in their system.)

[Ramsey]

everyone receiving goverment assistance should be tested.

 

Too bad coke/crack/meth/herion/x/shrooms/lsd are only in ur system for like 3 days. And they would prolly do the mouth swab and that is only good for like 3 days for pot and can easily be beaten.

[Mensan]

There is a way around this.

 

I am all for forcing people to work while on welfare. In my plan you would have to take a test to make sure you are fit for employment, and this would include many things, including a drug test. Fail any portion and you are put into a category that does not qualify.

[1fast5gp]

I could agree with drug testing for welfare, but it also could increase the crime rate slowly b/c these drugies have to rob/steal to get food/money now. Common sense would tell you just to quit doing drugs, but these sort of people don't have that common sense.

 

Agreed as well. But when they do go to jail, they get the cable TV, 3 meals a day, roof over their head, AC in the summer, heat in the winter, and free medical care.

 

Don't Drug test, get rid of welfare in General. Welfare cause people to become leechs.

 

What if I loose my Job you say? Thats what family and friends are for. To help you get back on your feet. That is the way it should be.

[Science Abuse]

 

I am all for forcing people to work while on welfare.

So.. like, government work but pays less?

The arguement that you'll run into there is; "How can I look for a good job if I'm sweeping streets?"

[Tripleskate]

If you're worried about unfairness between the scenarios, maybe they should try random BAC tests/ however you test for smokers (lung scan or something?) on future candidates.

[mmZ06]

I agree no perfect solution. I think it’s sad that our soldiers are subject to testing and if they don't pass an Article 15 is issued. They not only have to cure the problem but have to work without pay (or a portion of it) while doing so.

From an employer standpoint the system is horrible. I can't tell you how many employees I have seen take advantage of the system. They will work as little as they can to ensure they receive there "benefits" and forge any document they can to keep receiving them. This includes child care, housing assistance, welfare, etc.

I had one employee that was making around 26K/yr and after her benefits she was bringing home more money than a Manager making 40K plus. She had 4 kids that the state was paying child care and insurance for and she was also receiving housing allowance. Throw in the child tax credit and she has it made.

Another employee with a very similar situation was caught forging docs that were supposed to be filled out by the employer. We informed ODJFS of the situation and they just ignored it. They don't care because its job security for them. If the have a decrease in people applying for benefits there job will be on the chopping block.

The system has flaws and most of the people using it and running it lack integrity. Unfortunately there are a lot of people out there that are just lazy and believe everything should be handed to them. It’s called the "entitlement theory". They believe the government should provide for them no matter what because their entitled to it. Sad but true, and its only getting worse. Unemployment benefits have been extended, government healthcare is trying to be pushed through, what’s next?

Let’s just keep giving!

[RedRocket1647545505]

Agreed as well. But when they do go to jail, they get the cable TV, 3 meals a day, roof over their head, AC in the summer, heat in the winter, and free medical care.

 

Don't Drug test, get rid of welfare in General. Welfare cause people to become leechs.

 

What if I loose my Job you say? Thats what family and friends are for. To help you get back on your feet. That is the way it should be.

 

Here, here! No true disability, no care.

[turbospec29]

Make welfare payout in the form of a "credit card" that cannot be used to buy beer or cigs at any store location, and make large fines for places if they do, just like selling to a minor. Solves the problem as to what people can spend the welfare money on. Would have to work out some sort of check system to pay utilities/rent maybe, but that wouldn't be too hard.

[BloodRed]

I say if you want/need any public assistance, you have to get to the office each week to pick up your check. While there you must submit to a drug test. You fail, no check. Easy as could be.

 

Yes there will be way for people to get around it, but I think it is 100% better than what is going on now.

[99ta]

I think it should have a time limit and limit on the amount of children. you qualify for welfare great, you have 1yr to get job and the welfare ends. You already have 3 kids? thats all you get, better wrap up! We just need stricter restrictions, people know how to work the system.

[Akula]

Why bother with weed, only coke/crack? How about alcohol tests? I would be willing to bet booze plays a bigger role than drugs.

[zeitgeist57]

http://columbus.bizjournals.com/columbus/stories/2009/08/17/daily18.html?surround=lfn

 

I can't help but think such strong numbers are influenced by the lower class, and an increase in welfare recipients. I agree with drug testing for welfare recipients.

[morabu]

Why bother with weed, only coke/crack? How about alcohol tests? I would be willing to bet booze plays a bigger role than drugs.

i would take you up on that bet, there are SHITLOADS more people that do drugs + pills than conservative reports like to think

 

anyway, i say make them pick up their assistance in person, and test them on the spot, no pass = no $

 

Make welfare payout in the form of a "credit card" that cannot be used to buy beer or cigs at any store location, and make large fines for places if they do, just like selling to a minor. Solves the problem as to what people can spend the welfare money on.

people trade food stamps for cash all the time, so having a debit card system will only be a minor inconvenience to these people

 

i have to be clean to make money, you have to be clean to be given free money i make for you!

but i do think assistance should be out there for a set period of time. some people do really need help.

 

What if I loose my Job you say? Thats what family and friends are for. To help you get back on your feet. That is the way it should be.

the types of people that truly need it, won't have family and friends to help them get back on their feet. not everybody has middle class families that have 3 months of emergency reserve cash in the bank, make 60-75k a year, have a $200,000 home w/ 2 new cars, and go on vacations twice a year. so that suggestion won't work!

[Cordell]

I say if you want/need any public assistance, you have to get to the office each week to pick up your check. While there you must submit to a drug test. You fail, no check. Easy as could be.

 

Yes there will be way for people to get around it, but I think it is 100% better than what is going on now.

 

This is a great idea, and might actually be made to work if it was done once a month so that ODJFS can actually go home at night. That would also make it a very good time to check out that they've actually applied for a job.

 

Make welfare payout in the form of a "credit card" that cannot be used to buy beer or cigs at any store location, and make large fines for places if they do, just like selling to a minor. Solves the problem as to what people can spend the welfare money on. Would have to work out some sort of check system to pay utilities/rent maybe, but that wouldn't be too hard.

 

Also a great idea, and rent and utilities can usually be paid with a credit card. I think that if they are on welfare they shouldn't own a home. You think thats cruel? If they can afford a morgage, then fuck em.

 

I think it should have a time limit and limit on the amount of children. you qualify for welfare great, you have 1yr to get job and the welfare ends. You already have 3 kids? thats all you get, better wrap up! We just need stricter restrictions, people know how to work the system.

 

Closing the loop holes in the amount of time people can stay on welfare is great, but how bout this? Cancel it, fuck the deadbeats of the world, cancel it. You have a handicap or serious problem, then we can help you out, otherwise fuck you. I think taxes should be lowered and people should be given a choice to take out some sort of private unemployment insurance. Can't be responsible? Go live in a shelter, or on the street, that'd make people go be productive members of society.

[V8 Beast]

I agree with random drug testing as long as it wont cost more to do it than what we are already paying out.

 

My opinion...

Anyone that receives any type of aid must volunteer or work an appointed job for the city to to make up for every dime they are getting. If you really need that check you wont mind picking up trash on the side of the freeway a few days a week.